Gas costs, looting reasons to stay?By Bo Petersen (Contact)
The Post and Courier
Friday, July 25, 2008
"Don't arrest anybody. Beat 'em. We have nowhere to put them." - Reuben Greenberg, former Charleston police chief, instructing officers about looters after Hurricane Hugo. Gasoline. Looters. That's why one in every four people who live within 20 miles of the coast won't evacuate in the face of a hurricane, even if evacuations are ordered. The numbers come from a phone survey commissioned by the Harvard School of Public Health. The poll focused on people who lived in the Gulf Coast areas hit by Hurricane Katrina in 2005 but was expanded as far up the Southeast coast as North Carolina. The cost of gas and memories of television reports of rampage and looting in the wake of Katrina are the biggest reasons why people said they wouldn't go. They have more trust in the stability of their homes. Harvard officials called the results alarming. The Lowcountry saw its share of looting and vandalism after Hurricane Hugo in 1989. And everyone is aware there are far more people and more high-dollar homes in the region today. But emergency officials aren't so sure the survey results are real life. And even residents who say they wouldn't leave have other reasons for the decision; they say they would leave if a storm were serious enough. Donald O'Connor of Edisto Island shot a looter in the aftermath of Hurricane Hugo in 1989 while protecting the store he ran on James Island. He'd stay put in a storm, unless he felt his life was in danger. His home, like others along the coast, is built well enough to withstand a storm, he said. But no, he's not worried about looters. "They know me around here. I don't think anybody would try anything with me," he said. "You're always going to have looters." Leigh Handal spent five hours getting from her home on James Island to the North Charleston Coliseum in a borrowed van full of her pets during the Hurricane Floyd evacuation debacle in 1999. She remembers being stopped dead still in I-26 traffic as the first storm bands of Floyd struck, staring up at the Montague Avenue Exit 1 mile sign, where she would turn to go to the coliseum. She's researched flood maps and thinks her home will stand a flood surge up to 8 feet. "It's going to take a big storm to pry this girl out," she said. But she bought a big red pickup truck in the wake of Floyd, just in case she has to evacuate. Worries about the cost of gasoline, she said, are just hype. "Gas — that's just a case where you do what you have to do. Say it used to cost $50 to gas up and now it costs $100. I'm not going to risk my life for that $50 difference." Cathy Haynes, Charleston County emergency preparedness director, said she hears from people who say they won't evacuate, but the cost of gasoline isn't a reason. Looting is always a concern. But emergency plans call for law enforcement to be out before and after a storm. State emergency managers are concerned about smaller gas stations along evacuation routes not filling up storage tanks and motorists not completely filling up their cars because of the cost. The state has contracted with distributors to supply fuel to stations in a pending evacuation, and asks people to evacuate at least 20 miles inland to a shelter. State Law Enforcement Division agents, Highway Patrol, Natural Resources officers and the National Guard will assist local law enforcement, said Derrec Becker, state Emergency Management Division public information coordinator. National Guard troops have a mutual aid pact with nearby states to bring in manpower as needed. "Yes, some people won't leave. But there are law enforcement officers who won't, too," he said. "Heed that (evacuation) warning. Your life is what's more important to us." Charleston Police Maj. Herb Whetsell was on the force during Hugo, when former Chief Reuben Greenberg all but announced vigilante justice to keep looters in check. Any looting that takes place tends to be at businesses and malls "where it's easy to get in, get out and be gone. People who stay behind will take care of themselves and their neighbors," he said. Harvard did the same survey in 2006 and came back with the same percentages, except the big reason people said they wouldn't leave then was their fear of shelters. Reach Bo Petersen at 745-5852 or bpetersen@ postandcourier.com. |
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Comments
This article has 39 comment(s)
Posted by iceman1978 on July 25, 2008 at 1:10 a.m. (Suggest removal)
I live on James Island and it would have to be a four or worse for me to leave. Even then I would probably try to park my car at a parking garage downtown and stay at the Charleston Place for a couple of days. That way I could get back to my home quickly once the storm passed.
Other than that I would stay right where I'm at.
Posted by geekguy2008 on July 25, 2008 at 1:57 a.m. (Suggest removal)
We all know this is exactly why those "poor, unfortunate" people wouldn't leave Louisiana. It's just funny that it took the media this long to figure that out.
Posted by Thomas1776 on July 25, 2008 at 2:36 a.m. (Suggest removal)
"Don't arrest anybody. Beat 'em. We have nowhere to put them." - Reuben Greenberg, former Charleston police chief, instructing officers about looters after Hurricane Hugo.
And Riley agreed to what Greenberg ordered. It was talked about over their communication airwaves. I had a police scanner back then and remember.
Posted by Thomas1776 on July 25, 2008 at 2:40 a.m. (Suggest removal)
Wait till John's Island is all developed and bees ferry is packed to the hilt. It's back to what happen with Hugo except 1000 times worst. Nothing can be done to correct what is coming either. Nothing at all. Money and profit rules over a lives.
Posted by ForPnC on July 25, 2008 at 4:10 a.m. (Suggest removal)
I just moved down here a couple of years ago (Love it!) I've never been through a hurricane so really have no idea if I would evacuate or not. If I stayed I sure would shoot to kill. I'd even do it for the gallon of gas they're trying to get from my tank. If they think their lives are worth four dollars a gallon they'll find I think it's worth less.
I'm sick of these damned thieves thinking I should bust my butt to make a living for them.
Posted by Tammie on July 25, 2008 at 7:28 a.m. (Suggest removal)
I know all the natives remember the tragedy of an evacuation called HURRICANE FLOYD. I've never spent that much time on I-26 ever. Thene there was Charlie, my job flew me to Indianapolis to work for that one and NOTHING HAPPENED HERE. I was here for Hugo, my family and I stayed (I slept through it, I was 12). I'm not sure what I'd do in the unfortunate event another hurricane hits us.
Posted by Neponset on July 25, 2008 at 7:38 a.m. (Suggest removal)
Thomas
I agree - with all the growth since Hugo, its going to be differcult or impossible to get everyone out. I am thinking local higher ground - Summerville.
ForPnC
They call this the "Low Country" for reason - if we get hit by the north side of a big storm, we will see a big storm surge, which would flood large areas.
Posted by EvilGenius on July 25, 2008 at 7:39 a.m. (Suggest removal)
Katrina - New Orleans' Mayor Ray Nagin failed to evacuate citizens before Hurricane Katrina struck and then gun grabbing jack-boots step in;
http://youtube.com/watch?v=-taU9d26wT4
"In the days leading up to Hurricane Katrina, hundreds of buses were sitting in bus yards, some less than a mile from the Superdome. Louisiana Governor Kathleen Babineaux Blanco commented, "The buses could have saved an estimated 20,000 people if they had been used for emergency evacuations which President Bush had declared two days before Katrina hit."
TAKE CARE OF YOURSELF AND YOUR FAMILY! Do not depend on some bloated government bureaucracy, to save you.
Posted by DoaMM on July 25, 2008 at 7:51 a.m. (Suggest removal)
Doesn't matter how bad the storm is, my job requires I stay here and help out the poor, unfortunate citizens that WON'T take care of themselves and trust that government will protect them...
Losers...
Ahhh...Job Security...
Posted by beth1070 on July 25, 2008 at 7:57 a.m. (Suggest removal)
My husband and I have not worked our butts off to have low life opportunist looters rob us blind because we have to evacuate during a hurricane. I have absolutely no problem whatsoever protecting the things that I have worked so hard to acquire in my life.
Posted by DoaMM on July 25, 2008 at 8:06 a.m. (Suggest removal)
(Let's see...8 + 1 rounds in my .45 with all the power out and someone is rustling through what's left of my life...hmmmm...)
Bang! Bang! Bang! Bang! Bang! Bang! Bang! Bang! Bang!
"HALT!!"
(...yeah, that's better...)
Posted by carolinapanther on July 25, 2008 at 8:16 a.m. (Suggest removal)
Thomas1776, what is wrong with what chief greenberg ordered during hugo? I have no problem with that, in fact that gives me confindence that the mayor will protect our property in the event of another storm.
Posted by Early on July 25, 2008 at 8:19 a.m. (Suggest removal)
Ice, beer and a generator, that's all ya need!
Oh, and bug spray. I remember after Hugo, no mosquitoes were absolutely horrible!
Posted by Early on July 25, 2008 at 8:39 a.m. (Suggest removal)
Sorry, the mosquitoes were bad,,,to many beers is guess.
Posted by Pols101 on July 25, 2008 at 8:40 a.m. (Suggest removal)
If the Ole Chief had been in New Orleans for Katrina things would have bee very different!
Posted by Tammie on July 25, 2008 at 8:48 a.m. (Suggest removal)
Early, you're popping tabs this early..? Lol
Posted by 512c on July 25, 2008 at 9:33 a.m. (Suggest removal)
I want to stay, and surf.. my wife has never been through a hurricane, but I have danced with them several times... I love em!
Posted by willbillbedamned on July 25, 2008 at 10:11 a.m. (Suggest removal)
carolinapanther, what's wrong is that's not the law. Like it or not, the law provides methods for handling criminals. Look at Bush and see what happens when people in power place themselves above the law.
Posted by ysillyme on July 25, 2008 at 10:28 a.m. (Suggest removal)
willbedammed~
Mind giving your street address? I could use some stuff without fear of being shot (not the law mon). Don't look at Bush, look at Carter when Americans place themselves below International Law i.e. hostage situation. BTW, I need a new weedeater, got one bubba? Is pink your favorite color?
Posted by SCPDBLUE on July 25, 2008 at 10:43 a.m. (Suggest removal)
I was a rookie on the job when Greenberg made that statement over the radio.I was also working when that looter was shot by that store employee. I was told by fellow LEO's that the suspect was shot in the butt with a .357 Magnum.To bad he didnt aim higher,then the tax paying people of S.C. would not have had to pay for his medical,rehab or his stay in jail.It would have been a open and shut case of self defense... If a storm like Hugo or Katrina heads our way,leave the area,dont wait till the last minute. If you cant leave I say Lock and Load,post your property in english and in spanish before and after the storm. This will let the looters know that the owner will defend his family and his property.Dont wait for FEMA.learn from the past so that you do not repeat it in the future.
Posted by ysillyme on July 25, 2008 at 11:08 a.m. (Suggest removal)
scpdblue~
Wouldn't a picture of a 9mm accomplish the same thing?
Posted by Johnq2 on July 25, 2008 at 11:33 a.m. (Suggest removal)
Posted by SCPDBLUE on July 25, 2008 at 10:43 a.m. (Suggest removal)
I was a rookie on the job when Greenberg made that statement over the radio.I was also working when that looter was shot by that store employee. I was told by fellow LEO's that the suspect was shot in the butt with a .357 Magnum.To bad he didnt aim higher,then the tax paying people of S.C. would not have had to pay for his medical,rehab or his stay in jail.It would have been a open and shut case of self defense... If a storm like Hugo or Katrina heads our way,leave the area,dont wait till the last minute. If you cant leave I say Lock and Load,post your property in english and in spanish before and after the storm. This will let the looters know that the owner will defend his family and his property.Dont wait for FEMA.learn from the past so that you do not repeat it in the future.
______________________________________________________
The P&C should trace this idiots IP and alert the police department this bloodthirsty little jackboot jerk works for (if he is a cop) so they can take action to get this idiots weapon and fire him before he gets a chance to put his dreams into action.
10 to 1 if he is a cop he works for Boatwright on Folly. Only Boatwright would intentionally give a jackboot turd like this a job.
No wonder people hate the police, if they were all like you people would be shooting them down in the street like dogs. We can only hope you get taken out soon by a patriotic citizen who saves the rest of us the trouble of having to put you on trial when you finally live out your sick fantasies.
Posted by beth1070 on July 25, 2008 at 11:37 a.m. (Suggest removal)
Our next door neighbors during Hugo were Liberal-loving, tree-hugging, non-gun toting Democrats who didn't believe that looting would be a problem in the days and weeks following Hugo when we had no power and no way to call for help should someone decide to permanently "borrow" all the things we held dear in life. So late one night when they heard someone rumbling around in their garage they quickly got a good dose of reality and realized that someone was trying to steal their mowers, bicycles, and kids' go-carts. After my neighbor got over the shock that this was really happening, he decided to introduce the thug to a baseball bat, a line drive to the knee caps to be exact. Needless to say, that looter wasn't capable of looting from anyone else for several months, and my former neighbor is now a conservative Republican who realizes that sometimes you DO have to take the law into your own hands.
Posted by iceman1978 on July 25, 2008 at 11:48 a.m. (Suggest removal)
beth, For the first few days after a hurricane you are basically going to be on your own. That means food, water, meds, supplies, candles, batteries, etc has to last upwards of one week at least. It's always good to have books, board games, cards or something that you can use to keep yourself entertained during the day. Self-defense is a must. Handgun, rifle, mace, baseball bat, anything that you can use to protect yourself.
Posted by Johnq2 on July 25, 2008 at 11:53 a.m. (Suggest removal)
beth1070-
You need to snap out of the Limbaugh fog that you seem to be lost in.
Are you really so brainwashed that you believe only "conservative republicans" are the only people armed or willing to defend their homes? Do you really think getting robbed is what made your neighbor become a non tree hugging, gun toting republitard?
Don't worry though Beth, your precious republican party will soon be gone and the Democrats will be in charge. We will still protect your terrified pathetic ass from the meanies who want to "borrow" all the things you hold dear in life like your "mowers, bicycles, and kids' go-carts".
BOO!
Posted by suec on July 25, 2008 at 11:54 a.m. (Suggest removal)
I lived through Hugo and will not stay if another cat 4 or maybe even a 3 comes this way.
My "stuff" is not worth myself or a family member being killed or hurt.
Posted by iceman1978 on July 25, 2008 at 12:03 p.m. (Suggest removal)
suec, If I were to stay I would still make sure I was armed. To me it's not even an issue of being liberal or conservative. It's an issue of the fundamental right to self-defense. Your stuff might not be worth putting yourself in danger for but the protection of your family probably is. When someone breaks into your home you have no idea what their intentions are. They're likely coming to steal but they could be coming to do much worse. You hope for the best but be prepared for the worst just in case. My advise would be to evacuate unless you feel that your home would be safer.
At least with hurricanes you have warning. Anyone ever been through earthquakes? Where you are is where you are when it happens. You could be in a safe building, or you could be on a freeway overpass.
Posted by beth1070 on July 25, 2008 at 12:20 p.m. (Suggest removal)
iceman..thanks for the info. I have lived right here in the lowcountry my whole life and weathered quite a few storms, and many more to come I'm sure. That's all just part of the fun of living on the coast. But you make some very good points for those who have not been through a hurricane and might not know what to expect.
johnq2...I have absolutely no confidense whatsoever that a democratic government has any intentions or the competence to protect any of us from anything, foreign or domestic. You, my friend, are the one who needs to stop living in a fog of your own making. There's a difference between being paranoid and being realistic.
Posted by Early on July 25, 2008 at 12:28 p.m. (Suggest removal)
Don't forget toilet paper either, that's a real bitch when you run out of that and no open stores. The local sawgrass is NOT an option!
Posted by beth1070 on July 25, 2008 at 12:32 p.m. (Suggest removal)
Early...you sound like you are speaking from experience on the toilet paper issue and the sawgrass...LMAO!
Posted by Early on July 25, 2008 at 1:24 p.m. (Suggest removal)
Most true, most true!!!!!!
Missing socks!
Posted by EvilGenius on July 25, 2008 at 1:50 p.m. (Suggest removal)
I love the cops (as long as they dont pull what those thugs in uniform pulled after Katrina), I think they should shoot more bad guys...LOOTERS are the scum of the scum...SHOOT THEIR Arses!
Johnq, what fog are you in? It seems like a permanent condition.
Posted by ChrisPia on July 25, 2008 at 1:57 p.m. (Suggest removal)
Most states Have Laws on the Books that Allows Officers to Shoot Looters During National and Local Emergencies...Anyone know if SC has This Law....What Most People Don't Understandis that Manpower and More Important Emergenies are a Priority during these Times.
Posted by VMI90 on July 25, 2008 at 2:04 p.m. (Suggest removal)
I don't trust the government or police in just about any situation. I will stay at home unless it is a strong 4 or 5 storm. That being said, the way to evacuate is to do what everyone else is NOT doing. During the Floyd fiasco, my family drove north- up Hwy 17, took US 52, behind some logging trucks, and picked up I-20 around Florence. We made it to Greenville in 5 1/2 hrs... I knew better than to take I-26 West...
Posted by Johnq2 on July 25, 2008 at 2:57 p.m. (Suggest removal)
ChrisPia-
I don't have a problem with people defending themselves or protecting their property during an emergency. I do however have a problem with someone who claims to be a police officer advocating shooting someone in the BACK!!
No offense to the law enforcement types but shooting someone in the back usually means they are going away from you. We expect police officers to be better than that.
Posted by eatmorecollards on July 25, 2008 at 4:50 p.m. (Suggest removal)
I remember Hugo well. Anyone from here that one would talk to that stayed will tell you they were stupid for doing so, especially if they lived from Sullivans Island north to McClellenville. A person may have been perfectly safe just a few miles south of where it came in. Some may tell you they slep through it. Those on the north side of the eye wall will have a different story. Most on the north side will say they prayed, even those who had never prayed before. Along Hwy 17 in Awendaw the sea water came over it about 4 feet high. One man I knew in Awendaw who had a strong masonry house and stayed, said that when the water started rising he pulled himself and his wife into the attic. He ended up having to beat a hole in the roof with his fist. He and his wife spent the rest of the storm holding on to the chimney. He said the water came up to thier knees and when the lightning flashed, it looked as if they were in the middle of the ocean. He lived about 3 miles from the sea. Even on James Island which was to the south of the storm, many houses were destroyed when large pines came crashing down through them, all the way through to the floor. Luckily most evacuated. If not, many would have died.
The Aftermath
Be prepared to go about 3 weeks without power. You will stand in long lines to get ice. Cutting trees is sweaty work in the hot sun. You will see the darkest nights you have ever seen as no place will have power. For several days the smell of gas, oil, fresh cut wood and mildew will be in the air. The mosquitoes will be devastating. There will be lots of free food as grocery stores will be giving away perishables and aid agencies will be handing out stuff also. Keep some cash back, there will be lots of good deals on stuff. Generators and chain saws will sell at a premium and some places will try to gouge you on gasoline. You will see neighbor helping neighbor, one of the good aspects of it. Every one will be trying to get back to normal as fast as possible.
Posted by scconservative on July 25, 2008 at 5:10 p.m. (Suggest removal)
I like the good Self Defense COnservatives on the P&C site, they know better than to put their lives in the hands of some Gooberment Official....however John2q still needs a dose of reality to get over the Lieberal nonsense! Wonder what the Libs will do when BHO goes down in a Dukookoo defeat. We can only hope they move to their beloved Cuba.
Posted by SCSIGirl2 on July 25, 2008 at 6:10 p.m. (Suggest removal)
Iceman - I've been through earthquakes here in CA, and you'r right - you are where you are when it hits, but it only lasts for seconds to minutes, yes, the devastation is bad if you're close to the epicenter. I remember where I was for the Nortridge quake, about 50 miles away, it was a long rocking motion, and when Big Bear/Landers hit, the house felt like it was hit by a big rig without any damage, I watched the transformers blowing out along the San Bernardino mountain range.
Which, by the way, I was living in N Chas when Hurricane Fran was threatening to land in SC, the news broadcast it for days!! I was sick the whole time worrying about it. It did not make landfall in SC, it devasted Wilmington, NC.
Both are unstoppable forces of nature, which is worse? I don't have an answers as I wasn't in a hurricane, but I sure miss the "Low Country" :o)
Posted by ChrisPia on July 25, 2008 at 6:36 p.m. (Suggest removal)
Johnq2...The Laws I stipulated would apply if they were standing on their hands carrying the TV with their feet...The Police do not Have the manpower to control this and this law is meant to control/Deter looting.
I recommend Everyone defend their lives and be smart about defending your Property... Property can be replaced.Lives can't.
Mr Greenburg Probably had the option to shoot the looters But Chose the lesser of Force to deter this.I respect him for making this decision in troubled times and standing by it.