Posted by moonpie on May 2, 2008 at 5:45 a.m. (Suggest removal)

Extend it as it was originally proposed. We have built roads and expanded all over Chas. Do the good people of Johns Island think they are exempt from that? At their will the rest of us are suppose to suffer?

Posted by G83 on May 2, 2008 at 8:21 a.m. (Suggest removal)

Will we ever reach a point, as a society, where we finally realize the importance of leaving nature alone whenever possible?

The plan for this extension shows the reckless & careless thought process of the DOT. Rather than emphasizing public transportation, carpooling, or how bout..*gasp*...riding a bicycle through our beatiful town to relieve congestion...the half-witted solution is to fill in wetlands, chop up a park, & kill countless animals while adding a few million more tons of asphalt and concrete to the already unsightly James Island.

Thank you to the Coastal Conservation League for all of your hard work.

Posted by onedeep on May 2, 2008 at 8:56 a.m. (Suggest removal)

Those who are calling for them to build the road - do you realize that it doesn't actually decrease traffic in any significant way on the other roads in the area. Of the several intersections that need help, extending 526 only helps one, and only for a short period of time.

What extending 526 will actually do is put MORE traffic on it and the surrounding roads. 526 into Johns Island will encourage more development, which will result in more people, which results in more traffic.

Perhaps you should actually take some time to educate yourself about the benefits and drawbacks to both the 526 plan and the Coastal Conservation League's plan before just repeating local politician sound bites.

Posted by charlestonian on May 2, 2008 at 8:59 a.m. (Suggest removal)

Building more connected roads on Johns Island is going to resolve commuter traffic issues? Explain how that is going to happen, this is an Island, the majority of people live off the island and there are only two two land bridges onto the island. Without improving the the way to get on and off the island building connecting more roads on the island is worthless. And lets nor forget evacuations, I sure will be happy when I can drive around the island with less traffic during a hurricane when I'm trying to get off it.

Posted by icbmman on May 2, 2008 at 9:10 a.m. (Suggest removal)

Charlestonian, well said. It is clear that the CCL and the SELC have clearly lost any speck of logical thought in their brains. They propose interconnected roads, but as you pointed out, all they will do is bottleneck at the points of entry in each area. Johns Island only has 2 points of entry from the main metro area. James Island is also limited to 3. West Ashley has the most points. However, all these interconnecting roads will do is siphon some traffic away from the main highways...then bottleneck the traffic at the points of entry.

These environmental groups give nothing but pie-in-the-sky solutions, nothing truly logical. In order for interconnecting roads to be truly effective, they will have to be connected to the other areas through construction of more bridges...far more than just one bridge extension of the Mark Clark.

Posted by charlestonian on May 2, 2008 at 9:17 a.m. (Suggest removal)

Strange this new proposal from the CCL and SELC comes out just after Riley's proposal and low and behold it's the same proposal.

CCL and SELC get over it changes are inevitable and they are coming. Go spend your time somewhere more fruitfull like picking up trash around the sea islands or saving some birds.

Posted by crankyyankee on May 2, 2008 at 9:22 a.m. (Suggest removal)

Judging from the growth rate of the Mexican immigrants, you'd better build two!

Posted by onedeep on May 2, 2008 at 9:57 a.m. (Suggest removal)

Early,

1. When has anywhere in the Charleston area ever shown "responsible growth?" Growth here is not managed in any way, and if you think that the development around 526 extension is going to change that in any way, then you are living in a dream world.

2. Once that unmanaged growth starts, any benefits to the 526 extension will be lost, and you will be in the same - if not worse - problem you are in now.

The fact is, the extension is a short term solution. Do you really want them to spend half a billion dollars on a structure that will be irrelevant in 5 years (aka when it opens)?

Posted by charlestonian on May 2, 2008 at 10:10 a.m. (Suggest removal)

Your right it is a short term solution if other things aren't done. So CCL and SELC spend your time fighting for zoning changes. The only way to truly preserve the islands is to change the zoning to allow say a minimum of say .75 or 1 acre lots. Do you really think developers aren't going to come in a build thousands of houses on .1 acre lots if 526 isn't extended?

Do something that will benefit everyone and not penalize the working class that commutes every day, get the zoning changed and stop fighting about 526.

Posted by longview on May 2, 2008 at 10:28 a.m. (Suggest removal)

This is a vital discussion and the outcome of the proposed 526 extension will shape our city's future. It is understandable that there are many differing viewpoints and, in the interest of maintaining this important topic, I hope that all on this board can resist bashing one another and share ideas.

Personally, I believe that Charleston should focus its growth more on the urban core of the city. Improving the existing infrastructure and allowing for more density downtown makes more sense than opening up John's island to further development. As another disclaimer, I do believe that the result of a 526 extension would be more development on John's. Is this a bad thing? Honestly, it is not for me to say, only I see better and more sustainable ways to grow. There has frequently been talk of the necessity and inevitability of growth. Of course, this is valid. If we do not grow, we cease to be competitive. But is the extension onto John's the right move? The way I see it, the people of John's, Kiawah, Seabrook and Wadmalaw all live on sea islands by choice. It is a sacrifice that they make, for better and worse, to have only two ways on and off the island. Arguing that the extension is a solution to the traffic problems on Savannah highway couldn't more off the mark. It is at best a band aid solution and at worst, could ruin an important part of what makes Charleston such a wonderful place to live. I've been here my whole life and welcome newcomers and growth. Lets just do it responsibly. Convince me that 526 is responsible and I will support it, right now, I just don't see it that way. As it is, the people of John’s ought to be in control of their destiny. If the extension proceeds, then I sincerely hope that the local government will have the foresight to change the zoning laws and prohibit the kind of development that has occurred on River road. I believe everyone on this discussion board would agree that that kind of growth is bad for us. Keep the comments coming. It couldn’t be more important.

Posted by icbmman on May 2, 2008 at 10:39 a.m. (Suggest removal)

Actually, charlestonian, the appropriate zoning for Johns Island is already in place, at least in the areas that are in the city limits. It is important to enforce the current zoning laws and avoid changing them to accomodate a mass of thousands of homes per neighborhood.

You're also correct about I-526 being a short term solution, and it is a necessary one. As soon as this highway is completed (as well as a complete widening of the Mark Clark to 6 lanes), plans need to be developed that will incorporate a mass transit system (either light rail, monorail, or monobeam) and that will initiate widening of our current highways.

I've said this many times: infrastructure improvement has to be a multi-faceted approach in order for it to be effective.

Posted by icbmman on May 2, 2008 at 10:42 a.m. (Suggest removal)

Longview, what do you need to see in order to be convinced that the extension will bring responsible growth?

I would suggest to check the city and county zonings for the properties on the island. For the most part, the city has rural zoning in its jurisdictional area, but I can't say the same thing about the county.

The zoning is there in many areas of the island; it just needs to be enforced through the years.

Posted by longview on May 2, 2008 at 10:58 a.m. (Suggest removal)

Thanks for the suggestion on actually looking up the zoning. Will do so. I only assumed that the zoning was too loose due to the River Road developments. I suppose that this could be lack of enforcement? Can't say I'd be surprised by that, right?

As for the extension, I am just fearful of it having the same effect of simply bringing more cars and more people without real, long term benefit. I whole heartedly agree that, as you put, we need a multi-faceted approach. Commuter rail is essential for example. I think that we should at least consider the proposal that was brought by the CCL. If fact, their idea might work best with both an extension and a series of cross island roads/improved local infrastructure. I look forward to seeing their ideas in more detail. As, Im sure you will bring up, the expansion of roads on the island, could in fact bring even more development. Who is to say? My opinion is that we really, really consider the long term implications here though. As a kid growing up on the peninsula, I've seen Mt. P grow to ridiculous proportion. The thought of the same going south of us scares the hell out of me. Enough talk about "evacuation plans". What about just evacuating out of the city on Friday afternoon only to sit in two hours of traffic before you can get to any place rural. Same could be said of the reverse commute….
We do agree, I hope, that the current model for development on John's is poor. Lets change that and we might have a city worth living in 20 years from now.

Posted by G83 on May 2, 2008 at 11:35 a.m. (Suggest removal)

ColdBeer,

The level of environmental responsibility of individual businesses is up to them to decide.

When it comes to governmental organizations and tax dollars is when it should be determined by the people whether or not to build based on moral and ethical responsibilities.

Posted by icbmman on May 2, 2008 at 12:21 p.m. (Suggest removal)

Longview, indeed, I think it makes absolute sense to build the interconnected roads in conjunction with the extension and infrastructure for a commuter rail. Maybe an option would be to build a light rail/monorail/monobeam system that traverses the middle of the new extension? At least they could build the extension in preparation for that project.

As far as the River Road developments: parts of River Road are in the county and parts of it are in the city. I would be interested in seeing which government agency is not enforcing the zoning with those projects. Maybe it's both. Either way, it's obvious that these agencies sometimes do not enforce their zoning...and that allows more housing to be built. Unless that zoning allows for a sparse amount of units per acre, which is possible.

Posted by longview on May 2, 2008 at 12:38 p.m. (Suggest removal)

Here is the zoning map. Most of the land on River is either mun (Municipal) or R4 (Single Family Residential Suburban). I would guess that the uncheck developments are in the mun zones, and unfortunately there are many, many more acres with that designation. I haven't found definitions for either zone yet but will post if I come across it.

http://ccgisweb.charlestoncounty.org/web...

"Mangaged growth" is the lacking terminology here. One fellow, when interviewed about the extension said, "I'd rather sit in my car in dead stopped traffic on the extension than on Savannah highway because the view is much better" If opinions like that inform our direction, we are truely screwed.

West Ashely, Mt Pleasant and Summerville have decided their fates, and I don't think anyone wants John's to suffer similarly and furthermore, I don't believe we should look at the 526 extension as "Charleston's right to natural growth". The city should create jobs not bow to whims of rural developers - how many homes in west ashley and surrounding areas are now vacant? Honestly, the next guy who comes to town, buys 250 acres of farm land, subdivides, sells enough to clear his debt and then hauls ass back to Charlotte and leaves a mess ought to strung up. We cannot let that kind of stuff happen any more. Develop on the peninsula where infrastucture already exists. Promote urban living and localized economy (ie, ride your bike to work). Invest in business and economic growth through job creation other than home building. When Chs hits 1 million people and our economy is in good shape, then we will have to look to expansion on John's island. To do so at this point is very premature in my opinion.

Posted by icbmman on May 2, 2008 at 12:50 p.m. (Suggest removal)

Thanks for providing that, longview. The only problem with that map, however, is that it doesn't give us a clear picture of what is in the city limits and what is not. The municipal or R4 designation is probably allowed because River Road is in the urban growth boundary.

From what I know of the city limits on Johns Island, some of those zonings are indeed in the city, but upper parts of River Road are not. So, we've got typical jurisdictional mismanagement, and we've got the county not controlling anything.

Managed growth is the key when building this I-526 extension, and I believe the county is not even practicing this concept, while the city approaches it half-heartedly in some respects. Again, thanks for getting that map.

Posted by icbmman on May 2, 2008 at 2:08 p.m. (Suggest removal)

Early, Explorer should have a zoom icon appear on that image when you click on the link. Give it a few minutes, then click that icon...it will zoom it in for you.

Posted by PalmettoDP on May 2, 2008 at 2:39 p.m. (Suggest removal)

The CCL raises legitimate concerns about how growth will be managed on Johns Island, but I still believe the extention should be built. SCDOT should consider using variable tolling to ensure traffic on the extension remains free flowing - in other words, tolls rise and fall to respond to traffic demand. Drivers who don't want to pay the toll could take a longer free route. There are now toll transponders people can buy and attach to their windshields, so there would not be a need for large toll booths. I realize tolling will never happen because the project is funded - but it's an idea I thought I would throw out there. (I would be against doing this to existing roads, by the way.)

Posted by icbmman on May 2, 2008 at 3:22 p.m. (Suggest removal)

PalmettoDP, toll is a dangerous word around this city and this state. :) Many ideas even using that word have literally been trampled to death.

Posted by longview on May 2, 2008 at 4:24 p.m. (Suggest removal)

The link at the beginning of the article is interesting (for those opposed to the CCL, at least familiarize yourself with their argument).

http://www.newwaytowork.com/index.html

They also provide a link to SC DOT which has more information (a little less biased) and provides a commentary function.

http://www.dot.state.sc.us/I526/default....

Glad to see the commentary and concern. We should have a little faith - with open discussion and insights we can arrive at the right solution. "Build the damn thing" might end up being the best option but I think that we should approach it with as much consideration of the past, present and future of this area as possible.

Have a good weekend. This posting has cost me a half day's work and now its miller time.

Posted by Siri on May 2, 2008 at 10:44 p.m. (Suggest removal)

I may not remember this correctly but I think 526 came before James Island county park. If memory serves 526 was always supposed to expand in the direction of the islands.

Whose trying to change horses in the middle of this race?
Maybe I'm just suffering from C.R.S. syndrome.

Posted by KiawahIslandGirl on November 16, 2008 at 2:14 a.m. (Suggest removal)

I think for safetys sake and in cases of hurricane evaculation for johns island residence this would be good.
i don't believe there would be a traffic problem. the only people heading this way either live here or are working here. it would be much safer to drive if we had a exit road as close as River Rd.
driving to and from here on a daily basis to Mt. Pleasant, Daniel Island, N. Charleston is very challenging.
we need to have something done. or maybe a ferry boat option from out here off of kiawah, seabrook, johns island would be good to reduce road hazards and gasoline consumption.
I've often thought that a boat that could take people to work and school in the daniel island and down to the college or whatever would be a good meeting people would really be very helpful.
has anyone else thought about this?
then there is a monorail system. all electric, like Atlantas Marta. Very Quick, quiet and safe. it would cut down on pollution, accidents and be a very beautiful ride each day.
I hope only the best comes out of this. I'm sure it would create many new fine jobs.