Posted by geekguy2008 on June 27, 2008 at 2:12 a.m. (Suggest removal)

It's a "sad" day for Charleston when we get a new medical facility that will help people be well and get necessary medical care???? And one that will be a little more affordable....is a SAD day?? What a joke the catholic crutch is.

Posted by ForPnC on June 27, 2008 at 4:06 a.m. (Suggest removal)

A medical facility for the poor so that they can receive proper care. PP isn't about abortions. There is free care to be had for both males and females. Birth control, counseling, and advice. Only narrow minds wouldn't allow this.

Yes, PP gets our tax dollars but it's nice to nice that it's going to an organization that's really trying to do some good.

Geekguy - You're right, what a joke the catholic crutch is.

Posted by Mayor on June 27, 2008 at 5:17 a.m. (Suggest removal)

GeeGuy and ForPnC should have been aborted. Do Baptists approve of abortion? Do Mormons approve? Do Muslims approve?

You obviously do, so you're way more moral and smarter than all of us. Good for you two.

Posted by moonpie on June 27, 2008 at 6:25 a.m. (Suggest removal)

Please teach birth CONTROL! It makes me sick seeing teenage girls walking around with babies stuck under their arms. They're doomed to a life of section 8 housing and living on welfare (us).

Posted by DenmarkVesey1822 on June 27, 2008 at 6:28 a.m. (Suggest removal)

The founder of Planned Parenthood (Margaret Sanger) was a proponent of eugenics. Planned Parenthood had some shady beginnings.

Posted by ForPnC on June 27, 2008 at 6:41 a.m. (Suggest removal)

Abortions are not paid by your tax dollars. If a woman wants one then she has to come up with the money herself. Why do you think there are so many unwanted kids out there?

Educate yourselves, folks.

Posted by lillycollette on June 27, 2008 at 7:19 a.m. (Suggest removal)

There’s seven billion plus of us on this planet now. If someone doesn’t do something about our ever increasing population then that infamous “A” word is going to change from -- “Abortion” to “Academic”.

I can’t personally support abortion—but I can’t criticize others who have used it either. The most I can do is support educating people to think beyond biological urges.

Posted by Tammie on June 27, 2008 at 7:21 a.m. (Suggest removal)

Now I know why the group of older ladies I saw on Cannon Street last weekend were protesting. I am pro-life for myself but I refuse to tell any woman what they should and shouldn't do with their bodies. And I don't think PP does abortions at their clinics, they refer the patients that want or need to get it out to other clnics in the area.

Posted by theronce on June 27, 2008 at 7:34 a.m. (Suggest removal)

Well, aren't we finally making progress now that we can better promote infanticide. Surely this will help bring SC off the bottom of some kind of list. We really need to try and lead the country by expanding the program to allow suicide. It is their own body after all.

Posted by Tammie on June 27, 2008 at 7:36 a.m. (Suggest removal)

#1-you're right. I remember when I had my pregnancy test done so that I could get written proof of pregnancy for my job, when I was leaving, the nurse who did the test on me gave me a packet with things like nutritional info, etc. Then she gave me a pamphlet about abortion (which for ME was not an option). I told her that I wasn't planning on having one but the requirement for THEIR facility was that they had to give every woman this pamphlet. So I read it. I about damn near passed out. How could some women put themselves through that?? It went into graphic detail, as far as what you'd see and hear, etc. Like I said, pro-life is my stance but I won't tell any woman that what THEY are doing to themself or their unborn is wrong. I won't have that on my conscience.

Posted by shoelaces on June 27, 2008 at 7:39 a.m. (Suggest removal)

Maybe they can dip into the SC "education" lottery money for funding.....everyone else does.

I am always amazed when someone says they accidentally got pregnant. I was married for 10 years before I purposefully got pregnant. In this day and age there are no more excuses for unwanted pregnancies. However, in this day and age we still have the cycle continuing especially in the poverty level of society. But they don't seem to have a problem with it. They seem to think it's OK and normal for teens to have babies.

We can only hope educating children will help but unfortunately parents are not doing that. Schools can't and shouldn't educate about sex. It's a vicious cycle. But as long as certain parts of society don't think it's a problem then it will continue.

If PP can prevent a girl from choosing to become pregnant then that is great. It's a shame it takes tax dollars to do that. It should only take the price of a box of condoms.

Posted by mansejolly on June 27, 2008 at 7:44 a.m. (Suggest removal)

Great, first I see that the ACLU is coming to town, and now I read that now, every time I go down the block to my favorite three restaurants--places that so far have been helping improve the neighborhood--I'll have to stare at abortion clinic while i'm eating. Just wonderful.

Of course, since the peninsula has become, for the large part, culturally indistinquishible from any other vapid cosmopolitan hellhole, I shouldn't be surprised.

Posted by Tammie on June 27, 2008 at 7:45 a.m. (Suggest removal)

Shoelaces, when I was in middle and high school, they used to scare the bejesus out of us regarding pregnancy. My grandmother scared me one night by showing me what natural childbirth looked like. Hence, me being older and having a baby. But some of the ignoramuses I went to school with have the nerve to say to me "You're kinda old having a baby..", I'm only 31. No jackazzes, I wasn't laying up with every man that thought I was cute and riding the horse bareback. JMO

Posted by NativeSon on June 27, 2008 at 7:56 a.m. (Suggest removal)

Finally, the bastion of immorality has reached Charleston along with adulterated book stores and the anti American organization, American Criminal Liberties Union.

Next thing you know, the US Chamber of Commerce will want to do away with all American workers and replace them with an all illegal work force.

Viva left wing liberal democrats!

Posted by shoelaces on June 27, 2008 at 8:01 a.m. (Suggest removal)

Tammie
Having gone to one of those fine "church" schools there wasn't much taught to us at school. My parents weren't very helpful either. By high school I think I had figured it all out...thanks to Judy Blume LOL.

And 31 is not too old. I was 35 when my first child was born!! And I am so happy I waited THAT long.

But the difference is that we actually take care of our children and provide them with all that they need and want. At 25 I would have been a good mom too. In the homes of children of poverty they are not always being cared for the way children should be taken care of. They are not always taught right from wrong, respect for authority, or educated properly. And the worst part is that they don't always know what they are doing is wrong because everyone in their society is doing the same thing. If everyone is doing it then how can it be wrong?

I can only hope and pray that what I teach my children and provide for them will get them as far as possible in life before making any major life changing decisions. But again, that is the difference between being raised up right and just breeding babies.

I know there are options other than abortion but if bringing a helpless life into the world and not taking care of it is the choice then I am not sure that is always the best choice.

Posted by greyrider on June 27, 2008 at 8:07 a.m. (Suggest removal)

I wonder if anyone has the guts to comment on this. Why do atheist doctors refuse to perform abortions on moral grounds?

And yes, I'll say it. This is no different than what happened at Dachau, Auschwitz and Treblinka. It is the mass murdering of millions of innocent people and they hide behind fancy wording and clever phrases.

"Oh, we're just looking for the final answer to the Jewish problem"

"we just believe a woman has the right to choose"

A murder by any other name is still a murder.

Posted by berthelot on June 27, 2008 at 8:13 a.m. (Suggest removal)

Great, so all of Charleston's unwanted or abandoned children can be dropped off at the homes of:

Steve Gajdosik
Mouth of the South
Tripsa

What, you don't want to take care of them?

Well, you can't force their birth parents to magically become responsible.

You'll just have to wait until they grow up ignored and abused and become a rapist or killer at which point you will demand their speedy execution.

Also, if you haven't noticed we have a global problem with population. Get your noses out of that 2000 year old book and take a critical look at the real world for once.

Posted by scienceguy on June 27, 2008 at 8:14 a.m. (Suggest removal)

I am not going to get into a historical debate about either “the evils of Margaret Sanger” or the “evils of the Catholic Church.” However, I urge everyone who read this article who opposes the presence of Planned Parenthood in Charleston to carefully reread the article. If you do, you will see that Planned Parenthood is not going to offer abortion services in Charleston.

If Planned Parenthood starts to perform abortions in Charleston, I may join Tripsa and the group of protesters outside of the clinic. However, what we need to begin to do in South Carolina is to understand that Science and Religion are not mortal enemies. Additionally, we need to understand that our young folks are in serious need of the services offered by Planned Parenthood and that the misinformation and lies being promulgated in our schools at taxpayer expense is leading to a crisis in South Carolina. To illisustrate my point, I recommend the following articles:

http://www.utne.com/print-article.aspx?i...
http://www.miamiherald.com/opinion/other...
http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2005/05/1...
http://www.ethicsdaily.com/article_detai...

Posted by greyrider on June 27, 2008 at 8:23 a.m. (Suggest removal)

berthelot, if more people lived by that 2000 year old book, there wouldn't be a lot of the problems that exist. Even Ben Franklin, who denied the deity of Christ said that Christian principles could transform the world for the better. Also, please come into the real world yourself. There is no "population problem". As Cardinal Arinze once said, "if you have a banquet, and you don't have enough food for your guests, you don't solve the problem by killing the guests, you make more food" If you turn the entire state of Texas into a giant housing plan with standard size lots, you could move the entire population of the world to Texas.

Posted by berthelot on June 27, 2008 at 8:25 a.m. (Suggest removal)

Greyrider, that is the stupidest thing I have ever heard. You speak for Atheist doctors? Maybe you once read about an Atheist doctor or two that objected on moral grounds and then made the assumption that this is a common thing.

I once met a Christian who had an IQ of 60 and had a steady stream of drool coming out of the side of his mouth. Am I to assume that most Christians fit this description? Of course not, dope.

You see this as murder and compare it to WWII concentration camps. You give the impression that you believe all life is precious.

What about the 500,000 to 1,000,000* Iraqis that have been killed since 2003 thanks to us? That is life. Is it not precious? Protest that.

*We don't keep an exact count, these are the best estimates available.

Posted by berthelot on June 27, 2008 at 8:27 a.m. (Suggest removal)

I'm not a liberal and I am not anti-death penalty. I am for LEAVING PEOPLE ALONE WITHOUT IMPOSING MY MORALS ON THEM.

Posted by Horratio on June 27, 2008 at 8:31 a.m. (Suggest removal)

I'm right-You're wrong.
No I'm right-You're wrong.

I'm right-You're wrong.
No I'm right-You're wrong.

No, I'm right-You're wrong.
No I'm right-You're wrong.

No I'm right-You're wrong.
No I'm right-You're wrong.

..............Geez

Posted by grannyofsix on June 27, 2008 at 8:32 a.m. (Suggest removal)

I am pro life buts that is JMO having babies before you are ready is a crime in itself as we have seen here in the paper mothers unable to secure sitters while they work let the children stay in the hot car and well we know what happens.
I am one of the women that had their first child at 16 and the fourth and last child at 23. I was married and we raised our children to god fearing productive adults with fantastic jobs who are also have raised and still raising great kids. I also would never tell another women what she should or shouldn't do about her pregnancy. this is between her and god.

Posted by msplacedinsc on June 27, 2008 at 8:36 a.m. (Suggest removal)

For all of you "na-sayers" on abortion, I would suggest that you all go down and picket PP for the right to adopt those children who may be aborted? Put your money up and go and convince a woman to carry that fetus full-term and adopt them instead of sitting behind a computer. Oh God No! It's easier for you "drum beaters" to tell people what they need to do with thier lives. I don't care what you may believe, it's not your choice. Get Over It! Why is it the "right-wingers" of this country can't seen to let people live their lives the way they choose? What's next telling people what clothes they should wear and car to drive and houses they should live in?
If this is such an important issue than
why aren't you "holy rollers" outside the hospital patting folks on the back or have a sign in your hands congragulating parents with new borns?

Can't spare the time?

Posted by Ayarkay on June 27, 2008 at 8:42 a.m. (Suggest removal)

This is great news - SC is so far behind other states in educating young people about STDs and pregnancy. Giving people low-cost access to information and birth control is a wonderful thing for our city.

Posted by greyrider on June 27, 2008 at 8:47 a.m. (Suggest removal)

Under Hitler, German women were forbidden to have abortions but Jewish women were never prosecuted for having abortions Hmmmmm?

Let's have biology class here. Sex creates babies. If you don't want babies, don't have sex. (sorry, I don't mean to flaunt my intelligence here)

I admit I don't know the current statistics, but 13 years ago, approximately 93% of doctors capable (trained) to perform abortions refused (not one or two). Granted, an old stat, but I seriously doubt much has changed.

Leave people alone??? That works in some instances, but we are talking murder here.

Posted by LadyTarHeel on June 27, 2008 at 9:07 a.m. (Suggest removal)

I didn't see anywhere in the article that stated that Planned Parenthood would offer abortions. I think at this point it is based on prevention and education, which I don't get because the Health Department offers the same services for free to young girls (trust me I've been there). And it depends on when you have an abortion to consider it murder. Before a certain time point, the baby does not have a heart beat nor can it sense pain. That's the scientist in me;however, I would not ever have an abortion because that's my choice for my self. I will not judge any one who has decided that an abortion is right for them. I knew some girls who had abortions in high school and it was really difficult for them to make that choice. Screaming at them and telling them that they are murderers is not the way to make them change their minds. EDUCATION IS THE KEY!!!

Posted by shoelaces on June 27, 2008 at 9:13 a.m. (Suggest removal)

The article says, "Initially, the center will not offer abortion services, officials said, pointing out that abortions already are offered by other providers in the Charleston."

The word "initially" means that for now they won't offer abortions. I guess maybe later they will.

I am in the minority on this one since I am pro choice.

The point with all of this has to be EDUCATION when it comes to pregnancy. But as long as it is OK in a culture to have babies at a young age and by various "fathers" then the problem of young pregnancies will continue.

Daughter has baby. Baby goes to Granny. Baby grows up and has baby. Baby number 1 sends baby number 2 to daughter, and so on and so on and..... this is the cycle that has to be ended. It can only be ended through education!!!!

Posted by jeff61 on June 27, 2008 at 9:18 a.m. (Suggest removal)

Jack Kevorkian is the man but I do not think he worked for Planned Parenthood.

Posted by theronce on June 27, 2008 at 9:19 a.m. (Suggest removal)

Did the article say that PP was not actually bringing abortions to Charleston...and that PP could provide some education for us dummies. Well, Hitler made the trains run on time, put people back to work, and educated the masses on who was good and who was not...and had no extermination centers in Berlin...I guess that made him ok in Berlin. I do not want one cent of my money, retained earnings or taxes, to go towards any organization that offers infanticide as an option for self-pleasure. I accept but regret having to tolerate the police, fire, and other protections that various levels of my government must provide to allow that organization.

Posted by grannyofsix on June 27, 2008 at 9:23 a.m. (Suggest removal)

Ok I am convinced that Cold Beer is a writer of novels or something. I do love to read so I have to see where his fine writing leads. To see if I recognize any of it. No not, butt kissing as I do disagree with you Cold beer occasionally. Name calling in any post is childish

Posted by greyrider on June 27, 2008 at 9:24 a.m. (Suggest removal)

Slavery was legal at one time. I remember listening to a man on the radio talking about how he sat down one day on a train and the black man sitting next to him introduced himself as a minister. They began to discuss the issues of the day and the black minister brought up abortion. He spoke of how it reminds him of slavery, how the pro-slavery crowd used clever wording to make it sound tame. They spoke of slavery as an "activity" and that the government should not be regulating people's decisions on what they do on their own private property. It's their land, it's their call. The slaves were discussed in a way to dehumanize them and turn them into philosophical subjects of discussion. He said that is why slavery continued as long as it did because it took America forever to wake up and realize "hey, these are people". Then the minister went on to say that this was what was now being done with the unborn.

The ending says a lot. That minister was Jesse Jackson. That man ran into Jackson 2 years ago and asked for his comment on their meeting many years ago. Jackson stopped, looked at him and said "I'll get back to you" He's still waiting.

Posted by SCdeacinNYC on June 27, 2008 at 9:24 a.m. (Suggest removal)

Shoelaces I agree and as various people have already stated, a huge part of planned parenthood is reproductive EDUCATION. And maybe if we had more of that in general there would be less, STDs, teen pregnancies, et cetera in our state where the rate for all of these is way too high.

Berthelot, while I usually disagree with making such statements as "controlling population", it seems that the only countries that have lessened their birth rates and scaled back population growth (mostly Western Countries) have done so by having active reproductive rights AND options for women. What I would do personally is different. But I do believe that it's up to the woman and she can live with that choice if she wants, and many made that choice and do. I wholeheartedly agree with your assertion that the main people vehemently against abortion are often on other boards talking about how certain people should stop having so many kids, et cetera. Well it all begins with education, the sort of education that Planned Parenthood DOES offer which is obviously not as readily available in South Carolina as some people here assume. If it stamps out some of the pervasive myths about sex and sexuality that run rampant in the youth AND adult population in this state, good/great I am ALL for it.

Posted by grannyofsix on June 27, 2008 at 9:25 a.m. (Suggest removal)

Wow! using Microsoft word works wonders

Posted by Test2007 on June 27, 2008 at 9:28 a.m. (Suggest removal)

I love when people do a preempt in their post by saying "I know I will be called a racist" or "I know the nay sayers will come out on this". Umm by saying what you want to say, you are basically proving their point. So stop trying to preempt criticism for your idiotic comment. If it wasn't racist you wouldn't have to do that.

On another note - People please. Abortion is an issue that NO ONE is going to agree on. Whether it is legal (now) or illegal (back in the day) people are going to have them regardless. Picketing it is a waste of time and those people should go out and get jobs. Picketing won't stop anything. Saying God will hate you won't stop it. Calling it murder won't stop it. Shaming people won't stop it. The same people who decry the government's role in our daily lives are always the people who come out full force on this issue and I find it hypocritical. Don't preach morals to me or anyone else. Most people on this board who go on and on about morals this and God that are the same idiots who have some of the most hate filled speech on P&C.

Please stop comparing everything with Hitler. It is annoying as sh%%.

Posted by ROC58 on June 27, 2008 at 9:28 a.m. (Suggest removal)

Oh my goodness - why all this talk about abortion?
Planned Parenthood is all about PREVENTING pregnancy!!!! With no unwanted pregnancies, abortions would cease to exist.

Posted by SCdeacinNYC on June 27, 2008 at 9:29 a.m. (Suggest removal)

greyrider, don't compare abortion to slavery NOT even the same in ANY right.

When people use that same sort of parallel argument to apply to gay marriage (interracial marriage used to be illegal because peole thought it was against "nature") everyone on this board wants to come down on them. "It isn't the same thing..." etc.

Bad analogy, not even CLOSE to being the same. Abortions have been around almost as long as mankind, illegal or otherwise, it's just been technologically advanced in the past century and legal in america in the past 35 years or so. Women have always had and will always will have abortions. Abortions is not akin to slavery. I REPEAT stop comparing abortion to slavery.

Posted by shoelaces on June 27, 2008 at 9:32 a.m. (Suggest removal)

Yea theronce? Well, I don't want one cent of my hard earned money going to wellfare, food stamps, or any other government cheese program that encourages people to stay home and not work for themselves. But guess what? That isn't going to happen. If my tax money can prevent more mouths feeding off the teets of the government then so be it.

I do, however like my garbage picked up, my mail delivered, the feeling of security from police, fire protection, and the county parks.

Again, the article said "Initially" they won't offer abortion services.....What do you think that means?

Posted by greyrider on June 27, 2008 at 9:33 a.m. (Suggest removal)

Slavery - people are abused, exploited, treated like farm animals, in other words, slavery is evil

Abortion - innocent children are murdered

You make the call - everyone has the right to their own opinion.

Posted by grannyofsix on June 27, 2008 at 9:35 a.m. (Suggest removal)

ColdBeer you know sometimes the parents are not always to blame. Did you do everything your parent told you too? I know I did not and, there are lots that did not. My children did not always listen to me either. However, they turned out ok thank god for that. But I Do know a preacher and his wife who raised 4 children in a good home 3 of those children either did drugs or sold them. The three were grownup and married one was married twice before he was 21 the other three times by 35 so it is not always the parents fault.

Posted by greyrider on June 27, 2008 at 9:39 a.m. (Suggest removal)

Newt, if "everyone has the right to do what they want with their own bodies" what about rape? what about murdering someone with your bare hands (no weapons)? Think about it. I will defend the fact that you have EVERY RIGHT to do WHATEVER you want with your body UNTIL you use your body to violate someone else's body.

Posted by SCdeacinNYC on June 27, 2008 at 9:42 a.m. (Suggest removal)

Yes greyrider and the so-called Christian bible thumpers like you are the biggest hypocrites. Comparing slavery to abortion.

And where were most of you when slavery existed....? Probably along with the other hypocrites claiming that it was God's wish for the black man to subjugated to the white because we were lesser and inferior. After all, slavery is justified in the bible. Is that not what most good Southern Christians thought then? I just wonder....where would all have stood now? Remember, hindight is 20/20.

And #1, I wouldn't get into that argument about extermination. That's not what abortions is. Slavery, the trade and the practice caused the deaths of millions of people of African descent. Millions died in the middle passage. Millions more died from disease, malnutrtiion, beatings and lynchings. And don't get me started on what happened afterwards. I suppose living when you are getting the crapped whipped out of you everyday and beaten and assaulted is a happy go free lifestyle.

I'm not going to get into the argument about when a life begins or not, because thats up to personal opinion usually morphed by people's religious beliefs which will NEVER change. We will argue about this to the end of time, but you won't stop abortions. We will always disagree about abortion, but if you think throwing slavery out there is going to get someone on your side, you must be insane.

Posted by shoelaces on June 27, 2008 at 9:42 a.m. (Suggest removal)

You are right GRANNY!!! Those parents can blame George Bush and D.(PnC won't let me use his name) Cheney. Those two have been conspiring for decades to ruin us all.

But don't worry, Obama will save us all. And if (WHEN) he can't all he has to do is blame Bush and Cheney too :)

Posted by SCdeacinNYC on June 27, 2008 at 9:48 a.m. (Suggest removal)

This is hilarious, people are now claiming that planned parenthood has a secret black genocidal intention. Give me a break here.

So what about all the other millions of abortions performed, is that some sort of genocide against white americans. Since it seems, that MOST abortions are performed on white women. Out of 50 million abortions, 17 million are black. Sounds about proportional to me. Black women have abortions at a much lower rate that white women do, which often accounts for the higher teen/young adult pregnancy rate in black women that I hear many of you screaming about on these boards.

Get it together, either black people aren't having enough kids are we are having too many. Now you are trying to say that we have been discriminated against and genocidal acts have been performed in name of abortion. This is laughable. The only systematic killing of blacks in this country that occurred was during slavery and all of the horrible terror-filled decades after.

Posted by Lovely_One on June 27, 2008 at 9:49 a.m. (Suggest removal)

I was going to have an abortion when I got pregnant when I was 17 years old. My best friend took me to the abortion clinic here in Charleston and we were greeted by protesters who were telling us to "Choose Life". My first thought was, "I am choosing life, mine because if my mother finds out that I got pregnant she will kill me." Any way, we waded through the crowd of angry and passionate protesters and may our way into the building. It was not very inviting. The people there looked grim and sad and the atmosphere was very gloomy. I guess it would be since the sole purpose of that place was to end a life. So, my friend signs me in and does all of the talking for me because I was terrified.

We sat in the waiting area for about 5 minutes (it seemed more like an eternity) and were given pamphlets to read about the procedure while we waited. Finally the nurse came and took me into a room where they had to give me an ultrasound to determine the gestational age of my baby (fetus as she kept referring to him). I laid down on the cold table and they squeezed some gel on my stomach that was about 30 degrees below freezing and started the ultrasound. For the first time I saw my baby. It was a real live baby. Tears started welling up in my eyes because I could see his heart beating and his little arms and legs moving around. I looked at my best friend who read my mind and told me, "You don't have to go through with it if you don't want to." I cried more and asked God to please help me because I didn't want to have to face my parents but I didn't want to kill my baby....

Posted by Lovely_One on June 27, 2008 at 9:49 a.m. (Suggest removal)

...Just as I finished my prayer, the nurse looks at me and says, "Well, sweetie, we can't do your abortion." I looked confused and asked her why. She told me that it was because I was one week over the legal time frame that SC allows abortions to be done and then told me that I could go to Georgia or NC but I would have to have parental consent because I was under the age of 18 and going to another state to have it done. I was relieved. I said thank you God and my friend and I left, took the money that my child's father had given me for the procedure, and hit the Mall. My son is now 11 years old and is the best thing that ever happened to me. I thank God for him and my other children every chance I get. When I look at him I think about all that I would have missed out on had I decided to end his life before it ever began.

This is just my story. I am not for abortion, especially if a person is using it as a form of birth control. However, I cannot force someone else to think as I do about it. I can just tell them my story and leave the rest up to them.

Posted by greyrider on June 27, 2008 at 9:56 a.m. (Suggest removal)

Okay, someone send EMS to SCdeacinNYC, he's going to need it.

I agree about Christians and slavery. That's my point! It's all about deception and clever wording. Let's be blunt here. There are plenty of "Christian Churches" all across America led by atheist pastors who are in it for the power and the money. (just watch TBN) Same in the 1800's as today. Remember, there was no TV, no internet, no talk radio back then. People knew what went on among their family and friends and were oblivious to the outside world. Most preachers were holy men of God, but there were plenty who were corrupt and supported slavery and told their naive flocks that blacks were intellectually inferior and that the white man "rescued" them from living like animals in the jungles of Africa and now they were performing their "christian duty" by letting them work and live on the big plantations "like regular people". Sounds nice, doesn't it? But it's BS. So is abortion being a "right" or a "choice" Christians were deceived back then and a lot of people are being deceived now.

Posted by MissPriss on June 27, 2008 at 10:02 a.m. (Suggest removal)

Good Morning All,
What a great article for a Friday. . .

I am Pro-Life for me and Pro-Choice for everyone else. I am all for stepping up and taking responsibility for your actions but, it is not my place to tell a woman what to do when she becomes pregnant. She will have to live with her choice for the rest of her life and that decision is between her and God.

I personally think that Planned Parenthood is a great idea in Charleston and a very valuable resource for people seeking information. They focus on testing and treatment of sexually transmitted infections, gynecological exams and pregnancy testing and birth control. While some locations offer abortions this particular one won't.

Coldbeer...you need to write a book! :)

Posted by drp7773 on June 27, 2008 at 10:03 a.m. (Suggest removal)

All those girls up north that decided to make a pact to get preggers, what happens if now they all wake up and decide they were as stupid as the world thinks they are and now they all want abortions.Wow how many babies die in one day for what again????? But none of this matters now with the ACLU setting up shop, you will now have more babies killed and more rapes of children and more inmoral behavior that they deem the right thing to do for the state.

Posted by grannyofsix on June 27, 2008 at 10:04 a.m. (Suggest removal)

. LOL your right ColdBeer. I forgot about the preacher’s daughter. However, in this case the daughter was the only one who was the good kid as they say. She married at 18 and stayed that way until her husband died.

Posted by SCdeacinNYC on June 27, 2008 at 10:07 a.m. (Suggest removal)

greyrider, I'm a she NOT a he my dear :)

Though I find it amusing that some of the most fervent pro-lifers are men.

We are not being deceived now, and people weren't deceived then. You can't convince me that a "few" corrupt preachers convinced an entire Western world that enslaving humans was OK. Slavery was widespread, you couldn't be oblivious to it. To suggest so is just ridiculous, I'm sorry. Millions of white americans and others were complicit. You are right there was no TV, internet, et cetera, but there IS now. Which means we actually know the facts about what go on, (too much if you ask me). This isn't a conspiracy, it's just what happens. You don't need deception and clever wording...everyone know what happens in an abortion and if you don't, read about it. People should be well-informed about the issue prior to making a decision, and most women are. With this many pro-life, anti-abortion activists out there, it's not hard to know BOTH sides of the issue here.

We aren't going to agree on this, that's obvious. Like I said before, people will argue about abortion to the end of time. But what I don't think will happen is that it will ever revert to be illegal again. It just won't happen.

Posted by greyrider on June 27, 2008 at 10:11 a.m. (Suggest removal)

SCdeacinNYC, again, I agree with you wholeheartedly about the Christians and Slavery issue. Let's not make the same mistake. It took over a century for the Christians to wake up in regards to slavery. Hopefully, modern-day America will wake up on abortion a lot sooner.

BTW, in the 1850's, especially in Charleston, many Christians began to buy slaves, let them work off their purchase price and set them free, so let's not bash 19th century Christians too much.

Posted by Tammie on June 27, 2008 at 10:13 a.m. (Suggest removal)

Aww Lovely, thanks for sharing your story. My pregnancy took me by surprise but I look at it as a blessing. When you look at your little one one that ultrasound, that's when it puts everything into perspective for you. I know it did for me, this lil mama I'm carrying is a feisty one!

ColdBeer, please seek a good publisher!! You are a mess! :-)

Posted by SCdeacinNYC on June 27, 2008 at 10:15 a.m. (Suggest removal)

Oh yes, thank you 19th century Christians for buying blacks as slaves and "letting them" purchase themselves essentially. Lucky, lucky them. I'm sure those Christians were just doing their Christian duties. (sarcasm, for the dense)

Once again, greyrider we will disagree on this as we have on many other things. Just to summarize, I'm pro-choice and I think comparing slavery to abortion is deception. I think that's all I can say without making my head explode early in the morning.

Posted by Test2007 on June 27, 2008 at 10:16 a.m. (Suggest removal)

Gadsden - Idiot, I was referring to your joke:

REMEMBER:
I know this old joke will bring the "oh noes" out in full force screaming that I am a "wacist".

SC - don't try to educate the crazy masses of SC. I bet a lot of them still think ALL abortions are performed at abortion clinics. LOL. Yeah right.

drp - Hmmm children born to idiotic teens who made a pact to get pregnant. Just wonderful. How about your tax dollars going to pay for the little bundles of joy? Nah, on an abortion board it is one thing but on another board about some welfare mother with 4 kids it is another issue. You can't straddle both sides.

Posted by iceman1978 on June 27, 2008 at 10:18 a.m. (Suggest removal)

shoelaces, You are completely correct in discussing the cycle of poverty with babies having babies. It happens a lot more than people think and we as the taxpayers end up paying the bill for it. It makes my blood boil each time I think about it when I look at my paycheck stubs and realize that I'm being punished for working and making something of myself. Hopefully having a Planned Parenthood in town will help to prevent this from happening.

If it were up to me though I'd tell teenage mothers that the state will pay for their abortion, but we will not pay for welfare, food stamps, etc. Let them make the choice for themselves. That's exactly how it's done in some countries overseas and the teen birth rate is only a fraction of what it is here.

Posted by greyrider on June 27, 2008 at 10:19 a.m. (Suggest removal)

Newt, I guarantee you this story has happened somewhere. Girl gets drunk passes out at party (or is the victim of a date rape drug). Guy rapes her. She has no idea this took place. She gets pregnant, assumes it's her boyfriend's. Five years later, the guy shows up at her door. He's been a mess with guilt, spills the beans, he raped her. She does the math, realizes little Johnny was fathered by a rape. Should she legally be allowed to kill little Johnny? If not, what's the difference?

You don't punish an innocent child by murdering it just because the father is a scumbag. That's what I would tell my daughter. Life isn't always easy.

Posted by SCdeacinNYC on June 27, 2008 at 10:21 a.m. (Suggest removal)

Test, I've stopped, trust me. I can't run head first into a brick wall anymore. It's just insane.

Good point though about the abortions being performed by private doctors. A good deal are, I know that's how many of the teenage girls at my high school, and in the cusp of the wealthy families here in Manhattan do it. Do it privately, keep it quiet, because only "certain" girls have abortions according to those on this board.

Posted by Lovely_One on June 27, 2008 at 10:22 a.m. (Suggest removal)

tripsa and Tammie,

You are both quite welcome. My little one is quite the mover himself. (hint...it's a boy!) I decided to break my silence and come back for this story because this one is near and dear to me. My best friend told me that I needed to respond today because she knows how I feel about it.

As far as Planned Parenthood goes, I feel that it is a great idea to educate people on sexually transmitted diseases and such. Maybe if they are more educated there will be less need for abortions.

Posted by Test2007 on June 27, 2008 at 10:26 a.m. (Suggest removal)

LOL - I love the comment, "either black people aren't having enough kids or we are having too many". I never understood that argument either. You can't have it both ways.
Black genocide - laughable.
The only black genocide I heard of was called the Middle Passage. Anything else is basically just propaganda.

Posted by greyrider on June 27, 2008 at 10:26 a.m. (Suggest removal)

ColdBeer - using just human reasoning, I can fully understand advocating condoms and/or the morning after pill. They make sense. But for Christians, who consider the Bible the Word of God, Psalm 139 essentially teaches that God is the author of life and we are overstepping our authority by using artificial means to regulate it. If you don't believe the Bible was "written by God" (which I know you don't) then I understand your position, it makes sense. Just remember, not everything makes sense. The existence of snow makes absolutely no sense to me whatsoever. Maybe that's why Canadiens are so strange.

Posted by jeff61 on June 27, 2008 at 10:30 a.m. (Suggest removal)

Posted by grannyofsix on June 27, 2008 at 10:04 a.m. (Suggest removal)

. LOL your right ColdBeer. I forgot about the preacher’s daughter. However, in this case the daughter was the only one who was the good kid as they say. She married at 18 and stayed that way until her husband died.

They did not live in Tennessee. Oh that was a preacher and his wife, never mind

Posted by grannyofsix on June 27, 2008 at 10:31 a.m. (Suggest removal)

. I just scrolled up and read Lovely_One's post. How wonderful that you chose life and I hope someone who is thinking about abortion will see it and maybe change her mind. You said it all with out preaching it Lovely_One. Thank you

Posted by Test2007 on June 27, 2008 at 10:32 a.m. (Suggest removal)

Ditto on the brick wall. I have mentioned before that I only come here for entertainment rather than to have a valid discussion. It is usually the same folks over and over spouting their views so if you've been on a while you basically know how all the "regulars" feel about everything. The same folks who scream hate on another board will do the same on a board with a similar topic. I find the hypocrisy most amusing of all because most of the hypocrites have no idea that they are hypocrites. I am glad that P&C board is is not indicative of SC as a whole.

Posted by SCdeacinNYC on June 27, 2008 at 10:34 a.m. (Suggest removal)

greyrider I'm a Christian and I don't believe the bible was "written by God". Are you suggesting that? If so, that would explain A LOT. I'm not a fundamentalist, I have common sense. WE already know that most of the bible was written by man except for a few select verses which are either God or Jesus Christ's exact words. Beyond that its written interpretation, which doesn't take away from the overall meaning, but that's just what it is. I will accept "inspired by God", but written by God, even the parts that contradict themselves and clearly apply to ancient times. I don't think so.

We are overstepping our authority by "regulating life." Do you believe in the death penalty also? To claim that condoms and the morning after pill are overstepping authority is ridiculous. Do you know how many unwanted pregnancies and diseases would exist without these. IT is just common human reasoning and as much as it pains me to say, I agree with Cold Beer. :)

Posted by lucky2b on June 27, 2008 at 10:34 a.m. (Suggest removal)

SCdeaciNYC...explode away! you missed the point all together. you sound like the type that does that alot?!

Posted by Test2007 on June 27, 2008 at 10:41 a.m. (Suggest removal)

LOL Newt. That is what I am talking about, the hypocrisy.

Posted by willbillbedamned on June 27, 2008 at 10:42 a.m. (Suggest removal)

I spent some time as one of those SS troopers mentioned above. I helped guarantee access to the clinic West of the Ashley.The protesters there were some of the rudest, most vile people I have ever encountered in my life. My personal beliefs had NO bearing on my being there. I was there because I long ago took an oath to uphold the Laws of my country. Abortion is legal, so access should not be impeded. Change the law if you like but don't harass young women doing what they feel is best for them.

Posted by iceman1978 on June 27, 2008 at 10:44 a.m. (Suggest removal)

Newt, Excellent point.

Posted by jeff61 on June 27, 2008 at 10:44 a.m. (Suggest removal)

Five years later, the guy shows up at her door. He's been a mess with guilt, spills the beans, he raped her. She does the math, realizes little Johnny was fathered by a rape.

So does this guy get charged with rape? Now he owes five years back child support, does that get paid? Looks like little johnny's scumbag father goes to jail.

Posted by grannyofsix on June 27, 2008 at 10:47 a.m. (Suggest removal)

Death in any form is a terrible thing be it by the hand of a murderer or by abortion or even natural cause and today it is really something to think about .I just got a call here at work that I just lost my sister so it brings this home right now. In addition, at this time I am glad I have my children to help me through this today

Posted by Test2007 on June 27, 2008 at 10:54 a.m. (Suggest removal)

Grannyofsix- I am sorry to hear about your sister. I offer my condolences. BUT

This is an entirely different situation and circumstance.

Posted by oyme36 on June 27, 2008 at 10:55 a.m. (Suggest removal)

Maybe we can open a clinic where our community can go have there elderly inconvienant parents killed and while your at it how about all of the handicapped and disabled people. Why should we as a society be forced to care for them. Right? Of course with abortion more easily abtainable there wouldnt be any handicapped or mentally challenged people we could kill them before they come out. I am pro-choice but the choice should be to keep your pants on or not. Why is it the baby that gets it's little limbs pulled off because mommy and daddy were ready for sex but not the consequence? Just because your not ready to love him or her why does the baby get the death sentence. Your mistake could be someone elses blessing.

Posted by Lovely_One on June 27, 2008 at 10:55 a.m. (Suggest removal)

I read this article the other day and thought you all would like to read it. It is appropriate for this board:

A teenage girl from Argentina has given birth to female triplets - for the second time! The teenager Pamela Villarruel poses with her seven children on May 11, 2008 outside her parents' home in the town of Leones in Cordoba Province, central Argentina. Pamela had her first set of female triplets aged just 15, giving birth to the second set a year later. As she gave birth to a son when she was just 14, that means young Pamela is now a mother seven times over, all before her 17th birthday!!. All seven children were born prematurely but without any kind of fertility treatment.

Pamela and her children currently sleep in the living room of her mother Magdalena who supports them all by house cleaning. The father of Pamela's first son abandoned them, the father of the first set of triplets was forced out of the house by the family for beating her, and Pamela refuses to identify the father of the more recent triplets. The young girl’s mother, Magdalena, requested to have her daughter's fallopian tubes tied to avoid any further pregnancies, but was denied as Argentine law prohibits the procedure to be done on minors.

While doctors say the three newborns and their mother are well, the case has sparked debate across Argentina, the BBC has reported. In bars, cafes, and newspapers, there has been widespread criticism of Pamela's alleged promiscuity. Her family already receives help from the provincial authorities, which donated land and built them a house when the first set of triplets was born. But some Argentines are arguing that perhaps what Pamela needs is not financial help but more advice on contraception. Pamela's mother says they will now have to seek more assistance from the government. The teenager will be 17 years old on Monday.

OMG:
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-...

Photos:
http://www.ibnlive.com/photogallery/832-...

Posted by Test2007 on June 27, 2008 at 10:58 a.m. (Suggest removal)

Totally agree Newt. You will have to go on another board to hear the same folks talk about "personal responsibility" but that means nothing on this board.

Posted by MissPriss on June 27, 2008 at 10:59 a.m. (Suggest removal)

I'm sorry for your loss Granny. My thoughts and prayers are with you.

Newt, I agree with you.

Posted by Lovely_One on June 27, 2008 at 11 a.m. (Suggest removal)

Granny,

I am so sorry to hear about your sister. My condolences to you and the rest of your family.

Posted by grannyofsix on June 27, 2008 at 11 a.m. (Suggest removal)

what I was trying say was I thank god for the children i have to be there for me for this reason and others some who choose abortion will not have that this is what i was trying to say sorry if it came out wrong but thank you

Posted by Tammie on June 27, 2008 at 11:01 a.m. (Suggest removal)

Ramen (Newt) said :"Better yet, if you don't believe in abortion stop having sex altogether!"

Check and mate.

Granny I am sorry for your loss!! Big hug from me and lil mama!

Posted by SCdeacinNYC on June 27, 2008 at 11:04 a.m. (Suggest removal)

Lovely_One I respect you for airing your situation, but then commenting that its a choice and that maybe organizations like PP could better educate people about the choices that they have.

Education is the key here, and in a state that seems to live and breathe abstinence only education, we wonder why our kids are so ignorant to contraception and safe sex. Which of course leads to more STDs and teen pregnancies. When these girls have kids and they aren't good mothers and those kids are detriments to society, who then will speak up an say hmm maybe our religion-infused sex education is wrong. Surely, not the people on this board who cry about people having kids they aren't able to take care of yet want to breathe fire down your back for suggesting that more sexual and reproductive education is necessary.

Posted by msplacedinsc on June 27, 2008 at 11:07 a.m. (Suggest removal)

Hey tripsa and the rest of the supporters who are Pro-Life, please spell your correct names and addresses so PP can put you all down on the adoption list for all unwanted children in this country. Since you all can sound off about this, then step up?

It brings my spouse and I great joy of 6 (six) liberal, open minded, well educated, world traveled, children of ours, to speak about people and issues at the dinner table. Especially about folks in our area and the entire counrty who have more opportunities to live a better life if they went so dam worried about other people. Get a clue please and stop, let the "guy in the sky" decide about women who choose this procedure.

Posted by msplacedinsc on June 27, 2008 at 11:11 a.m. (Suggest removal)

Thanks Newt.....Great idea!

Posted by Test2007 on June 27, 2008 at 11:13 a.m. (Suggest removal)

I heard that a lot of states are opting out of the abstinence only program. They are losing millions but they believe it doesn't help. I am sure SC is STILL on the list but whatever.

oyme - That would be great if every unwanted child could be born and adopted by a great family. That is not realistic. There are some kids that never get adopted. There are kids who are in the "system" all their lives until they turn 18. In a perfect world every "unwanted" child had a great set of parents waiting for them. Unfortunately we don't live in that world. Lets talk about the unwanted kids who are born and subsequently abused and sometimes ACTUALLY murdered by their parents.

Lovely_One - unfortunately I think I read about this girl before but I swear that when I read about her she only had the first set of triplets. Maybe it was a similar story but I swear it sounds the same.

Posted by greyrider on June 27, 2008 at 11:15 a.m. (Suggest removal)

The problem with so-called "sex education" is that it normally devolves into pushing various liberal political agendas. I'm all for basic literal sex education. Teach kids that sex produces children and that there are no 100% birth control methods available. Also, I am 110% in favor of teaching kids that psychologists and psychiatrists report that the more promiscuous a woman is, the more likely she is to commit suicide and the more promiscuous a man is the more likely he is to commit a violent crime. Forget the moral/religious issues, promiscuity is statistically a bad idea. Wait until you're married. Will they all listen? No, but also tell them the truth about STD's. While condoms can protect you against some STD's, all medical research says that condoms do NOT protect you against HIV. But so-called "sex education" rarely involves telling kids the truth, so what's the point other than to waste more taxpayer money. If it's going to be truthful, I'm all in favor of it.

Posted by Lovely_One on June 27, 2008 at 11:16 a.m. (Suggest removal)

Thanks, SCdea. I had a choice when I went to that clinic and ultimately I chose life. Not everyone will, but at least they have a choice. As far as education goes, I feel that we should not just preach to the kids that they should practice abstinence because 9 times out of 10 they aren't gonna listen any way. Teach them about sex and the consequences that are involved if they were to have unprotected sex, i.e. STDs and unwanted pregnancies.

Posted by greyrider on June 27, 2008 at 11:20 a.m. (Suggest removal)

I normally view conspiracy theorists as nuts, but I really have to wonder about the whole adoption issue. How did adoption become SO ridiculously expensive? (some put the average at $10,000 per child - I don't know for sure) and the process is ridiculously long. Was this done on purpose to take away the adoption option to further push the abortion agenda? I don't know, but it is insanely hard to adopt children in this country.

Posted by Lovely_One on June 27, 2008 at 11:21 a.m. (Suggest removal)

Test,

They did a story about her when she had the first set, so this could be the same one.

Posted by SCdeacinNYC on June 27, 2008 at 11:24 a.m. (Suggest removal)

greyrider, what on God's blessed green earth are you talking about?

Condoms DO protect you from most STDs and HIV infection. Nothing is 100% but when used correctly is more than 90% (I think 99..but don't quote me on the actual stats) of the time. Yeesh, I hope you don't have kids and you are telling them that sort of hogwash. Wait until you are married is for the fantasy world, protect yourself by using condoms and birth control is for the REAL world.

I'm sure you think sex is bad and evil right and she only be used for "reproduction" judging by your comments on promiscuity.

I'm sorry but you sir, are a crackpot.

Posted by Test2007 on June 27, 2008 at 11:28 a.m. (Suggest removal)

greyrider - I can probably answer that. Adoption is usually that long and expensive for infants. Any older kids probably won't have that kind of an issue. Also, we're talking about white babies. I am just telling the truth here. People who adopt often are white and a lot of times they want kids that look like them (nothing wrong with that) so white infants are in demand. That is common knowledge. That conspiracy theory has been DEBUNKED!

PS A friend of mine just adopted a black infant recently (black couple) and I swear it took them a couple of months and they didn't pay thousands for him. Just an FYI.

Posted by Test2007 on June 27, 2008 at 11:34 a.m. (Suggest removal)

rosy palming !!

I am going to use that term.

LOL

Posted by greyrider on June 27, 2008 at 11:38 a.m. (Suggest removal)

First, Test, if it's true that black babies are cheaper to adopt, that's disgusting and about as racist as anything in this country. I'm white and godfather to two black kids.

Secondly, I'm just passing on information. Think about this. The idea that HIV can pass thru condoms has been roundly criticized and continuosly attacked. But I find the source of the controversy fascinating. It was a research doctor hired by the CLINTON administration to do HIV/AIDS research!! I'm not a doctor, but why would a doctor hired by Bill Clinton (the patron saint of promiscuity)lie about this? Again, I'm not a doctor, I'm only repeating the (admittedly) controversial comments of an HIV/AIDS research doctor.

Posted by Test2007 on June 27, 2008 at 11:43 a.m. (Suggest removal)

Umm it's supply and demand greyrider. That my dear, is not racism. It's business.

Posted by Test2007 on June 27, 2008 at 11:45 a.m. (Suggest removal)

...as compared to Bush? pssh

Posted by SCdeacinNYC on June 27, 2008 at 11:46 a.m. (Suggest removal)

My dear confused greyrider:

What you said exactly was, "While condoms can protect you against some STD's, all medical research says that condoms do NOT protect you against HIV."

ALL medical research? Now, you are boiling it down to one controversial doctor. You just seems to be confused here. Please read up on HIV and condom use and get back to me with a more educated response.

I work in the HIV/AIDS section of a major international organization, I will debunk that for you here and now. NO, that is not true. Almost all medical research points to the fact that condom use consistently is the best way to prevent HIV infection and dramatically reduces the risk. I believe the infection rate is about .9 persons for every 100 that uses a condom or something like that.

Black babies are easier to adopt, because a lot of black children exist in the "system". Mostly white couples adopt and want to adopt white children (which is fine if thats their preference), black children are usually adopted through informal networks and hardly on paper. Raised by other people, et cetera. But many end up in the system. So you are a godfather to two black kids, well congratulations are you also a guardian and financial provider...there is a huge difference.

Posted by SCdeacinNYC on June 27, 2008 at 11:47 a.m. (Suggest removal)

Abortions are not funded by tax dollars. That's a fallacy.

Posted by iceman1978 on June 27, 2008 at 11:48 a.m. (Suggest removal)

Lovely One, Sickening if you ask me. It reminds me of my stepbrother and his wife, whom I call LA and CB. Both are short for something but I can't say on this board. (hint: The beginning of LA is Lazy and CB starts with Cutthroat)

CB has seven kids now by three different fathers. LA is the father of four of these kids and hasn't worked in nearly six years. According to him they recieve $600 per month in food stamps, and are likely drawing a whole a-la-carte of other benefits coming to them. According to CB when she had her tubes tied the procedure was unsuccessful. This was her excuse three times, which I have a hard time believing. Right now they're going through a divorce.

I hold both of them responsible for the situation. She's responsible because she continued to have children while the kids they already had were living in poverty and will likely not have a bright future ahead of them. I hold him responsible because he didn't use a condom and wouldn't get a job. However, we're still paying for it. I choose not to live this way. I choose not to bring kids into the world that I couldn't take care of, and yet I'm forced (as are the rest of us) to pay for their decisions.

It's different when someone has a family and loses their job due to a layoff or outsourcing. Sometimes things happen that can put someone into financial trouble. It's when it was a calculated and deliberate choice that I have a hard time feeling bad for the people involved. Not including the kids of course. I thank the Lord that I wasn't born into that kind of family.

Posted by greyrider on June 27, 2008 at 11:49 a.m. (Suggest removal)

Newt, my mistake, I didn't word this correctly. I agree with your wording that Condoms are the "best" defense against HIV, but in a life and death situation, in my opinion, 99% is unacceptable. Maybe that's extreme, but that's a better way to word it.

Posted by greyrider on June 27, 2008 at 11:53 a.m. (Suggest removal)

SCdeaninNYC, ask me your last question next year.

Also, see my last comment, I didn't word that correctly before. 99% might as well be zero when it comes to HIV. It's not worth the risk.

Posted by SCdeacinNYC on June 27, 2008 at 12:01 p.m. (Suggest removal)

well greyrider, I go back to Newt's suggestion that you just not have sex at all. Because "waiting until you get married' isn't protection either. I will refer you to the thousands of married men and women who get infected by their partners. I suggest you consider complete celibacy to get over your fear that 99% isnt enough. Which also sounds good to me if it prevents the sort of procreation that leads to ridiculous beliefs.

Posted by Lovely_One on June 27, 2008 at 12:01 p.m. (Suggest removal)

Wow, iceman. Now that is just plain stupid and lazy on their part. Then, they are receiving government assistance to boot. That just makes me sick. The thing that bothers me the most about the story I posted is the mother wants them to tie her daughter's tubes and they refuse to allow it, yet they will force the taxpayers through government funds to support her promiscuity and the results thereof.

Posted by ThinkAboutThis on June 27, 2008 at 12:05 p.m. (Suggest removal)

Well it's about time.

Now if CCSD would institute sex ed classes beginning in 5th grade maybe some positive change can happen.

14, 15, 16 yr olds don't need to be parents!

Posted by jeff61 on June 27, 2008 at 12:12 p.m. (Suggest removal)

Looks as if little Johnny got aborted, I do not see any further mention of him.

Posted by Charles_Town on June 27, 2008 at 12:13 p.m. (Suggest removal)

I am not interested in getting into a debate, but since I do have a strong opinion on it I will post. I am pro-life, I am Catholic. I believe abortion is a sin and amounts to nothing more than pre-meditated murder. As for you agnostics out there while sin is not a concept you believe or have a full understanding of, the idea of it being murder still applies. For all you pro-choice people out there (I used to be one by the way (even though it was against my church's teaching, until I fully understood what its consequences) I want to share my opinion on individual rights in general... a person's rights ends when they start infringing on others. Now while that fetus is only a fetus.. it is still a life. Saying a person has the right to do what every they want to their body (even though I think it is the dumbest things I have heard... er...ever) is the weakest argument that could possibly be provided for your stance on the issue. The idea of a planned parenthood is not a bad idea at all, until they bring in the idea of killing the fetus so a person is not even a parent anymore. Any responders to this fire, I could care less. Not trying to change anyone's opinion in a simple post after all
"A person's mind changed against their will is of the same opinion still"

Posted by scienceguy on June 27, 2008 at 12:15 p.m. (Suggest removal)

greyrider:

Please provide your source for the information on condoms. In the meantime, you may want to click http://www.tellthemsc.org/library/educat... and take a spin through postings on the site.

Posted by ThinkAboutThis on June 27, 2008 at 12:16 p.m. (Suggest removal)

It's nobody's business or decision to decide if an abortion is right or not except the couple involved period.

Posted by Yeah_I_said_it on June 27, 2008 at 12:21 p.m. (Suggest removal)

I love it when people say "period" at the end of their argument as if that is all that can be said about it! Lol!

Posted by Tammie on June 27, 2008 at 12:28 p.m. (Suggest removal)

Lmao @ ColdBeer You are so awful!

Posted by jeff61 on June 27, 2008 at 12:42 p.m. (Suggest removal)

Posted by iceman1978 on June 27, 2008 at 11:48 a.m. (Suggest removal)

Lovely One, Sickening if you ask me. It reminds me of my stepbrother and his wife, whom I call LA and CB. Both are short for something but I can't say on this board. (hint: The beginning of LA is Lazy and CB starts with Cutthroat)

CB has seven kids now by three different fathers. LA is the father of four of these kids and hasn't worked in nearly six years.

I would say "facials" would have worked here

Posted by halfsheli on June 27, 2008 at 12:43 p.m. (Suggest removal)

"Why do atheist doctors refuse to perform abortions on moral grounds?"

It's very simple. People CAN be moral without religion. The two are NOT synonymous. Otherwise some would be hard-pressed to explain the many immoral actions of devout christians.

Posted by Lovely_One on June 27, 2008 at 12:47 p.m. (Suggest removal)

CB, I see you are still at it! I ain't mad. Lol!

Posted by greyrider on June 27, 2008 at 12:51 p.m. (Suggest removal)

Newt, I'll agree with you about something in theory. It is hypocritical and stupid as anything to say its wrong to kill children, but then have them grow up and kill them in an unnecessary war. (of course "unnecessary" is an opinion term)

Posted by greyrider on June 27, 2008 at 12:54 p.m. (Suggest removal)

halfsheli, there is morality founded in religious teachings, and morality founded in personal opinion. That's my point. Abortion is NOT a religious issue.

Posted by greyrider on June 27, 2008 at 1:13 p.m. (Suggest removal)

I think I should clarify something. There is another side to this debate. My moral beliefs on this issue and my Constitutional beliefs are different. I believe that Roe vs Wade violated the Constitution. But I also believe that the Federal government should NOT outlaw abortion across the country. According to the way the Founders envisioned America, each individual state should have the authority to decide whether or not abortion should be legal in that state. It's called the 10th Amendment.

Posted by greyrider on June 27, 2008 at 1:15 p.m. (Suggest removal)

Is it relevant that "Roe" is today, a pro-life activist?

Posted by common_sense on June 27, 2008 at 1:24 p.m. (Suggest removal)

I want to know more about this Catholic Crutch that the OP referred to. It sounds horrendous & must be stopped. Or aborted.

I'm just sayin...

Posted by ThinkAboutThis on June 27, 2008 at 1:30 p.m. (Suggest removal)

Rocky D where is Rocky D?

Hey my kid gets raped and becomes pregnant she will have an abortion- murder or not- why should she she be forced to have that nitwit's baby because somebody else who is not even involved decides otherwise!

Posted by Test2007 on June 27, 2008 at 1:43 p.m. (Suggest removal)

Sorry but you may not agree with cindy sheehan but if you don't know how it is to have your kid die in a war then i think you shouldn't pass judgment.

Roe can sit her behind down somewhere.

Posted by TripleTasked on June 27, 2008 at 1:50 p.m. (Suggest removal)

ColdBeer is my hero.

Posted by theronce on June 27, 2008 at 1:53 p.m. (Suggest removal)

Sex education...what a crock to start with.

Posted by MissPriss on June 27, 2008 at 1:54 p.m. (Suggest removal)

ColdBeer.....you my friend...are Ridiculous!

I almost spit my drink out on my computer!

:)

You better quit with the references to sex before this turns bad! LoL :-)

Posted by Test2007 on June 27, 2008 at 1:58 p.m. (Suggest removal)

I figured as long as she shed light on the issues it was doing more good then if she was out of the spotlight. We've elected leaders who could barely put two sentences together, so I won't get on the "bad public speaking" kick.

Posted by dreamer on June 27, 2008 at 1:59 p.m. (Suggest removal)

halfsheli and greyrider, it would be nice if someone could separate "religion" from "abortion", as well. There are many former doctors and nurses who have worked in abortion clinics who have stood and up and explained to them what working in an abortion clinic is like. One particular nurse that I remember, wrote a book about the body parts that she disposed of the lives she saw snuffed out. My feelings about abortion have nothing to do with right or wrong...my feelings about abortion come from hearing what happens during the procedure itself--the saline that burns the child in utero...the pain the baby feels before it's life ends.

Now, on another note and thinking wayyyy back. . . in the 1990's, wasn't there an illegal abortion clinic in North Charleston? I can't remember why, but it seems I remember when we were down on the old base, there was talk of a clinic somewhere off Rivers, where fetuses and body parts were found in the dumpsters?

Posted by greyrider on June 27, 2008 at 2:01 p.m. (Suggest removal)

ColdBeer, yes I've heard her speak. She doesn't really strike me as a quack. To be totally honest, I think the pro-life crowd sees this as such a big deal (Roe is now pro-life) that they have pretty much pushed her onstage despite the fact that she has no public speaking skills at all. Some people tremble in front of a crowd.

Posted by jeff61 on June 27, 2008 at 2:02 p.m. (Suggest removal)

Posted by theronce on June 27, 2008 at 1:53 p.m. (Suggest removal)

Sex education...what a crock to start with.

Yes it does take one of those to start,,,, Oh you type crock,,,, never mind

Posted by greyrider on June 27, 2008 at 2:03 p.m. (Suggest removal)

ColdBeer, please, that's disgusting.

Posted by MissPriss on June 27, 2008 at 2:05 p.m. (Suggest removal)

You are absolutely right CB....that's a surefire way to prevent pregnancy.

I for one like the birth control pill...works and requires no clean up. Thanks. :-)

Posted by iceman1978 on June 27, 2008 at 2:10 p.m. (Suggest removal)

Birth control should be available free of charge to anyone who wants it. I would have no objection to my taxes paying for that rather than pay for unwanted children.

Posted by ChasCarolinaGirl on June 27, 2008 at 2:10 p.m. (Suggest removal)

Some idiots are posting today! They cannot read either... This is what was said:

Catholic Diocese of Charleston, said, "The presence alone here sadly is likely to increase abortions here, whether surgical or chemical, and the result is still a dead baby. It's a sad day for Charleston."

For those of you who are PRO CHOICE ... You need to look up how abortions are done. I understand that sometimes, the babies will not make it and it is MEDICALLY necessary. I believe that all who are prochoice should know the facts rather than just saying "Im pro choice"

The babies who are healthy get stabbed in the back of the neck or their heads crushed. Their arms and legs are pulled from their tiny torsos ...

So yes, it is a sad day that Charleston could become more open to MORE abortions as BIRTH CONTROL from girls who cannot learn to keep their legs shut!!!! There are MANY more people who use it for birth control than many of you could ever imagine. They are old enough and supposed to be MATURE enough to know better! No, they would rather kill the baby instead of keeping their legs shut or using other types of birth control .. so there you go you "Pro Choice" people.

Posted by greyrider on June 27, 2008 at 2:13 p.m. (Suggest removal)

Years ago, a letter was circulated written by an atheist doctor describing what he witnessed while visiting a friend of his who was an abortion doctor. The woman was put under and the abortion doctor was called away to take an emergency phone call. The atheist doctor who had decided to stand in with his friend during the "procedure" glanced over at the mother who had a needle inserted thru her stomach. The needle was moving slightly. When the doctor looked at the ultrasound machine, he noticed the needle was piercing the "fetus" through the chest and it was twitching frantically. These same type of scenarios were repeated throughout the Supreme Court case on partial birth abortion. Understand abortion for what it really is before you discuss words like "choice" and "right".

Posted by MissPriss on June 27, 2008 at 2:13 p.m. (Suggest removal)

Planned Parenthood is actually a great place to go if you are seeking information. Think about the kids with parents who don't believe in birth control at all and then are completely shocked when their child comes home pregnant. If you have places like this then the child can get the birth control without parents and prevent unwanted pregnancies and not have to get an abortion.

Posted by ChasCarolinaGirl on June 27, 2008 at 2:15 p.m. (Suggest removal)

NEWT ~ You sound ridiculous .. You cannot be human to be able to compare a baby to cancer or a hemorrhoid. Wow, You are a waste of O2!!!!

Yes, it is your decision, but to compare that way shows you have no realistic though process. KEEP YOUR LEGS CLOSED. OR guess what .. there are other birth controls out there just in case you didn't know b/c you dont sound like you have much sense with your comparisons. Go get some before you use abortion as birth control. You're a loser!

Posted by Pluffmuddy on June 27, 2008 at 2:15 p.m. (Suggest removal)

Question: What motivates a person to adamantly reject abstinence, and then turn around and kill the "mistake"??? It sure as Hell (hint, hint) isn't the Love of God...

Posted by bkeelin on June 27, 2008 at 2:20 p.m. (Suggest removal)

I wish all of you liberals would quit cramming your morals down my throat. I get tired of how you force your morals on us, telling us we can't have guns but we can kill our own babies. Telling us we can't drill for oil because it will stress out the polar bears. Who are you to force your morals and humanistic dogma down our throats. Don't you liberals have a word for telling others not to do what you are doing, I believe it's called hypocrite? Why do the majority of Americans have to accept the moral dogma of baby killers and socialists. Leave us to our own moral standards.

What you don't understand is that we are held accountable by God to share the truth. If we see someone heading for a cliff and don't warn them, God holds us accountable. You are under no obligation to tell the truth or have a higher moral standard so why you feel it necessary to impose your beliefs on us I have no idea, but I know I don't like it.

Posted by ChasCarolinaGirl on June 27, 2008 at 2:24 p.m. (Suggest removal)

ColdBeer ~ I understand where you are coming from.

My point is that I agree that it is sad at the possibility that abortion could be performed more often. Its like a stab to my heart for anyone to use it as birth control and it happens so often.

I am methodist. Im not familiar w/ the Catholic denomination ... Im just going by how I feel about the situation and I was only agreeing with him on that issue.

Posted by bkeelin on June 27, 2008 at 2:25 p.m. (Suggest removal)

The Crisis Pregnancy Center has been around Charleston for a lot longer than planned unparenthood, and is a much better, and safer place to seek information, for the mother as well as the baby.

Posted by bkeelin on June 27, 2008 at 2:28 p.m. (Suggest removal)

Newt,

That is a LIE, even planned unparenthood admitted that it was much more common than 1500 per year. And almost every time the mothers life was not at stake. Read through the supreme court testimonies and briefs that have been filed before you make such a false statement.

Posted b