Posted by wpc3iop on June 26, 2008 at 7:05 a.m. (Suggest removal)

Thak you Everette Presson and other do-gooders for making us smokers do what is good for us...we don't have enough government intervention and regulation in our lives! I hope SI loses the case.

Posted by lou9 on June 26, 2008 at 7:26 a.m. (Suggest removal)

Nice try, I hope it works but I think the anti-smoking nazis have already won this battle. The Supreme Court is a bunch of idiots bowing to political correctness instead of common sense.

Posted by berthelot on June 26, 2008 at 7:31 a.m. (Suggest removal)

Bert's should re-open as "Bert's Cigar and Tobacco Club". Local laws didn't affect Club Habana above the Tinder Box on Meeting Street because a large percentage of their business is from tobacco sales. You can go there today and drink a fifteen dollar martini and smoke as much tobacco as you like.

90% of Bert's patrons were smokers. All you have to do is get everyone to buy some tobacco with their beer and the problem should be solved.

The answer is NOT to spend money on a lawyer arguing something that has already been decided by the State Supreme Court.

It should be noted that Bert's was the only bar/restaurant on the island that did not have the option of expanding to include outdoor seating. Every other bar/restaurant on the island still has a place that people can eat, drink and smoke at the same time.

Bert's was simply run out of business because it was the last blue collar joint in an increasingly yuppie, white collar neighborhood.

Posted by 5thGenerationLocal on June 26, 2008 at 8:04 a.m. (Suggest removal)

I am not a smoker, but I am glad that SI does not have a case. I wish Berts would come back bigger and better than ever.

Posted by shoelaces on June 26, 2008 at 8:27 a.m. (Suggest removal)

I disgust cigarette smoking. But I think I disgust the government legislating what people can and can't do when it comes to their health. Give them an inch and....

I do have to admit that it is nice to go to a restaurant and not come out stinking like cigarettes.

And I liked Bert's Bar. Great atmosphere and a lot of real, genuine people went there.

This one should play out in an interesting way.

Posted by MSC on June 26, 2008 at 9:04 a.m. (Suggest removal)

The smoking ban hasn't hurt Dunlevey's or Poe's. Sounds like bad management looking for an excuse.
How about better drink specials, different food. HD TV's, Trivia Night. There are many different ways to appeal to a new customers.

Posted by justjerry on June 26, 2008 at 9:44 a.m. (Suggest removal)

MSC - Without the smoking ban they did not need to appeal to new customers, they already had a long established customer base. The bad management is on the part of the government by trying to regulate what legal activities businesses allow their patrons to engage in on private property.

Posted by lou9 on June 26, 2008 at 9:55 a.m. (Suggest removal)

MSC - What about a business owner's right to decide what legal activities he wants to allow on his private property? What about your right to turn your behind around and leave an estabilshment if you don't like what's going on inside? What about a worker's right to find a place to work that doesn't allow smoking? Government doesn't need to get their nose in this, let the free market decide.

Posted by RTC on June 26, 2008 at 10:02 a.m. (Suggest removal)

Very good comments.
I still can't see why there can't be smoking and nonsmoking establishments. People can choose the places that they want to patronize, and then everyone can be happy.
As long as you have your Santos's and Gawrych's in places like Mt.P, people will continue to lose their right to choose.
Let the establishment owners make the choice. If you don't like their decision then go somewhere else. It's that simple.

Posted by coolfreaknbeans on June 26, 2008 at 10:09 a.m. (Suggest removal)

I think smoking bans are stupid.Let me tell you why.I hadnt been downtown in a while.I had company in town and we went downtown.People were loitering all over the sidewalks and streets-so they could smoke!At least before nonsmokers had a choice whether or not to enter a smoking establishment.Now it's imposed on you as you walk down the sidewalk.What sense does this make?How would this make you anti smoking folks happy?Now if I go somewhere with the kids I'm forced to walk through smoke with them vs simply not taking my kids in a bar.(which I said for example purposes only:)These ignorant laws do NOT help!It encourages loitering.BTW I went to Torch and that bar has a great vibe.All the smoking you want and no large groups of loitering people outside.

Posted by drp7773 on June 26, 2008 at 10:15 a.m. (Suggest removal)

Very good point RTC,

When I went into a bar I knew smoking was going to be taking place so it was my choice to go in. But how hard would it be to put a sign under the big sign out front ...Smoke free come on in and enjoy the non watering eyes and sore throat atmosphere or Smoking allowed.......come on in a cough up a lung.which ever YOU choose will be your decision not the local yokles......Yes I used to smoke but quit many moons ago and I still think a choice is the better move here..

Posted by jammanofdi on June 26, 2008 at 10:31 a.m. (Suggest removal)

I'm not a smoker - never have been, but I think that it's ridiculous how this has played out. I'm originally from Greenville and it really ticked me off when that happened there as well. I mean, "land of the free"??? Since when? As long as an establishment gives the option of a smoking/no smoking section, I cannot see how they can force the entire bar/restaurant to become no smoking. I do wish all of these no smoking bans were repealed and the businesses could go after the municipalities/courts to recover any money that they've lost because of these bans, but sadly that won't be the case - the smoking bans are here to stay. On another note, Torch - coolfreaknbeans? Hmmm.. To each his own, but there's alot that you can deduce from a Torch patron. Anyone considering hanging out there should do some research before going there. I went there once with some friends also. Interesting place, that Torch Bar...

Posted by berthelot on June 26, 2008 at 10:31 a.m. (Suggest removal)

MSC:

Dunleavy's and Poe's both have outdoor seating for smokers.

Posted by shoelaces on June 26, 2008 at 10:40 a.m. (Suggest removal)

Didn't the city have to pay people to sweep up the butts on the sidewalks from all the smokers outside the bars and restaurants or was that just a radio rumor?

It is annoying now just to walk down the sidewalks because the smokers are all outside where the air was sort of fresh.

As for Dunleavy's and Poe's those are much different atmospheres than Bert's was. The locals went to Bert's just to hang out with other locals, drink beer, and listen to loud music. The patrons of Bert's didn't really care about drink specials, karaoke, or TV trivia gimmicks. It was sort of like Cheers.... a "where everybody knows your name" kind of place and couldn't care less if you just walked off the construction site, the beach, or the office. And they smoked.

Posted by coolfreaknbeans on June 26, 2008 at 11:07 a.m. (Suggest removal)

jammanofdi-I'm very curious now.I went to Torch once with my out of town guest.It was a slow night,service was good,music was good.It was a little boring if anything....What have you heard?I asked bartenders and other people out and about who said it was a laid back cool place to go.It's a smoker type lounge.Please share any gossip youve heard.I dont wanna go again and be shocked and awed.LOL BTW-I personally would never make assumptions about anyone because of a bar they went too.I've been to a gay bar with other straight friends-and I assure you I'm not gay.LOL

Posted by jammanofdi on June 26, 2008 at 12:16 p.m. (Suggest removal)

Yeah coolfnb,

Before I start this story, let me say that I do not criticize anyone based on their sexual orientation. That being said, I went there with some friends about a year ago and like I said - had an interesting experience. We went (with some girls that I am friends with) and walk in and everyone is in patent leather, there was a dj playing this kind of odd german techno, all of the lights inside were red. Everyone there kind of kept to themselves, but right off the bat I knew something was up. I kept asking the girls we were with if my suspicions were correct and she kept telling me that I was crazy and that it definitely was not a gay bar. After about an hour I looked over and found another girl that I'm friends with - who actually is gay. She looked shocked as h3ll when she saw me there and told me that it was indeed a gay bar and that Torch probably wasn't the place for me. As the night wore on, things steadily got more risque and strange and we finally had enough and left the girls that brought us there (we should have taken the hints - they probably weren't into us anyway - lol!) Anyway - a couple of weeks earlier I found a flier on my windshield for some sort of "Transgendered Mardi Gras" party that was being held there. So I called the girl that took me there in the first place to quiz her more about it and ask her why she'd take me there in the first place - to which she replied, "it's only a gay bar every other day of the week." Now I have a friend that bartends at another bar downtown and actually has helped out there before and he verified that it is indeed a gay bar - a very gay bar... (not that there's anything wrong with that!)

Posted by drkralc on June 26, 2008 at 12:22 p.m. (Suggest removal)

What happened to proprietors rights? Shouldn't someone have the ability to operate a business on a proprietors intentions? Where did the "Pursuit of happiness" go? Last I checked SC is a "right to work" state. Employees should be fully aware of the consequences of the workplace before they are employed otherwise, find another job. If restrictions of this type can be imposed upon the service industry imagine what they could do in the industrial sector...

Posted by coolfreaknbeans on June 26, 2008 at 1:35 p.m. (Suggest removal)

OMG!LMBO!Really???How hilarious!I took my sister in law there!I wouldve died laughing and of embarrassment if it was full of gay people making out and I thought it was just a smokers lounge bar.(still wouldve had fun people watchn lol)My SIL wouldve been like wow-do you need to tell me something?LOL We only saw a straight couple and a few guys watching the game.Wow.How interesting.At least I'm prepared now.I thought you were implying things cause it was a hookah bar.No leather or whips when we were there.I guess I'd better call first before I take my spouse out for a night on the town.Thanks for filling me in :)

Posted by coolfreaknbeans on June 26, 2008 at 1:38 p.m. (Suggest removal)

Oh wow.I just thought of when she and I were asking about places to go...they probably assumed we were gay.I can't wait to tell her.This is too funny.

Posted by jammanofdi on June 26, 2008 at 1:52 p.m. (Suggest removal)

Yep... Well now you know. I had a similar experience in Greenville so I can relate. My friends and I were in downtown G'ville looking for a place to get dinner and a guy on the street recommended this cajun restaurant on Main St. (if you're from there you know where I'm talking about) - so we all went (a group of about 10 guys). We had a blast - the dinner was excellent and the atmosphere was cool so we went back several more times. It wasn't until I took my parents out to eat there that they had to fill me in (yes, my parent's caught on before I did)... Ordinarily I would be totally embarrassed at something like that, but because of the circumstances of the whole thing - it was hysterical!

Posted by ColdBeer on June 26, 2008 at 2:21 p.m. (Suggest removal)

If the owner of an establishment wants to let his patrons smoke cigarettes (or in the case of the Torch Bar, pole) that should be the owners prerogative.

A couple of friends and I were out for a night on the town in Charlotte. I go to Charlotte often on business, but I am not that familiar with the night life. We went to Coyote Ugly first. What a hole in the ground. A fun hole in the ground, but a hole in the ground just the same. They don't serve food (unless you count the chips in the snack machine) so we started walking. We went in to what appeared to be a nice place. Crammed packed. I ordered a Bud Light, bottle, no glass. The bartender looked at me like I was trash. "We only serve beer that we brew here" he informed me. I ordered some dandelion tasting crappy beer and paid like $8.50 for one glass. There was no place to sit so we wandered to the far end of the place where 2 pool tables stood. They had the typical wall mounted ledge with bar stools around the pool tables, so we sat there. Before we could order, we noticed there was not one woman in the place. As we looked through the menus, we noticed that a skinny, bald, leather clad man had worked his way over to our area and was pretending to be interested in playing pool. In reality, he was just strutting and posing with his pool cue.

We left the dandelion brew and the "men" to themselves. The place directly across the street confirmed that, yes, the first place was a gay bar. We had a very nice dinner in the second place... then we returned to Coyote Ugly :)

Posted by Yeah_I_said_it on June 26, 2008 at 2:40 p.m. (Suggest removal)

Ah, Cheers!

Making your way in the world today takes everything you've got.
Taking a break from all your worries, sure would help a lot.

Wouldn't you like to get away?

Sometimes you want to go

Where everybody knows your name,
and they're always glad you came.
You wanna be where you can see,
our troubles are all the same
You wanna be where everybody knows
Your name.

You wanna go where people know,
people are all the same,
You wanna go where everybody knows
your name.

Posted by ForPnC on June 26, 2008 at 2:43 p.m. (Suggest removal)

I smoke but not indoors (except for bars.) I also don't smoke in crowds.

I vote we ban kids from restaurants. Nasty, noisy, things with irresponsible parents give me a headache. I always tell the waitress to seat me where there are no kids and do not seat them around me. I'm always pleasantly surprised that this happens. I ask nicely and they oblige.

Posted by ColdBeer on June 26, 2008 at 2:47 p.m. (Suggest removal)

Kids and old men that fart.

Posted by jammanofdi on June 26, 2008 at 5:32 p.m. (Suggest removal)

Smoking pole! haha Coldbeer - I can always depend on you for a laugh. Funny, several weeks ago I photoshopped a picture of a friend of ours into what could only be described as an " very awkward" scene. The only problem was that we needed a location and story to go along with where this photo was allegedly taken. A buddy of mine came up with the caption "---- was spotted at the Trollin' For Some Polin' fishing event at Torch Bar, Downtown Charleston, SC"!

Posted by shoelaces on June 26, 2008 at 6:08 p.m. (Suggest removal)

So what you are saying is that Torch should be renamed "Flame" right? Or Flamin'

As for screaming children, I am with you. The only problem is that they won't let me leave mine at the bar when we go to eat....what gives????

Posted by coolfreaknbeans on June 26, 2008 at 8:08 p.m. (Suggest removal)

OK I broke down and called Torch.I straight up asked,"Are you a gay bar?"He responded,"Absolutely!" and then roared with laughter and said,"Uhh no.""I mean we have gay people who come in here." I said yeah you and every other bar in downtown Chareston as I laughed.He said "Is that a problem?(while laughing)I said no.He said"we also let Mexicans in" I replied Do you ask for green cards?We both laughed and ended our conversation.So no Torch is NOT a gay bar.Gay people are allowed in *gasp*,but its not a gay bar.Can I just tell you how stupid I felt even asking?Oh well.we know now.

Posted by rollo on June 26, 2008 at 9:24 p.m. (Suggest removal)

There is absolutely 0, none, non-existent scientific evidence that ETS has ever harmed anyone.

Posted by jammanofdi on June 27, 2008 at 9:15 a.m. (Suggest removal)

Hmm. Well - that's odd... I know that they hold "gay themed" parties - like I said, I got a flier on my car for one. Maybe they - I don't know.. Maybe they just don't advertise as totally gay or something - I'm really not sure. Thanks for getting to the bottom of that though - even though that leaves even more unanswered questions for me!

Posted by kerwin1959 on June 27, 2008 at 1:11 p.m. (Suggest removal)

I never knew how nice it would be to go into a bar until they banned smoking in Greenville. I hate it for those who smoke--really, because I would feel an injustice if I was a smoker.

However, after my daughter telling me a story of a friend of hers who can expel all the air in his lungs by coughing a certain way. He did it after they had been in a bar where smoking is allowed(he doesn't smoke), and she said the amount of smoke he "coughed" up was unbelievable(and very visible!). I'm trying to get them to record it and put it on YouTube. It made me a believer about 2nd hand smoke.

Restaurant and bar owners in downtown Greenville say they have actually noticed an increase in business since the smoking ban. I guess there are more non-smokers than we think.