Defendants in gambling sting determined to go to trialPoker players still waiting By Schuyler Kropf (Contact)
The Post and Courier
Monday, March 10, 2008
MOUNT PLEASANT — Almost two years after a poker game was broken up by Mount Pleasant police, some of the more vocal members of the group still haven't resolved their cases. One of the players contends the delay is because town officials don't want the spectacle of a jury trial, in which he plans to defend the game of poker against what he calls South Carolina's outdated anti-gambling laws. "Mount Pleasant, they don't want to be the stepping stone into changing this," said Bob Chimento, the unofficial spokesman for the group. Town Attorney Ira Grossman, however, contends the delay is not out of the ordinary. About two-thirds of those ticketed that night have been dealt with in municipal court pleas, he said, adding that prosecutions take time, especially when many of the defendants don't have lawyers. Of the cases that have cleared the court docket, some paid gambling ticket fines of as little as $100. In April 2006, police busted a Texas Hold 'Em tournament at a Glencoe Street home they'd been watching for some time. Fifteen to 20 vehicles were visiting several days a week before the raid, authorities said. The game had been advertised via an Internet meet-up site set up specifically to attract poker enthusiasts from around the Lowcountry. Players paid a $20 "buy-in" to join the game, with a percentage of the proceeds going to the house. Only about eight of the approximately 24 people involved lived in Mount Pleasant. The others hailed from Charleston, James Island, Summerville, Hanahan and North Charleston, police said. Authorities seized nearly $6,000 and a small quantity of drugs. Chimento said the five remaining members of his players' group "are bound and determined to go to trial on this," no matter how long it takes. They are getting help and advice from lawyers from other parts of the country who are pro-poker advocates, he said. Boosted by the national craze, multiple efforts have surfaced in South Carolina in the past few years to legalize poker, which is illegal under a 200-year-old law that prohibits dice and card games. The most recent pro-poker defeat in the Statehouse came in just the past few days, when a bill that would let nonprofits hold poker games was killed in committee. Grossman last week said he could not comment directly on any single case. But he noted the majority of the prosecutions from the poker raid have been settled. "Driving under the influence and criminal domestic violence are the top priorities in municipal court," he said. "They always come first." He added: "I'll decide if it's worth the taxpayers' expense to go forward on these few left who were given a ticket for gambling." Reach Schuyler Kropf at skropf @postandcourier.com or 937-5551. |
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Comments
This article has 38 comment(s)
Posted by theronce on March 10, 2008 at 8:07 a.m. (Suggest removal)
Does anyone really think that the legislature will allow anything to cut into their cash-cow, the lottery. Don't hold your breath.
Posted by highclass on March 10, 2008 at 8:41 a.m. (Suggest removal)
Another group of Mt. P people thinking that they are above the law. The rules are the rules follow them. Cry babies.
Posted by algorelost on March 10, 2008 at 9:09 a.m. (Suggest removal)
I hope I get called for this jury because I will rule not guilty. It is a joke that Mt. P is even going to spend tax payer money for a jury trial over a $20 buy in poker game.
Posted by ColdBeer on March 10, 2008 at 9:44 a.m. (Suggest removal)
Thinking that poker should be legal and thinking that these men are not guilty are two totally different things. As the law states right now, poker is illegal. These men are guilty. Breaking the law is not the right way to go about getting a law changed. Ruling not guilty as a jury member when you know for a fact that they are guilty is just irresponsible.
Posted by 5thGenerationLocal on March 10, 2008 at 9:46 a.m. (Suggest removal)
I serioulsy cannot believe that this is still going on. While I love MtP, they really need to let this go. There are many more serious issues out there to worry about instead of a poker game.
BTW, if this law was taken as it is written, there would be no Monopoly, no UNO, no nothing. Cards and dice are basically illegal.
Posted by Thomas1776 on March 10, 2008 at 9:47 a.m. (Suggest removal)
Not guilty! If they are found guilty, then every single player of the SC Educational lottery is guilty, too!
Mt. Pleasant officials are clearly violating the US Constitution by delaying trial and must remove themselves from office for such. The SC Supreme Court had issued an executive Order stating, in part, that all cases must come to trial within 365 days of arrest.
Posted by wpc3iop on March 10, 2008 at 10:02 a.m. (Suggest removal)
algorelost: Well said...it's a lot easier to police gamblers, speeders, smokers and seat belt violators than the real criminals!
Posted by RTC on March 10, 2008 at 10:06 a.m. (Suggest removal)
highclass, the gamblers were from all over. You are constantly bashing Mt. Pleasant residents for no apparent reason. Stop the stereotyping.
The only reason the government gets upset over these poker games is because they are not getting their cut.
Games like this have been going on in people's homes for centuries, so what's the big deal?
Gambling is gambling. no matter what the stakes are.
Posted by forget on March 10, 2008 at 10:09 a.m. (Suggest removal)
Oh no, I guess we broke the law in my house Sat. night. We had a wild poker game with about a hundred pennies changing hands. Will the 11 yr. olds be charged as adults? Will I be charged as an accessory? Maybe contributing to the delinquency of a minor? I think I'll ring up a lawyer before they come and haul us off....
Posted by RTC on March 10, 2008 at 10:16 a.m. (Suggest removal)
LOL@forget. My brother used to play penny poker with me when I was little. He cleaned out my piggy bank, the creep.
Posted by TP on March 10, 2008 at 10:18 a.m. (Suggest removal)
And now churches want to allow games of chance. Didn't old JC f-up the temple back in the day when it got out of hand like that? Stinkin' hypocrites.
But to hear any of you traditionally conservative posters say these guys should be busted b/c of something they were doing in their OWN HOUSE?? What is the role private property rights in all this, bo?
Posted by bigwhip on March 10, 2008 at 10:32 a.m. (Suggest removal)
I'm betting that on any given weekend there are two dozen or more poker games going on in Mt. Pleasant. This is not about the gambling or state law. This is about an over zealous police department. The police could have gone over there and told the home owner to shut it down or else. It would have gone away and all this negative press with it.
Posted by algorelost on March 10, 2008 at 10:35 a.m. (Suggest removal)
Cold Beer,
If a jury feels a law is unjust they can rule against it. As the law is written every memeber sitting on that jury hhas more than likely at one time viloated the law. Since the law bands games of monopoly, go fish, old maid and uno.
Posted by forget on March 10, 2008 at 10:39 a.m. (Suggest removal)
Oh no, not monopoly too!. How about Scrabble????
Posted by TP on March 10, 2008 at 10:47 a.m. (Suggest removal)
Hallelujah!! It's a miracle! The Lord wants us to gamble!
http://www.charleston.net/news/2008/feb/...
Posted by ColdBeer on March 10, 2008 at 10:48 a.m. (Suggest removal)
Jury directions from the judge usually define the law and direct a jury that they must vote not guilty if they feel the law has not been broken, or that they must vote guilty if they feel the law has been broken. I've never heard a judge state "If you disagree with the law, you can vote how ever you want". Playing a game of poker at the house is one of the violations like speeding. Many people do it. If you do get caught somehow, you pay the fine. Most house games aren't advertised on the internet and most don't have this many cars showing up night after night. This was a little more than a friendly poker game.
I really don't understand why it's against the law, but, it is. For now anyway.
I doubt that the law against dice and card games applies to games that don't involve betting real money. I think we're all safe playing Monopoly.
Posted by onedeep on March 10, 2008 at 11:02 a.m. (Suggest removal)
Actually, that is not entirely true, ColdBeer.
All juries in the nation have the ability to say that while a law was broken, it is an unfair law, and should be overturned. It is called "jury nullification." Judges and lawyers usually do not mention it, but it is a right that every jury has.
I encourage you to familiarize yourself with it now, and especially if you ever serve on a jury.
Posted by Larz13 on March 10, 2008 at 11:02 a.m. (Suggest removal)
I wonder if the police are getting ready to bust all of those "March Madness" pools that will be starting next week?
Posted by greener1 on March 10, 2008 at 11:35 a.m. (Suggest removal)
So when I talked to a Sled agent in Columbia last week and asked him about poker machines-his attitude was well, there everywhere and we get what we can. We have a warehouse full of them you wouldn't believe. My point is, the police are busting poker parties and the poker machines are still all over the place. Every private bar in Goose Creek has them. Maybe if these guys would literally pay some cops off, they would to fly under the radar. Same for Pappy's in Hanahan, you need to PAY to play. As for myself, I am serious about opening a bar up and put machines in it, why not, it's not like I would be busted. Ask the old good ole boys in G.C..
Posted by KidYendor on March 10, 2008 at 11:38 a.m. (Suggest removal)
I am all for jury nullification of crappy arcane laws that stranglehold peaceful people. I would be proud to participate in a law nullifying jury to say "not guilty" in cases like this. Peaceful assemblies of people in homes should not be raided. Save your SWAT home raids for arresting kidnappers, bank robbers, thieves, and murderers.
Posted by greener1 on March 10, 2008 at noon (Suggest removal)
So when I talked to a Sled agent in Columbia last week and asked him about poker machines-his attitude was well, there everywhere and we get what we can. We have a warehouse full of them you wouldn't believe. My point is, the police are busting poker parties and the poker machines are still all over the place. Every private bar in Goose Creek has them. Maybe if these guys would literally pay some cops off, they would to fly under the radar. Same for Pappy's in Hanahan, you need to PAY to play. As for myself, I am serious about opening a bar up and put machines in it, why not, it's not like I would be busted. Ask the old good ole boys in G.C..
Posted by JohnS on March 10, 2008 at 12:04 p.m. (Suggest removal)
You can't hold a private high stakes card game without a lic. The state will not get their share and no one will issue the 1099 form if the winnings are over $600.00.
The game was also at a residence which is not zoned for commerical use.
The dealers at the game were more than likely not union members so the national gaming standards were not being done.
Posted by justjerry on March 10, 2008 at 12:06 p.m. (Suggest removal)
I am glad that all of the other crime in Mount Pleasant has been solved and that they can devote their manpower to victimless crimes. I wonder if some of the officers who were put on this case (and stakeout) had been doing something different like talking to kids from Wando if the jails might have a few less people in them today.
The laws in this state need to be changed. A poker game in anyone's house is nobody's business unless it becomes a business, which there are laws to address that already. A poker game hurts people just as much as a game of Monopoly or Dungeons and Dragons.
Also, a poker tournament played for charity does not hurt anyone and SLED's intervention to make sure that did not happen was silly as well. Like I said, I am really happy that all of the other crime that occurs in this state that has people getting victimized either physically or financially has been eliminated and we can worry about people playing cards.
Posted by RTC on March 10, 2008 at 12:33 p.m. (Suggest removal)
In April 2006, police busted a Texas Hold 'Em tournament at a Glencoe Street home they'd been watching for some time. Fifteen to 20 vehicles were visiting several days a week before the raid, authorities said.
Chances are the neighbors were complaining about the number of cars on the street several times a week. This was probably what started the whole investigation.
Posted by captivated on March 10, 2008 at 12:37 p.m. (Suggest removal)
So, does this mean I can't play Poker Deluxe on Direct TV anymore? Will they be closing down the Bingo parlor on Dorchester road? Will big brother ever stop meddling in everyone's personal life? Anybody wanna BET?
Posted by ColdBeer on March 10, 2008 at 1:37 p.m. (Suggest removal)
justjerry, the article did not mention anything about any money going to charity.
onedeep, I'd heard the term "jury nulification" before, but didn't really understand what it meant. I've done some quick research on the net and found you are correct. Very interesting reading. Thanks!
Posted by georgebushsux on March 10, 2008 at 1:57 p.m. (Suggest removal)
Another example of how much they waste our tax payers dollars! How many hour$ did the cops watch this particular house before they raided the game? How many hour$ has the local law enforcement, laywers , and administration folks spent on this? I wonder how many of them beat the drums about being fiscally responsible with our dollars.
A 200 year old law? You can't gamble with cards or dice but please folks run on down to your local store and buy as many lottery tickets?
Just another example of the typical hypocrites of South Kakalakey
Posted by devster on March 10, 2008 at 2:01 p.m. (Suggest removal)
highclass said: "Another group of Mt. P people thinking that they are above the law. The rules are the rules follow them. Cry babies."
I don't think the accused believe that they are above the law; they believe that they have the right to a jury trial just like anyone else. You are allowed to defend yourself.
Posted by algorelost on March 10, 2008 at 2:44 p.m. (Suggest removal)
Did Mt P ever solve the case of the female pharmacist who was shot? They must have if they have time for this.
Posted by scnative4ever on March 10, 2008 at 2:44 p.m. (Suggest removal)
georgebushsux,
your post are like an obama/clinton ticket. Loosers!!!
Posted by candygirl on March 10, 2008 at 2:55 p.m. (Suggest removal)
"Illegal Gambling" is "Illegal Gambling"
Why should the law apply to some and not others?
" Bet more than poker was going on "
Posted by flinsc on March 10, 2008 at 3:39 p.m. (Suggest removal)
They aren't getting tax money from the poker games. That is what it boils down to. That is why internet poker is not allowed. The government said that the internet poker provides ways for terrorist funding. What a joke. Betting on horses is allowed online. Why? Because it can be taxed. In everything involving the government, follow the money. There is a reason this state has horrible employment and is still in the 1800's. At 1 point Charleston was the 4th largest city. Too many good ole boys running things. This state is getting left behind in a lot of things. Worry about education, crime, and devolvement. Who cares when a bunch of people are playing poker. Wake up old timers
Posted by Mayor on March 10, 2008 at 6:32 p.m. (Suggest removal)
SCNATIVE4EVER spells like he;sbeen here a long time.
Posted by Mayor on March 10, 2008 at 6:34 p.m. (Suggest removal)
I can't type
Posted by justjerry on March 10, 2008 at 6:57 p.m. (Suggest removal)
ColdBeer, I was referring to the poker tournament that Richard Todd had arranged and was to be at the North Charleston Convention Center. It was a very successful event the year before and raised a large amount for charity. When they began to set it up for a second time SLED informed the Coliseum and Performing Arts Center that if there was "gambling" (there was no money to be won, just token prizes) that they would pull the liquor permits for all events for violating the gaming laws.
Posted by mdtpace on March 10, 2008 at 8:37 p.m. (Suggest removal)
I saw the Mt Pleasant PD "SWAT" team at Moe's eating lunch the other day and I have been trying to figure out why MT P even needs a SWAT team instead of just using the Sheriff's SWAT team if the need arises. I guess they need it to bust up these dangerous poker games. Important work they are doing, policing neighborhood poker games. They should get a armored personnel carrier in case someone won't open the door next time.
Posted by RTC on March 10, 2008 at 8:44 p.m. (Suggest removal)
mdtpace, we need the SWAT team because of people like my neighbor. She causes such hate and discontent that a riot is going to break out soon. She sees one child in her yard...call the police. One loose dog...call the police.
One firecracker goes off...call the police. :)
Posted by BUSCH2003 on April 3, 2008 at 6:16 p.m. (Suggest removal)
If South Carolina (or Mt Pleasant), is prosecuting those who play cards under a 200 year old law, they are selective in choosing their defendents. How often have they chosen to prosecute Bridge players and other card games carried out at the local country clubs through out the low country.
If you're rich enough to belong to the country club or the social elite, you don't have to worry about being prosecuted. Let the working class populist try to have some of the popular entertainment craze of the day and you throw them in jail.
Have you done a sweep of the local firehouse or police station or their convention sites recently to ensure they are following the letter and spirit of the law.