Supermarket painShopping for food becoming nightmarish as costs continue to climb relentlessly By Prentiss Findlay (Contact)
The Post and Courier
Thursday, July 17, 2008
Up, up and awaySome of the main reasons food prices have been increasing so quickly: Rising fuel prices have increased costs of transporting food. The weak U.S. dollar has fueled a rise in U.S. exports, including agricultural products. Some of this food is going to feed demand in countries such as China and India because their standards of living are improving. Commodity costs for corn, wheat, soybeans and milk, which are used in all sorts of foods, are sharply higher. Source: Food Marketing Institute 
Grace Beahm Robin Edwards shops at Save-A-Lot in West Ashley. Edwards has changed some of her shopping habits, including buying frozen vegetables such as broccoli instead of fresh because of the price difference. Savings tipsMake a food list and stick to it. Seek bargains on in-season produce at local farmers' markets. Switch to store brands. Clip coupons. SmartMoney.com suggests several Web sites: www.coupons.com>, www.grocerygame.com and www.redplum.com. Sign up for your supermarket's frequent-shopper program to take advantage of bonus sales. Carefully plan meals to reduce impulse purchases and to cut down on trips to the supermarket. Food prices are soaring, the economic outlook is bleak, and Robin Edwards is without a job. Now more than ever, she has to make smart choices with her grocery budget. Frozen instead of fresh broccoli, chicken thighs instead of breasts, a half-gallon of milk instead of a gallon are some of the changes she has made. On Friday, she lost her job as an assembly production worker at Summerville-based emergency vehicle-maker American LaFrance, a position she held for three months. She is contacting temp services looking for employment, and hopes she is called back to her job soon. She has filed for unemployment. "I'm a single parent, and it hits hard. The prices are so high," she said Wednesday at the Save-A-Lot Food Store on Sam Rittenberg Boulevard. Fresh government figures show that inflation shot up in June at the second-fastest pace in 26 years, with two-thirds of the surge blamed on soaring energy prices. And it's taking a nasty bite out of peoples' budgets. The U.S. Department of Labor reported that consumer prices jumped 1.1 percent last month, much worse than had been expected. While shopping at the Food Lion on S.C. Highway 61, Joanna Royster said she feeds three kids and two adults on $530 per month in food stamps. Her extended family also helps. Her husband, a route salesman, is hospitalized with an abdominal aortic aneurysm. Disability payments are coming, but approval is slow. She misses fresh produce. "I end up buying frozen vegetables on sale," she said. On Wednesday, Royster had fresh carrots in her cart, but that was a special treat. Her kids are ages 4, 11 and 15. "With school being out, they're eating me out of house and home, so it's particularly hard right now," she said. She is more of a coupon clipper and bargain hunter now. She stopped going to Wal-Mart Super Center in West Ashley for groceries because of gas prices. She stresses conservation to her children. Don't waste food and bathroom products, she tells them. "It's trying times right now," she said. Energy prices rocketed upward by 6.6 percent, reflecting big increases for gasoline, home heating oil and natural gas. Food prices showed a big increase in June, rising by 0.7 percent, more than double the 0.3 percent increase of May. Vegetable prices shot up by 6.1 percent, the biggest increase in nearly three years, the AP reported. Also, at the S.C. Highway 61 Food Lion, Johnnie Mae Moore bemoaned a 5-pound bag of potatoes for $4.49 that used to cost $2.99. "The food prices have gotten really ridiculous," said Keith Foster, 37, her son. "Most of my paycheck goes to groceries and gas," Foster said. He is a stockroom manager. East Bay Street Harris Teeter shopper Muriel Bellow, a senior living on a fixed income, said she has quit buying Idaho baking potatoes, melons, peaches and bananas. Fresh broccoli is out. She cut her charitable donations to groups such as Amnesty International because of food and gas prices. "Everything is so expensive. Now I'm back to looking at prices, and let me tell you, I resent it. They're absolutely astonishing," she said. On Folly Road, Tommy and Kat Lopez were holding a garage sale Wednesday. The profit would go to gas and bills. "We are moving, but it's really hot and we probably wouldn't do this if we weren't hurting for money," Kat Lopez said. Tuesday marked the Lopezes' third week selling off trinkets and appliances, with prices reflecting demand: They're down to $10 for a carload and $20 for a truckload. James Island resident Jenny Brown said her family traded its aging, energy-inefficient dryer for a clothesline to keep the electric bill down this summer. She also decided to try out cloth diapers with her 3-week-old daughter. Instead of shelling out $12 a week for a pack of the throw-away product, she invested $200 for a full year's supply of the washable variety. "Plus, this is good for the environment," Brown said. James Island resident Marian Wigfall said she feels the pinch but hasn't made any changes to her routine. "I've been retired since '84, and I'm still living and still eating," she said. "But for young people, it's a big deal." A self-described evangelist, she said, "I depend on Jesus." At the Piggly Wiggly off U.S. Highway 78 in Ladson, Robert Leedy of Summerville said he isn't one to check many prices. He goes in and grabs what he needs and leaves. "There's nothing to cope with. You just have deal with it," he said. Jeanette Hardage of North Charleston tries to watch for advertised sales and clips coupons as much as possible. Lately, she's been shocked at the cost of milk. Santiago Myrian of Summerville is also feeling the pinch. She does not work and purchases groceries with $200 a month in food stamps. Myrian has cut her normal grocery list in half and tells her granddaughter to pick one thing at the store. "It's hard, especially for people who are not working," she said. "I don't know what's going to happen, but everything has changed." Jasiri Whipper and The Associated Press contributed to this report. |
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Comments
This article has 224 comment(s)
Posted by postman01 on July 17, 2008 at 1:18 a.m. (Suggest removal)
If Barack Obama is elected along with a DEM Congress, this will seem like a picnic by comparison.
Many voters are too young to remember this but just recall the Presidency of Jimmy Carter and his infamous "malaise" speech. Since I do remember the seventies, I don't want to see America or her people put through a repeat just to satisfy the gargantuan egos of far left wingers like Mr. Obama and Co.
Our nation and her people have enough problems without the gov't becoming the chief cause of them and exacerbating them.
Posted by rjcontego on July 17, 2008 at 1:21 a.m. (Suggest removal)
let's see...we've had a president in office for several years who was (is?) in the oil business and now gas prices are wrecking the american way of life... his cronies (and w himself in some way?) are raking in bilions and the peope are now wondering what's going on... it would seem obvious to me what's going... "where's the outrage?" as comedy central's bill mayer says...
Posted by Thomas1776 on July 17, 2008 at 2:20 a.m. (Suggest removal)
postman01,
Seems a vast majority of senior citzens with plenty of life experience and wisdome agree with you on Obama.
State representatives and leaders have ruined governments before across the nation. Some have even ended up in prison for white collar crimes they have committed, just like Congressmen and US Senators have along the way in our nations history.
In any event, it seems that many of these food price increases go well beyond justification. With the cost of gasoline increases compared with added fuel cost, it seems to me that many food providers are taking advantage of the same beyond fairness. I don't have to go into detail inasmuch everyone already knows. And everyone already knows that people will make opportunity of most anything that can put more green in their pocket; even if it means lying and cheating to do it.
Posted by whome on July 17, 2008 at 2:27 a.m. (Suggest removal)
postman01:
That's rich, blaming the Dems when the primary reason for increasing commodities/food prices is the collapsing dollar during the past 5 years. It's a bi-partisan mess, but I'd put most of the blame on the American consumer, sending hundreds of billions of dollar a year to the rest of the world via imports. Strengthen the dollar and the prices go down on commodities and food prices. To strengthen the dollar, we need to produce more and consume less; considering that we're an consumption based economy, one should see what happens when people just don't spend willy-nilly. RECESSION. Just ask Starbucks.
To the Post and Courier:
"Fresh government figures show that inflation shot up in June at the second-fastest pace in 26 years, with two-thirds of the surge blamed on soaring energy prices."
--------------------------
It was not inflation that shot up, but rather the Consumer Price Index. "Inflation is always and everywhere a monetary phenomenon," meaning the money supply is increasing too fast. In other words, there's too much money chasing too few goods, which USUALLY means higher prices. Counter-intuitively, we're actually going through DEFLATION. I think everyone would agree that there's TOO LITTLE money (or credit) in the system. Funny how falling assets (housing, stocks) does that.
By the time everyone finally realizes that we have deflation with a collapsing dollar, it's gonna get ugly.
Posted by BobH1962 on July 17, 2008 at 4:09 a.m. (Suggest removal)
Let's see she gets $530 a month in food stamps to feed 5 people and she shops at Food Lion. What about those of us that DO NOT get food stamps and do our grocery shopping at cheaper priced grocery stores? There are those of us in the community that have jobs and don't qualify for food stampt that still have to buy food to feed our families. It is called being a smart shopper, looking for bargains (few and far between) and finding ways to be more frugal with our money.
Posted by moonpie on July 17, 2008 at 6:26 a.m. (Suggest removal)
It's even slow at HOSPITALS! Where my daughter works they're talking of laying people off because where they did 60 test a day they do 7 now. Who would have thought that medical would slow when businesses slow? But if people don't have insurance they don't go to the hospitals unless your an illegal that is...They apparently don't have to pay for services as we Americans do.
I agree wait until Pres. Obama takes hold! You'll owe the gov when he gets done with his entitlements.
To the people in the story go get you a EBIT food card you really need it and deserve it.
Posted by RTC on July 17, 2008 at 7:09 a.m. (Suggest removal)
Telling members of your household not to waste is sound advice for all times.
Eating frozen vegetables is not the end of the world either.
Yes, times are hard, but those that came before us had it rough, and they made it through.
As for the lady that can't afford to donate to Amnesty International anymore.......give me a break!
Posted by teeitup on July 17, 2008 at 7:14 a.m. (Suggest removal)
What a dumb and stupid comment by rjcontego. The current administration has been in office for 8 years. The oil prices did not change much for 6 of those years, only the last 2 that the Democrats have been in control is when the oil prices have gone so much.
Posted by ColdBeer on July 17, 2008 at 7:24 a.m. (Suggest removal)
You know... it's just not that bad.
If you over extend yourself and build up a list of debt that leaves you no "wiggle room", you screwed yourself.
Blaming this on one political party or another is short-sided. They've all contributed to this mess but the main culprits are corporations. Business controls our economy, not the government.
Posted by Tammie on July 17, 2008 at 7:31 a.m. (Suggest removal)
If you have small children and fall within the income criteria, you can be approved for WIC. WIC helps out with milk, cereal, eggs and also, during this time of year, you are eligible to get Farmers Market vouchers. It's $25 per person in your household. If there are 3 of you, you get a voucher for $75. No more than 3 vouchers though. Plus, they tell you where to go, and when Farmers Markets are open. This is for anyone who knows anyone who needs help, no one on this Earth is above not needing help from time to time. Like RTC said, frozen veggies aren't the end of the world, I steam my broccoli and season it with Mrs. Dash and some garlic salt that I get from Dollar General for $.50. It's all about being a smart shopper. Clip coupons, shop around for the best deals, hell, if you can deal with it, buy an inferior good (store name as opposed to company name)! I can't stand to see some of my friends driving around in their nice new gas guzzlers and their stomachs are growling. Not my problem!
Posted by RW on July 17, 2008 at 7:41 a.m. (Suggest removal)
DRILL NOW!
Posted by STREETLAW on July 17, 2008 at 7:44 a.m. (Suggest removal)
And centralization and buying for a week instead of every other day.
Centralization means changing doctors, churches, lawyers, grocery stores, drug stores, etc. to get as many essentials within 3 miles of where you live. Shopping malls surrounded by condos in the mall might be the wave of the future.
Everything that helps people save gas will help bring down the price of groceries. And you might consider those store brands. Some of them taste better than the advertised brands.
Properly mobilized, this country can cut its depencency of oil imports in half in three years.
Hey what a great headline that would be. "EXXON LAYS OFF WORKERS."
Posted by Tammie on July 17, 2008 at 7:46 a.m. (Suggest removal)
Tripsa...how dare you mention McNuggets this early in the morning? Now you have me wanting some. I hate you, you Franzia drinking poo-head. :-) Love ya babe!
Seriously though, I have no problem with people get Food stamps...on a "need to receive them" basis. It's one thing if you are working, trying to get your life together, you're trying to do right by your children, etc. But your priorities are all effed up, I have a huge problem with that.
Posted by Paul on July 17, 2008 at 7:46 a.m. (Suggest removal)
The single biggest reason for the increase in food prices is th "Food for Oil" program. Takes 30% of our food(corn) for mandated Ethanol to produce 3% of our oil. All this ordered by our Big Oil/Business President.
A simple executive order cancelling the mandate and issuing a priority for Natural gas which we have in abundance and easily produced would cause both gas and food prices to drop immediately.
Posted by Tammie on July 17, 2008 at 7:49 a.m. (Suggest removal)
Streetlaw said: "And you might consider those store brands. Some of them taste better than the advertised brands."
Heck yeah!!! I buy store brand or off brand things quite a bit. Like frozen dinners for example. I'd eat Michelina's over Stouffer's 90% of the time. It's a LOT cheaper and depending on what you get, it's actually quite filling.
Posted by grannyofsix on July 17, 2008 at 7:53 a.m. (Suggest removal)
There is nothing wrong with can veggies either, if cooked right. Pour out the water rinse well and season. I have at one time had to rely on some canned meats as well. Large can of chili and a box of Mac and cheese mixed together9velveta type) make a great meal. I am the queen of food stretchers. Coupons do work as well, if you only clip the items you use not what you would like to have. Right now there is only one of us bringing in a paycheck so yes it can be hard grocery shopping.
Posted by ColdBeer on July 17, 2008 at 7:55 a.m. (Suggest removal)
Beer has not gone up in price yet :)
Posted by dogwoodroad on July 17, 2008 at 7:57 a.m. (Suggest removal)
I find this all very interesting. I am currently unemployed, as I am a full time graduate student living on student loans (which I'll be paying back on my own, with interest!)...I may not have any other mouths to feed, but I do have a mortgage and bills. Somehow, I am not complaining...I still have food, I just don't get to eat out as much as I used to, and I buy less meat - pasta and marinara sauce is a pretty cheap and tasty dinner (and when I'm really broke, you can't beat Ramen noodles!). I still have gas for my car, I just can't go out of town every weekend like I did last year (when I was employed full time). I still have clothes, I just don't get to buy new clothing from stores on King Street anymore - funny, the clothes at Target and WalMart fit just fine!
The energy and food prices are going up - that is true - however, maybe Americans have gotten too used to living in excess. I mean, I have a flat screen TV, but what on earth do we all need flat screen TVs for? It doesn't make us any healthier or happier!
Essentially, we have become a nation of complainers who expect to be provided with everything we would ever WANT...
Posted by Tammie on July 17, 2008 at 7:58 a.m. (Suggest removal)
One thing I have learned though, for some reason, when I get my fruit or veggies from WalMart, they do NOT last!! I bought a pound of nectarines a while back and they were FRESH when I got them. Not even 3 days later, they started getting brown and soggy. I checked the temp on my crisper, it was fine. I then bought some from Food Lion (my fruit has to ALWAYS be cold), they lasted for a lot longer. Wonder why? What the hell does WalMart spray their fruit with, Round Up?
Posted by RTC on July 17, 2008 at 7:58 a.m. (Suggest removal)
Another thing that is puzzling about this article is why would this lady's husband be eligible for disability for an abdominal aortic aneurysm? This is a condition that can be surgically repaired, and the person can go on and live a productive life. It can take easily up to a year or longer to get disabilty, so why would someone take the chance of this thing rupturing and causing almost instant death?
I can see him being out of work for awhile, but not needing to file for disability.
Posted by drp7773 on July 17, 2008 at 7:59 a.m. (Suggest removal)
530.00 a month and she is having trouble feeding 5 on this? and I'm eating bologna what spoiled ass BS is this.
Posted by RW on July 17, 2008 at 8:01 a.m. (Suggest removal)
DRILL NOW! DRILL NOW! DRILL NOW! See a trend here? The price of fuel effects everything! Guess who doesn't care if everything is expensive. That's right! The liberal democrats. All they want to do is attack the oi companies who bring us the oil! Say it over and over...drill now! drill now!
Posted by dogwoodroad on July 17, 2008 at 8:03 a.m. (Suggest removal)
An abdominal aortic aneurysm can be repaired by surgery, but sometimes there are complications which can lead to disability...it's not like in the game of Operation! Just so you know...
Posted by nikkiP on July 17, 2008 at 8:06 a.m. (Suggest removal)
You want to know how to save money and shop well? Ask a college student. Some of us have gotten that down to an art. Don't worry, your stomach will eventually build up a tolerance to some of the foods so the don't go straight through you.
Tripsa, I'm all down for drilling. But do you really think that'll lower oil prices? We'll have a great supply, but you know very well that the oil producers will just sell it over seas at either the same or a higher price. We get less than 10% of our oil from the middle east, and yet whenever there's "Turmoil" our prices go up, because they see it as an opportunity. That, and it's set at a global market price and for some reason our gas that comes mostly from Canada sells at that competitive price.
The CEO of Hess last year made $47 million.
And as far as parties go, the trickle down effect has proved more reliable than the Dem's approach. Also, the democratic congress likes raising taxes. I remember my friend's dad yelling at us to come listen to a radio show, where the topic was how a Dem Congress affects our economy. There was a sound clap of thundrous applause, cheering, whistling. You'd think they had just found a cure for AIDS. Um, no, they just raised our taxes in what was the biggest increase in American history. They were cheering... for raising our taxes.
Posted by Tammie on July 17, 2008 at 8:08 a.m. (Suggest removal)
CB, I think you have a still in your backyard...lol
Dogwood, I commend you for tightening your expenses and being a little smarter with your money. Plus, you are also continuing your education. Grad students get better looking loan checks than us undergrads! :-) Seriously though, watch yourself with the Ramen noodles, don't want you to get high blood pressure with all of that sodium.
Granny, you ever made macaroni noodles with butter and pepper? Mannnn...that's good. Lol
Posted by nikkiP on July 17, 2008 at 8:09 a.m. (Suggest removal)
Hey, speaking of disability, my neighbor across the street gets $4000 a month in disability because he supposedly hurt his back. Yet I saw him rollerblading through the neighborhood with his dog running on a leash with him.
Should that be reported? He makes more than twice what my mom make and he lives along and drives a BRAND NEW mustang..
Or should I just pour flour in his gastank?
Posted by dogwoodroad on July 17, 2008 at 8:12 a.m. (Suggest removal)
Thanks Tammie!
Actually - ramen noodles now come in a lower sodium/fat version called Choice Ramen - a little pricier, but still a meal for under a dollar (I think they cost 57 cents a package?)
Posted by Tammie on July 17, 2008 at 8:12 a.m. (Suggest removal)
Lmao @ Nikki!!! Don't do that! He's committing fraud and the insurance companies take that seriously. If he is getting 4g's a month Nikki, chances are, someone's already watching him!!!
Posted by Tammie on July 17, 2008 at 8:17 a.m. (Suggest removal)
Choice Ramen? Hmmm, haven't heard of it yet...I like the noodle bowls that WalMart have for $.87. The sodium content is off the charts but that's the first noodle bowl I've eaten and was satisfied. I don't eat it as much now that I am pregnant. Swollen ankles aint sexy.
Honestly, I shop for 3 people. Me and my best friend and her son. My best friend got laid off from her job so I make sure that when unemployment doesnt leave her with enough to buy groceries for her and her son, I help her out with as much as I can. That's the least I can do for her because my best friend has always been a blessing to me.
Posted by Neponset on July 17, 2008 at 8:18 a.m. (Suggest removal)
I usually expand the picture that is included in the articles - looks like she has selected some sort of preprepared food item.
I do the shopping and cooking and rarely buy preprepared foods, since they are expensive and not very good. If folks would get back to buying basic foods and cook from scratch, it would save money, taste better and be more healthy. Preprepared stuff is loaded with filler and sodium.
Posted by jmw9 on July 17, 2008 at 8:21 a.m. (Suggest removal)
Good stuff dogwoodroad.
Let's think of some positive thoughts.
We hopefully still have God in your life. Maybe we can realize that this is just a test. Maybe we will learn how we can save money so when things turn for the better we'll use that to beef up our accounts. Maybe we'll learn portion control with our food and slim this fat country down. Maybe we'll figure out how spoiled we are living irresponsibly and in excess - and in these tough times learn to appreciate what we have and work and live for.
Posted by Larz13 on July 17, 2008 at 8:22 a.m. (Suggest removal)
If Slick Willie had the foresight to drill when he was in office, then we would be reaping the benefits of the oil now.
Advice--check out www.grocerygame.com. It tells you what coupons are in the Sunday paper and which stores are having sales in that particular week. Quite efficient and does save a bunch of buckaroos.
And one last thing...for the wench who cannot donate to Amnesty International, I really feel sorry for you (sarcasm). I guess no money for the anti-Guantanimo ads now.
Another another last thing.....Franzia is still $7.99 a box at Total Wine.
Posted by Early on July 17, 2008 at 8:23 a.m. (Suggest removal)
I'm sick of the media hype, YES things are a little worse and if you look at our economic history this is normal BUT what we don't want is the government to try and help. That's what caused the demise in the 70's and 90's. Stay the F away, it will cycle.
The media is trying to put everybody in a state of panic for what, the mighty dollar they rake in in advertisements!!!
And, by yesterday's news, marijuana is at a all time high on THC and the price of a hooker is the lowest in years. Some folks have got to be happy right?
Posted by nikkiP on July 17, 2008 at 8:24 a.m. (Suggest removal)
I didn't mean it to come off like that, Tripsa! I'm sorry! But alot of people seem to tell me they think that drilling (even off our own coast) will lower gas prices down to what they were years ago. I remember when I started driving in high school, and gas was creeping up to $1.50 a gallon.
Did I just give a "when I was young" story?
Tammie, no flour in the gas tank? Laaaame. He's some super liberal, atheist butthead and I just kinda want to do something mean. But I'll refrain, maybe this disability fraud will catch up with him. Or I can knock on his door and say my mom and I want thank you notes for working to support the likes of him...
btw, I say athiest butthead, not because I dislike athiests. I just dislike the ones that tell me believing in God shows I can't think for myself and obviously have mental problems but parades around with some pretty ridic bumperstickers on his car.
Posted by grannyofsix on July 17, 2008 at 8:24 a.m. (Suggest removal)
There is a lot you can do with noodles. And don’t forget lima beans are a good source of protein as well. Fix a little rice and you have a meal with a piece of fresh hot buttered corn bread.
But like everyone else we play a waiting game. After November’s election I guess we just won’t know all we can do is hope that thing will get better. And please let there be jobs.
Posted by deerhunter on July 17, 2008 at 8:25 a.m. (Suggest removal)
Postman01 and Dogwoodroad have posted great comments and I truly think RTC makes a good point.
The media tells everyone "we need it now" and Americans
complied. We can get thru this as long as Obama stays out
of office.
Posted by nikkiP on July 17, 2008 at 8:29 a.m. (Suggest removal)
Early just made my morning. I'm glad the hookers are still cheap, otherwise I don't know what I'd do with my weekends anymore.
mmmm swollen ankles. But it's awesome that you're helping your friend, Tammie. I think we need more of the people (willingly) helping people and taking care of their own mentality. Less "make the government do this" kind of thing. Was it Reagan that would have commercials trying to boost the economy, where he just sat in the office and said "hey, here's a dandy little mixer! You should buy these..."? That was nice. That's about all the involvement I need.
Posted by ColdBeer on July 17, 2008 at 8:33 a.m. (Suggest removal)
Good post Early. I agree completely that public sentiment has a lot to do with where the economy goes. Sensationalistic news media coverage, such as this article, do nothing but create fear in the minds of those that don't really understand the economy. This, in turn, helps drive the economy lower.
Posted by Lovely_One on July 17, 2008 at 8:34 a.m. (Suggest removal)
I haven't read the comments yet, so here goes!
My husband and I feed 8 people on $400 a month in cash, we get by on $400 per month in gas, our electric bill hasn't exceeded $120 in the past 6 months (knock on wood) and that is with a washer and dryer being used weekly, and we pay $400 a month in child care for my youngest. We don't clip coupons, but we do bargain shop. We limit our trips to only what is necessary and we budget for EVERYTHING! We even budget before we go out to dinner (which isn't as often as I'd like). We look at the online menus and plan our meals and tip before leaving home. Trust me, budgeting works wonders and you spend less by doing so. Oh, we don't have cable or cell phones and we cut out any and all other expenses that we deem unnecessary from month to month. We aren't starving and we do not get any assistance to keep from doing so.
Posted by algorelost on July 17, 2008 at 8:36 a.m. (Suggest removal)
When democrates took control of the house Nancy P. promised us change. Gas was $2.30 a gal when she promised us that change, now it is over $4, I wonder if that is the type of change Obama wants to bring.
Posted by RTC on July 17, 2008 at 8:39 a.m. (Suggest removal)
dogwoodroad, I do know. I used to work in cardiolgy and other branches of the medical field. I'm not doubting this lady's word, I'm just saying that the article is puzzling, because they don't say why her husnband needs to file for disability. Even with complications, a person should either make a full recovery or they die. It's as simple as that.
They don't say whether he needs temporary or permanent disability. My brother had a very serious brain aneurysm, and he was left with some residual problems. He cannot however get disability.
Some people do abuse the disability gig, because they can get more money on disability than they can by working.
I'm not saying this is happening in this family's case, but it does happen.
Posted by nikkiP on July 17, 2008 at 8:49 a.m. (Suggest removal)
I used to listen to Rush until I realized crazy right wing is no better that crazy left wing. Except at least on the right, they started out trying to make sense, but things just went downhill from there.
I see this as a propagana article, in a way. It's going to scare people. But the P&C also did an article saying the low-carb diet was a good idea, so I'm not started to question to writes this.
It's important for people to realize that they do need to invest in the economy. I had an econ teacher not too long ago talking about how he knows older people that refuse to put their money in banks, and instead just keep cash everywhere because they're afraid. Most people don't realize that the money you have in the bank actually get invested into the market, helping the economy.
Posted by abitskeptical on July 17, 2008 at 8:50 a.m. (Suggest removal)
People with large families, regardless of income, unless you're Bill Gates, always have had to make smart choices & be disciplined about how food is purchased & consumed.
We have roast chicken one night--it is mostly eaten w/ bits of meat left on the remaining carcass & my family sees those bits of chicken 2 nights later in fajitas or soup. Cereal is never bought unless I have a coupon or it is BOGO. There are many ways to cut corners.
Addressing another point brought up by CB:
"Blaming this on one political party or another is short-sided. They've all contributed to this mess but the main culprits are corporations. Business controls our economy, not the government."
I've been trying to bring forth the reality of corporate influence for a while now (much to the irritation of one poster in particular who told me I had an inordinate concern about that :) )
However, I must add that what is alive & well in this country today is corporatism(in reality fascism)--the melding of government & corporations. Corporations through strong lobbying control much of the policy & law, as well as the economy, affecting our lives.
Recognizing this influence is important. A tremendous amount of law & policy are driven purely by monetary interest of the corporations.
People probably won't be surprised to find out how many people in positions of government have vested interests in the very corporations that lobby them. And round & round they go.
Posted by Jane on July 17, 2008 at 8:51 a.m. (Suggest removal)
Here's a thought. Let us drill for oil!!(OK Pelosi and Reid?).
How will this help? Well, first stop this ethanol nonsense. We are burning our food (corn). Farmers are getting huge subsidies from the government to grow corn. So, they aren't growing as much wheat. Well, this causes wheat to go up and also corn...we are burning our corn!! Burn it instead of eating it and you have a shortage of that food product. Shortages cause the price of that product to go up. Sorry, but this is a mess caused by tooooooo much government intervention.
Bush lifted the ban on off shore drilling. What happened? The cost of oil dropped $10 a barrel just on speculation that we might drill for our own oil. Come on Dems...let us drill and let's quit paying farmers(Often large corporate farms)with our tax dollars to burn our food!
Posted by dogwoodroad on July 17, 2008 at 8:52 a.m. (Suggest removal)
sorry RTC - wasn't trying to start an argument - I agree that disability is abused...
I actually used to work in a neuro ICU - you are right - it can be extremeley difficult to get disability, even when warranted. This is hugely frustrating! Hope your brother is ok -
Posted by Tammie on July 17, 2008 at 8:55 a.m. (Suggest removal)
Larz (as usual) always manages to come in and make me crack up! Lol Thanks for that website though. And a lot of us are throwing around ideas that hopefully some of us in here or some other people reading can use!
Lovely, I feel you on the not being able to go out as much as you like. There is a website (I can't remember what is is!) that you can go to and get restaurant recipes. My best friend can make some damn good cheese garlic biscuits...courtesy of Red Lobster. For those of you that love seafood, GO FISHING!!! I LOVE crabs, shrimp, and fish! I'm thankful I live on a lake behind my house, y'all are welcome to drop by! Lol
Posted by jmw9 on July 17, 2008 at 8:57 a.m. (Suggest removal)
In January I lost a second job that I'd had for a while. After that I realized it was time to cut back or i wouldn't make it. One of my bills that I find I can really cut back on is my electric bill since I live alone. Starting with my electric bill I got in March, my combined electric bills since then total $154.59.
I've learned to adapt.
Posted by abitskeptical on July 17, 2008 at 8:59 a.m. (Suggest removal)
Speaking of the state of panic...
Michael Crichton's book State of Fear addresses what Early brought up...good book
Posted by Lovely_One on July 17, 2008 at 9 a.m. (Suggest removal)
Tammie, hubby actually found a website like that (could be the same one) and we are trying out different recipes. We shop at Sam's and trust me buying in bulk with $400 a month budget gets us plenty to work with. And I think I will take you up on that FISHING offer! We luz seafood!
Posted by nikkiP on July 17, 2008 at 9:05 a.m. (Suggest removal)
I love seafood! Especially when I don't have to pay $30 for two clusters of crab legs...
I think that high schools and colleges need to start teaching financial responsibility classes. Something basic, like budgeting and what not. These kids are sometimes completely oblivious to the financial world, and when they start to live on their own they begin to make very bad decisions that get them into debt. And I'm tired of it because the government just bails them out anyway...
I actually know of one girl that said she never returns anything. If it doesn't work for any reason, she just throws it away and buys a new one. And will spend more than $75 on an article of clothing...
Posted by Early on July 17, 2008 at 9:11 a.m. (Suggest removal)
You can eat bark and dig for nuts also!!!!
And, if a love one dies yo always have the option of,,,,well we won't go there!
Posted by Early on July 17, 2008 at 9:11 a.m. (Suggest removal)
Look kids, uncle Milo left you something!!!
Posted by RTC on July 17, 2008 at 9:12 a.m. (Suggest removal)
dogwoodroad, actually my brother is okay physically, but mentally he will never be the same, because his aneurysm was located deep in his frontal lobe, and it was huge. It was a berry aneurysm that took 5 metal clamps to close it off. It had started to leak, and if it had completely ruptured it would have been instant death.
No offense was taken, I assure you. Thanks for asking about my bro, he breaks my heart.
abitskeptical, have you been following me while I shop? :)
My husband actually brags to other men about how well I can stretch a dollar. They all want me to teach their wives how to shop. People just need to use common sense, and ask themselves if they really need to buy something, or do they just want it. I have found that the buy one-get one free deals are not always deals. They often jack up the regular price in hopes of fooling people into believing that they are getting a freebie. You have to know your prices, and look at all of the grocery ads, and decide who has the best deals. I used to shop the specials at all of the stores, but now I limit myself, so I don't waste gas driving around.
Posted by shoelaces on July 17, 2008 at 9:13 a.m. (Suggest removal)
I know it's bad when I have to buy the cheap wine...
I am not in a situation where my family is hurting for anything - not yet anyway. But even I have been more aware of what I purchase at the grocery store. I am buying more store brand items than I would normally. That way I don't feel much pain when I splurge on indulgences like gas for the boat or a fun day with my kids.
Posted by Jane on July 17, 2008 at 9:14 a.m. (Suggest removal)
ONe of the reasons corporations have lobbyists is because of too much government intervention. I read something about a year ago that said Wal-Mart did not have any lobbyists in Washington until Congress started "using Wal-Mart like a punching bag". something to think about.
Posted by abitskeptical on July 17, 2008 at 9:15 a.m. (Suggest removal)
The lady in the article said she gave up her dryer this summer for a clothes line.
I haven't used my dryer much at all for the last 10 years.
I use it when we have strings of wet & damp days, but usually I hang the laundry out in the fresh air....saves on electric bill, dryer replacement(ours is almost 20 yrs old) & everything smells better.
I've never understood what it is that causes that distinct dried in the fresh air smell...but I love it....takes me back to my childhood.
Posted by nikkiP on July 17, 2008 at 9:18 a.m. (Suggest removal)
It does, and companies are trying to adapt. I think walmart is making a new milkjug to save on the price of shipping. Small, but still something.
Ethanol is actually incredibly inefficient. Bear in mind, this comes from an engineering standpoint and not a "save the planet" thing. But it gets worse mileage and I hear is actually dirtier than gasoline. Not to mention, it's taking food as already pointed out. Also, cocaine lords are now forcing workers to begin producing corn because it's more lucrative. corn and coke, who would have thought.
There are better alternatives to corn, like soy. And who eats soy anyway.
That's just more proof that California hates America. or something along those lines. Liberals have convinced people that when you drill for oil, you'll destroy the ocean! Flipper will drown in oil! etcetc. It actually only affects what is the equivalent of a few city blocks, two or three. but as you pointed out, they've made a career opposing drilling regardless of how it would help the american and californian economy.
Posted by nikkiP on July 17, 2008 at 9:21 a.m. (Suggest removal)
abitskeptical- don't birds poop on the clothes? I'm not even trying to make a joke, I had someone tell me that it happened to them alot. Or other little creatures would get to their laundry.
Posted by abitskeptical on July 17, 2008 at 9:28 a.m. (Suggest removal)
Early, there are many edibles right in people's gardens...for example, in addition to bark, pansies & dandies (dandelions) are edible...
Speaking of gardens, I think CB must have a pot of gold buried in his...he keeps saying that it just isn't that bad & that he hasn't felt the effects of soaring gas prices, etc.
Do you in fact have a pot or 2 of gold buried in your garden CB?
Posted by Jane on July 17, 2008 at 9:29 a.m. (Suggest removal)
nikkip you are right, ethanol is incredibly inefficient. It can't be sent through pipelines because of humidity buildup (don't quite understand that, but that is what I have read). Instead it has to be shipped by truck using regular fuel! The article also said that we would need to cut down at least 93 million acres of trees to keep up with the demand. Burning food for fuel is a bad idea all the way around. DRiill! Drill! Drill! Oil prices will never be as cheap as they were 20 to 30 years ago, but it will bring prices down and our national security depends on it.
We buy alot of our oil from Russia, Saudi Arabia, and Venezuela (I believe Canada is our biggest supplier...I could be wrong). Anyway, the first three views us as their enemy...and we know Saudi Arabia is using some of that money to fund terrorism.
Posted by shoelaces on July 17, 2008 at 9:31 a.m. (Suggest removal)
abitskeptical...good point about how it's always been tough to take care of a large family. My husband grew up Catholic and he can tell stories of when meals were stretched to the n'th degree.
abitskeptical...I would line dry a few things but to me that doesn't leave the clothes smelling that fresh..??
I grew up spoiled with two working parents. Not rich but not poor. I like being able to indulge when I want to. And I don't feel guilty for it. My husband and I work hard for out money and if we want to have fun with it then that is OK. I am not really sorry some have found (or put) themselves in a situation where they are struggling.
And just get the drilling underway. Alternatives are quite expensive and not widely available to everyone. Drilling will take a few years and so will cheaper alternatives. Work on both and quit the debating.
Posted by Larz13 on July 17, 2008 at 9:32 a.m. (Suggest removal)
I can walk to Colonial Lake and I see folks fishing there at times but I am not sure that I want to eat what is caught in there.
Tammie....sorry for the spilt lemonade (again).
Posted by abitskeptical on July 17, 2008 at 9:33 a.m. (Suggest removal)
Well, nikkip, I hang my clothes on a line(retractable) on my screened back porch, so I avoid any of the down side like bird poop etc. I do tell my son to let me know when he gets ready to mow the back yard so I can get the clothes off before they get covered in the fine debris from the mowing.
Posted by halfsheli on July 17, 2008 at 9:33 a.m. (Suggest removal)
As someone who is not very well read on the subject...
What about sugar cne ethanol. South American countries make this product work very well. It takes less energy to make this than corn ethanol and produces more energy per unit.
I don't really care about the drilling issue. There are staggering pros and cons to doing this. Ultimately, I think that it's a non-factor. I do believe that we still need to seek alterantive energy sources.
Also, with all of the corn and money going in to corn ethanol, it might be more lucrative to actualyy use the resource. Only like 10% of cars are able to run on E-85, and only 1% of service stations even provide the stuff. Why is that?
Posted by Neponset on July 17, 2008 at 9:34 a.m. (Suggest removal)
nik
I also have a green clothes drier and use it often - have not had a problem with the birds.
Posted by DaisyMae on July 17, 2008 at 9:34 a.m. (Suggest removal)
Tammie: admirable that you are helping your friend. Everyone should have a friend like you.
I am a single mother who, like most people, lives from paycheck to paycheck and am looking to find a part time job to actually make ends meet...comfortably. I do find it difficult to hear how people are having a hard time making ends meet with $500+ a month in food stamps when I "make too much" to qualify for assistance and after rent and bills and about $50 a paycheck to make it on. I love that I am able to take care of my daughter on my own without help, but I don't want to hear complaints either.
Posted by Jane on July 17, 2008 at 9:40 a.m. (Suggest removal)
I do believe drilling is an issue. It is estimated that we have between 1 to 2 TRILLION barrels of shale oil (dems voted against extracting it last month in Congress). If it is 1 Trillion... that is enough oil to last us about 150 years...if it is 2 Trillion that is enough to last us 300 years. That is not counting all the offshore oil and ANWAR.
By the way...China is drilling with Cuba 45 miles off the coast of Florida now!! That should be our oil...not China's!!
Every gallon of food we burn is less food not just for us, but for people in other countries as well.
Posted by halfsheli on July 17, 2008 at 9:42 a.m. (Suggest removal)
I do line dry my clothes. Don't find that bird poop is serious problem. BUT, I don't leave them out for three or fours days. When they are dry, I take them in. My husband and I also ride our bikes alot. We live in a neighborhood that allows us to ride bikes to visit friends, get dinner, go to the pub, play disc golf, etc. Many people will get in their cars to drive half a mile to get a few items from the local store. Ride your bike. Walk. Get some excercise and fresh air, and save money and fuel!
Posted by nikkiP on July 17, 2008 at 9:44 a.m. (Suggest removal)
I'm going to have to look into this line dry thing at home. Except for the unmentionables, those don't go up in public...
halfsheli- Sugarcane based ethanol is a much better alternative. However, corn ethanol needs to be done away with and never spoken of again. It was good in theory and helped to open the door, but all around not that great. That's why few people provide it. I think most people realize the inefficiency in corn ethanol.
jane- if I new more of the content and consistency of ethanol, I could tell you more. But yeah, with any kind of piping great care is taken to avoid condensation within the pipe and whatever it's moving. water droplets can actually be very damaging to the pipes. Something regarding pressure, temperature, I forget. Not sure if cavitation is a problem there, but who knows.
Alternative energy needs to be explored, but people need to realize that things like solar and wind are nice yet ultimately will not take care of the energy needs of America. People need to take steps in their own lives with that one.
Tripsa- you've jinxed us....
Posted by nikkiP on July 17, 2008 at 9:48 a.m. (Suggest removal)
Wish I could ride a bike to work, but it's a 30 minute drive. That might take awhile. But a bike to a pub or bar sounds good. Can't really get ticketed for DUI with that one.
Oh, and we get less than 10% of oil from the middle east. The vast majority of it comes from Canada.
Posted by Test2007 on July 17, 2008 at 9:51 a.m. (Suggest removal)
I agree with coldbeer, blaming it on a particular party is just ridiculous. I think it makes people feel better just to blame it on anyone.
Sidenote - Tripsa, stop sending me emails and get a life.
Posted by halfsheli on July 17, 2008 at 9:52 a.m. (Suggest removal)
niki -- Why do you think that the powers that be do not tap into that sugarcane ethanol thing?
I grew up in south Louisiana and sugar cane fields used to be rampant there. They could be again if the demand was there. This could actually revive a booming industry that would bring money to some very poor communities in south Louisiana and Mississippi among other places.
Posted by Early on July 17, 2008 at 9:52 a.m. (Suggest removal)
Come on guys, I need a hand with the plane banner story!!!
Posted by halfsheli on July 17, 2008 at 9:55 a.m. (Suggest removal)
Also, the trick with hanging unmentionables is to hide them on the "middle" or "center" lines. Put towels and sheets on the "outside" lines to sandwich them in and hide them from prying eyes!!
Posted by nikkiP on July 17, 2008 at 9:56 a.m. (Suggest removal)
I'd like to know why they haven't explored the other sources for ethanol. They might be doing research, but I haven't read anything on that. Sugarcane is also available in texas, but I'm not sure if it's to the same extent as what is in Louisiana.
Even comparatively, sugarcane isn't the 'best' option. It's much higher up in the scale than corn, but I remember my diesel class having a lecture on alternative fuel and the professor saying that soy was one of the best options we have based on how much is required and it's overall efficiency.
I sometimes wonder if many large gas companies try and keep the alternative fuel front quiet until they can find a way to benefit from it.
Posted by Tammie on July 17, 2008 at 9:56 a.m. (Suggest removal)
Shoelaces...Verdi is a good store bought wine..and cheap!! Once I get the ok from my doc, while daddy has our daughter, I am going to drink some Verdi. Hell, one glass doesnt do it for me. Lol I love it.
Early, you are awful. Lol
Nikki, I love the king crab legs also, with some butter and garlic powder and a splash of Frank's Red Hot...yummy!! But hell, I dont have $30 for that!
Posted by nochasgirl on July 17, 2008 at 9:57 a.m. (Suggest removal)
Tammie - I'm curious about Wal-mart fruit now. I bought bananas there on Friday night, and on Sunday morning they were brown. I thought it was odd.
Posted by lucy_fan on July 17, 2008 at 10:01 a.m. (Suggest removal)
The economy is tight right now. We all know that. Everyone needs to find ways to tighten up and make the best of it. I know we don't eat out much anymore, maybe once a month, if that, we don't rent movies, we don't go out for a nice drive, we don't buy junk food, and we really don't miss much.
Posted by justmyopinion7 on July 17, 2008 at 10:10 a.m. (Suggest removal)
Hemp Powered Car Debuts in Washington DC
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S9Am3yUDt......
Posted by shoelaces on July 17, 2008 at 10:14 a.m. (Suggest removal)
I have a great money making sche...plan...we get some old car titles and....
Posted by nikkiP on July 17, 2008 at 10:18 a.m. (Suggest removal)
you can actually run a car on Everclear. I wouldn't recommend it because your engine will explode, but it'll work for a little while.
See, use soy. Way more efficient than corn and no one eats soy. Except hippie liberals.
Wait, you're using CNN as a news source? And they have something AGAINST what the left believes? the room is spinning...
Posted by Tammie on July 17, 2008 at 10:22 a.m. (Suggest removal)
Nochas, I really wonder about their produce. I've had that happen with their 'naners too. I get my produce from the fruit and veggie stands or somewhere like Food Lion. I dont want to feel like I am wasting money again.
Posted by MissPriss on July 17, 2008 at 10:24 a.m. (Suggest removal)
lol @ Early and the cheap hookers. At least the cost of beer hasn't gone up.
Shoelaces....great idea. I'm in!! :)
Posted by justmyopinion7 on July 17, 2008 at 10:26 a.m. (Suggest removal)
Gas companies can charge whatever they want. They raise prices to instill panic, and get more public land leases from the government. Raising the ban on offshore drilling puts billions and billions in their pockets.
There are plenty alternative sources of power. There is plenty of new technology, but the power companies keep buying them out. They bought out the technology for the new battery that would have made the electric car affordable for everyone.
I think we should use already existing technology, such as BioDiesel to before we threaten our coasts. We just have too many hurricanes here to make drilling work.
Posted by nikkiP on July 17, 2008 at 10:30 a.m. (Suggest removal)
Not in the pacific! Drill there. And those rigs can withstand a hurrican, they're very securely built because of things like that. So drill here too.
And power companies aren't buying out alternative power to keep it secret and away from the coal-dependent public. Power companies are working to expand the alternative energy foundation because it will actually help them out a great deal in the long run.
Posted by Jane on July 17, 2008 at 10:32 a.m. (Suggest removal)
Good link Gadsen. Funny how one of Obama's campaign offices had that murdering thug Che on their wall..and Che looked down on blacks. How ironic. Also ironic that during the protests a couple of years ago of all the illegals some were wearing Che t-shirts. I read that Che referred to Mexicans as illiterate indians. Very ironic. I've also read that Che executed between 800 to 1500 people many were boys. Sickening. What a lot of people don't know too is that before Che and Castro started that "revolution" in Cuba, Cuba was a very rich and successful country. People used to immigrate TO Cuba not flee on any thing that floated.
Posted by Jane on July 17, 2008 at 10:40 a.m. (Suggest removal)
I do have a question for folks who are against offshore drilling because of the chance there might be a spill...why do we expect other countries to take that risk with their countrys' environments? I believe it has gotten safer to drill with less chance of spills hasn't it? I do know alot of sealife starts to grow on the oil rigs. They have even sunk some oil rigs that were no longer producing oil. Why? Because it attracts a lot of marine life. It is like a coral reef. Anyway, we can't keep expecting other countries to drill for us. As I said earlier....CHINA is DRILLING 45 MILES OFF the COAST of FLORIDA RIGHT NOW! :-(
Posted by ColdBeer on July 17, 2008 at 10:40 a.m. (Suggest removal)
Quality time with my family is still free :)
Well... sort of.. my 19 year old doesn't believe you can have fun unless you are out somewhere spending money...
Posted by ColdBeer on July 17, 2008 at 10:41 a.m. (Suggest removal)
Ms. Edwards... I hear that hippo meat is fairly cheap right now...
Posted by MissPriss on July 17, 2008 at 10:42 a.m. (Suggest removal)
lol @ funkyjazz82!
Posted by nikkiP on July 17, 2008 at 10:44 a.m. (Suggest removal)
I wasn't sure who Che was so I wikipedia-ed it. They make him sound like a hero, even with his execution. No mention of what he did or the racist things he believed.
He was in the Times 100 most influential, and they act like he was a savior.
Glad condoms didn't go up, since hookers are still cheap.
Posted by justmyopinion7 on July 17, 2008 at 10:47 a.m. (Suggest removal)
Hemp Powered Car Debuts in Washington DC
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S9Am3yUDt......
BIODIESEL!
Posted by Tammie on July 17, 2008 at 10:47 a.m. (Suggest removal)
Lol @ CB, you and Early and terrible...
Shoelaces..count me in too...I think...
Posted by halfsheli on July 17, 2008 at 11:08 a.m. (Suggest removal)
Incidentally, Che is not the hero of ALL liberals. That's just silly. That's like saying that ALL conservatives worship and hang on every word uttered by Jerry Falwell. Overgeneralizations do not strengthen arguments.
Posted by halfsheli on July 17, 2008 at 11:11 a.m. (Suggest removal)
Having liberal beliefs does NOT make one radical. Does believing in the Christian God make any one of you radical Christians. Does believing in Santa Claus make a child a radical delusional perpetuator of the commercialism and hijacking of a sacred religious holiday?
Posted by Newt on July 17, 2008 at 11:11 a.m. (Suggest removal)
http://www.democracynow.org/2008/7/16/am...
What’s micropower?
AMORY LOVINS: Again, it’s renewables, other than big hydro, plus co-generating electricity and heat together, usually in industry.
In 2006, micropower, for the first time, produced more electricity worldwide than nuclear did. A sixth of the world’s electricity is now micropower, a third of the new electricity. In a dozen industrial countries, micropower makes anywhere from a sixth to over half of all the electricity elsewhere. This is not a fringe activity anymore.
China, which has the world’s most ambitious nuclear program, by the end of 2006 had seven times that much capacity in distributed renewables, and they were growing it seven times faster. Take a look at 2007, in which the US or Spain or China added more wind capacity than the world added nuclear capacity. The US added more wind capacity last year than we’ve added coal capacity in the past five years put together.
We could learn a lot as a nation if we stopped listening to ONLY D*** Cheneys oil friends and started listening to truly Knowledgable people!!!!!!!
Posted by Thomas1776 on July 17, 2008 at 11:16 a.m. (Suggest removal)
Putting an incumbent like Sen Lindsey Graham back in office is very foolish. He is not worth all those "self voted" pay raises Congress and the US Senate easily gives itself.
Hey Graham? Have you hugged an illegal mexican today?!
Posted by Thomas1776 on July 17, 2008 at 11:17 a.m. (Suggest removal)
PROFITS. What are the profit reports from the food industry?
Posted by Jane on July 17, 2008 at 11:20 a.m. (Suggest removal)
Ummm....we haven't been able to build nuclear power plants here because of the dems in congress. It was Teddy Kennedy who boo hooed them building windmills out in Nantucket Sound (they would have been barely visible from shore). Why? Because that was where he weny yachting! Those windmills would have given the Cape 75% or their power!
Posted by willie08 on July 17, 2008 at noon (Suggest removal)
Newt, good source democracynow.org
Halfsheli, good point
Another good website is deoxy.org
Great stuff
Posted by Jane on July 17, 2008 at 12:07 p.m. (Suggest removal)
Excellent points tripsa.
The 68 million acres of "oil-rich" land that they claim, well, I am not so sure it is "oil-rich" like some of the politicians are saying.
The US government is the leaseholder and ROYALTY recipient of most oil production and receives 25% of the gross oil sales BEFORE the oil companies pay for electricity to lift the oil, propane to keep the oil-water separators from freezing in the witners. Oil companies pay a pumper to visit each well everyday plus the equipment failures. That is all paid for out of the 75%of oil companies gross sales. Get that? The federal gov't takes 25% and doesn't do a thing!! That adds 25% cost up front on each gallon of gas you pay for!
Our biggest oil company Exxon is only the 14th largest in the world. The really big oil companies are owned by foreign governments or gov't sponsored monopolies.
94% of the world's oil supply is locked up by foreign gov'ts, most of which are hostile to the US.
Posted by halfsheli on July 17, 2008 at 12:12 p.m. (Suggest removal)
Imagine the size of the SUVs that we could drive if we clould get our grubby hands on even some of that 94% locked up by hostile governments. My mouth is watering just at the thought. I could drive a hummer that tows an Rv that uses a gas-powered generator while pouring gallons of oil on the heads of baby seals... Ha!
Posted by willie08 on July 17, 2008 at 12:27 p.m. (Suggest removal)
halfsheli, I wouldn't ever have to walk anywhere again.
Posted by halfsheli on July 17, 2008 at 12:32 p.m. (Suggest removal)
walk? I would buy gas-powered shoes!
Posted by abitskeptical on July 17, 2008 at 12:42 p.m. (Suggest removal)
On the subject of rising costs of gas & food, I'll open another can of worms.
How many, who are using assistance &/or complaining about making ends meet, regularly spend money on all sorts of frivolous & unnecessary things?
As just one example:
I cannot count the times I've seen someone pull out food stamps with those obviously recently "done" fake fingernails.
Look down at their feet & you'll see some "fancy" do-dad pattern & nail polish on their toenails as well. I have no idea of the exact amount charged for getting all of that done, but it ain't cheap. Additionally, these people must not do very much. How can anyone get anything done with 2 in. fingernails?
It is an amazing thing to realize what some people consider a NECESSARY monthly expense.
I know that all who are struggling with the rising costs are not guilty of this. Lots of folks have cut back in various areas. I just am relating something I've observed for a long time.
I never have gotten the wild finger & toenail thing anyway, but I especially do not get it when folks are struggling &/or accepting assistance in getting groceries for their family.
Posted by Jane on July 17, 2008 at 1 p.m. (Suggest removal)
halfshelli and willie you miss the point. The point isn't to "get our hands on their oil". The point is, 94% of the worlds oil is owned by foreign governments many who are hostile to us. Don't you see what that means? We are at their mercy and we are funding terrorism with our money used to buy their oil.
Wouldn't it end those "war for oil" as folks on left say if we had enough of our own? What do you think?
Thanks tripsa. I had a feeling those alternative ways to run cars actually produced more pollution than oil.
Posted by Tammie on July 17, 2008 at 1:11 p.m. (Suggest removal)
I went to Piggly Wiggly for my aunt and a gallon of milk is $6!!! What kind of cow did this milk come from, a Christian Dior cow?
Posted by trod1 on July 17, 2008 at 1:17 p.m. (Suggest removal)
Whata buncha crap.i feed a family of 5 similar ages 5 ,9,17 for around 550 bucks or so a month easily.some needs to learn how to budget and plan meals.as for the presidential talk its a shame these two jokers running are the best we as a nation can come up with.
Posted by nikkiP on July 17, 2008 at 1:18 p.m. (Suggest removal)
People who sell their cars for a brand new hybrid are also creating waste with the old car.
We buy less than 10% of our oil from the middle east! Am I the only one hearing this? I think there are lists available of which gas companies get oil from where.
but regardless of the oil available, it's still important to find an alternative. a VIABLE alternative. Not solar, that's just a pipe dream.
Posted by trod1 on July 17, 2008 at 1:19 p.m. (Suggest removal)
6 bucks even publix or teeters milk is cheaper than that!
Posted by nikkiP on July 17, 2008 at 1:22 p.m. (Suggest removal)
so does that mean we only use 6% of the oil available? does that mean we use that much less gas than other countries?
Hey when do we get to use the federal reserves? and why are they taking so much lately? it's for ted kennedy's boat, isn't it? He wont' be driving that anytime soon, let's start freeing up those barrels.
Posted by Tammie on July 17, 2008 at 1:23 p.m. (Suggest removal)
Trod, that's why I have to wonder where the hell that cow came from!!! $6 is expensive!!
Posted by Newt on July 17, 2008 at 1:24 p.m. (Suggest removal)
Nuclear cannot actually deliver the climate or the security benefits claimed for it. It’s unrelated to oil. And it’s grossly uneconomic, which means the nuclear revival that we often hear about is not actually happening. It’s a very carefully fabricated illusion. And the reason it isn’t happening is there are no buyers. That is, Wall Street is not putting a penny of private capital into the industry, despite 100-plus percent subsidies.
Why?
It’s uneconomic. It costs, for example, about three times as much as wind power, which is booming.
Let me give you some numbers about what’s happening in the marketplace, because that’s reality, as far as I’m concerned. I really take markets seriously. 2006, the last full year of data we have, nuclear worldwide added a little bit of capacity, more than all of it from upgrading old plants, because the new ones they built were smaller than the retirements of old plants. So they added 1.4 billion watts. Sounds like a lot. Well, it’s about one big plant’s worth worldwide. That was less than photovoltaics, solar cells added in capacity. It was a tenth what wind power added. It was a thirtieth to a fortieth of what micropower added.
Jim Woolsey, a not-hostile-to-oil, per se, Oklahoman, former—
former CIA director, has actually testified against Arctic Refuge drilling on national security grounds. There’s a very simple reason. There’s only one way to get the oil south: it’s through the Trans-Alaska Pipeline, which is the most vulnerable part of our energy infrastructure, the biggest terrorist target in our energy infrastructure. It’s what he calls Uncle Sam’s “kick me” sign.
So, think about it. You’ve got an 800-mile pipeline, mostly above ground, mostly accessible by road or by floatplane. And if the flow through it is interrupted in the winter for about a week, 900—well, nine million barrels of hot oil congeals into the world’s largest Chapstick, a big candle. Then you can’t pump it anymore. Could this happen? Well, actually, yes, if certain points on the pipeline, pumping stations and so on, were attacked—
trippin - OK, OK...please go look at what this man is saying! It makes economin sense! Nevermind that I am a left wing nut....just look at the numbers and it makes sense. I'll be sorry for the Cheney thing it you will just go look see....maybe, just maybe there are other options.....Kisses trippin
Posted by trod1 on July 17, 2008 at 1:25 p.m. (Suggest removal)
buying a used civic or such is a better alternative to buying a new hybrid financially.10 k for the honda or what have you vs 23 for the hybrid. im not going to use 13k in gas in 5 years .
Posted by Osgood30 on July 17, 2008 at 1:26 p.m. (Suggest removal)
I think its very short-sighted and ignorant to blame just one group or just one person. Its not just Bush's fault, or just the democrats, big business, oil companies, mortgage lenders, etc. It EVERYONE'S FAULT.
Its your fault for living above your means and not reading your mortgage contract. Its the governments fault for subsidizing fossil fuel refining (thus keeping fuel costs artificially low). Its Bush's fault for over extending our military and building a horrific deficit.
Essentially, I feel, we are seeing a much needed correction due to decades and decades of fiscal irresponsibility in this country (by all of us).
We have not seen the end of this. Whoever is elected this fall had better make some tough economic decisions. We can not have our cake, and eat it too.
Americans have a weird sense of entitlement. We deserve cheap fuel, 2 cars, low taxes, health insurance, public schools, etc. Non of which are mentioned the Constitution. But I digress. Maybe this situation will help us re-evaluate our priorities.
The good news - you must go through bad times to appreciate the good.
Posted by trod1 on July 17, 2008 at 1:28 p.m. (Suggest removal)
I do a lot of my bulk shopping at wally world.and some meat.but i will go to publix or wherever for better meat and things.some of the walmart meat scares me to eat it.
Posted by Newt on July 17, 2008 at 1:35 p.m. (Suggest removal)
http://www.democracynow.org/2008/7/16/am...
This will take you to the transcript of last night's broadcast. He doesn't lean left or right, he is just a science guy.
Posted by nikkiP on July 17, 2008 at 1:35 p.m. (Suggest removal)
newt.... seriously? You're comparing wind to nuclear? omg.
wind power doesn't have the capacity. The largest wind field on earth is a mere 180MW, most small coal plants trump that with no problem. Wind power is a great SUPPLEMENT but cannot provide what is necessary due to today's growth.
Nuclear power, small units, generate over 200MW. This is all based on per/hour as well. They're incredibly safe, incredibly clean, and very very efficient. The only problem facing nuclear plants (besides idiots...) is the cost of materials right now, which is affecting everything. There's a huge price tag and they take awhile to get up, but they are the best alternative to gas and coal available.
Why is wind "booming?" Because everyone and their mother (neither of which know anything about power generation) things it's the savior of today. If the largest wind turbine can only generate 5MW an hour, how many do you need to generate say... 600MWs? And where are you going to put those? Those are strictly for the water, the ones on land do even less. They're great to put up in your own yard to provide power for your home, but they cannot sustain the power for a country.
No one can build nuclear because greenpeace and the aforementioned idiots and politicians are all freaking out and screaming "chernobyl."
Posted by Newt on July 17, 2008 at 1:47 p.m. (Suggest removal)
Nikki the freaky - I am not saying anything. I provided a link to a broadcast and copied part of the transcript. This is a science guy. He actually works with big oil companies. Because I do not know enough about how we get our power or how we use it, I have decided to educate myself....instead of spewing misinformation out of the side of my head.
You would do well to educate yourself instead of quoting crap from Fox News (no jab at trippin meant). You know science guys that are far more educated than you or I.
What are your credentials?
Posted by nikkiP on July 17, 2008 at 1:47 p.m. (Suggest removal)
everytime someone becomes liberal, a puppy dies. True story.
I shouldn't say that, I know plenty of intelligent liberals. I like to call them 'moderates.' It's the extremist liberals that irk me.
Posted by nikkiP on July 17, 2008 at 1:49 p.m. (Suggest removal)
nuclear engineering classes, three years of working at a power plant. you?
Posted by Newt on July 17, 2008 at 1:50 p.m. (Suggest removal)
trippin - you turn liberal?...How about you move just a bit left and I'll scoot right and we can meet in the middle!
Posted by nikkiP on July 17, 2008 at 1:51 p.m. (Suggest removal)
oh, and a project about researching the feasibility for wind power near myrtle beach and georgetown, that was actually fun.
Posted by Newt on July 17, 2008 at 1:57 p.m. (Suggest removal)
Nikki the freaky - nope, just a concerned citizen trying to understand all this stuff that is way over my "pretty little head". I would suggest you read the transcript though. This was not a liberal nut. Just a numbers guy that has worked in the energy field for years.
There are way too many options for one to be the ONLY solution! Why not open our eye and minds to all the possiblities?
Posted by Newt on July 17, 2008 at 2:03 p.m. (Suggest removal)
Gadsden - I always knew you were a well informed guy!
But come on....Bush is bad! We can all see it, and one day soon his legacy is going to prove it!
It is very strange that an oil guy becomes president and oil surges from $20.00 something a barrel to $140.00 in 6 years. How does that happen?
Refusing to allow past administration officials to testify before congress??? HHMMMMM, Me thinks he has something to hide!
Posted by Tammie on July 17, 2008 at 2:04 p.m. (Suggest removal)
Lol @ Tripsa
Gadsden, I couldnt remember if it was the Coburg brand or Piggly Wiggly but hell, it wasn't my dime. I dont really drink milk like that (although I should but I think ice cream counts...). I'm scared to get milk from Wal-Mart for the same reason I am scared to buy fruit from there, I'm afraid it'll go bad quick.
Posted by nikkiP on July 17, 2008 at 2:07 p.m. (Suggest removal)
newt, just newt, no need to resort to name calling unless we're three. Or that's all you can do.
Energy needs to move away from coal and natural gas. I said several times that wind, solar if it can be done efficiently, is a great supplement.
There is also hydro power, tidal power, and many many others. There are companies working to develop an amazing amount of underwater turbines that work in various capacities. Currently, there are projects (and some already on the grid) to use landfull gas, as well as the methane from farm animal waste.
Some of them have great potential, others probably won't pan out.
I know the possibilities. What do you think students like me are going to do for the rest of their lives as a career?
Nuclear is the best and most efficient we have. I was skeptical until talking to professors and a friend that is a nuclear engineer in georgia.
Once again: best, not only. There are supplements, just as we have now.
Posted by walleyedwoman1215 on July 17, 2008 at 2:10 p.m. (Suggest removal)
I spend $160 monthly for two adults and we eat well! Try container gardening for fresh tomatoes, squash, eggplant, pole beans and zucchini. At Aldi's no-frills mart in Columbia (it's a lot of gas, but if you're going to Cola anyway...), buy a 24-ounce jar of marinara sauce for $2, same size salsa for $1.85, whole wheat pasta (feeds 4) for $1.40, 3 dozen large eggs for $3.50 and canned potatoes, green beans and soups for about 65 cents per can. All are delicious.
Hit Bi-lo or Wal-Mart after 7 p.m. and get a fat rotisserie chicken (cooked that morning) for $3. Buy seasonings/ herbs at "Everything's a Dollar", along with books, toys, toothpaste, soap, moisturizer, greeting cards, deodorant, makeup, scented body spray, detergent, air freshener, shredded cheese and canned nuts.
I buy 80 percent of my clothes, including shoes, belts and purses, at thrift shops.
For cleaning tubs, toilets, countertops and windows, mix equal parts baking soda and white vinegar; apply, then dry, with old newspapers for a streak-free gleam.
Need entertainment? Get books and DVDs from the library, or better yet, play cards or Trivial Pursuit @ the dining room table.
I love to save a dollar!!!
Posted by Newt on July 17, 2008 at 2:14 p.m. (Suggest removal)
I like to refer to people by the picture their posts paint in my head and you seem freaky to me!
I thought it telling that the Lovins gentleman had to say about nuclear.....
"What nuclear would do is displace coal, our most abundant domestic fuel. And this sounds good for climate, but actually, expanding nuclear makes climate change worse, for a very simple reason. Nuclear is incredibly expensive. The costs have just stood up on end lately. Wall Street Journal recently reported that they’re about two to four times the cost that the industry was talking about just a year ago. And the result of that is that if you buy more nuclear plants, you’re going to get about two to ten times less climate solution per dollar, and you’ll get it about twenty to forty times slower, than if you buy instead the cheaper, faster stuff that is walloping nuclear and coal and gas, all kinds of central plans, in the marketplace. And those competitors are efficient use of electricity and what’s called micropower, which is both renewables, except big hydro, and making electricity and heat together, in fact, recent buildings, which takes about half of the money, fuel and carbon of making them separately, as we normally do."
Like I said, I am simply trying to educate myself and become an informed citizen. I am, in no way, qualified to say what is best....but I do think it will have to be everything at our disposal. Economics and plan ole math is what I'm looking for. Not partisan science (not saying that is what you're offering).
Posted by lucy_fan on July 17, 2008 at 2:22 p.m. (Suggest removal)
tripsa- I think you got a crush out there, hun :)
Posted by Newt on July 17, 2008 at 2:23 p.m. (Suggest removal)
Gadsden - I watched a show on Greenland's glaciers last night and what they are saying about the speed of the melting was alarming. I know that our wonderful mother earth has cooling periods and heating periods. It is a big circle of existence; however the rate at which these changes are occurring is the alarming.
I also realized that without the last ice age humans would not have evolved into the people we are today. That last climate changed forced us to survive and adapt. This proves that Mother Nature knows what she is doing, but our influences are throwing monkey wrenches into the natural process. (do you like that reference to evolution and the monkey wrench;)
Posted by Newt on July 17, 2008 at 2:24 p.m. (Suggest removal)
I love me some trippin:)
Posted by nikkiP on July 17, 2008 at 2:26 p.m. (Suggest removal)
I don't get my information from fox news. Fox news has lately become a place to get celebrity gossip.
And don't judge, it's rude. Especially on something like this, a web forum. Who does things like that?
you're reading from whatever you read, I learn from classes, studies, books, and a working knowledge of the efficiency of these things. And once again, I said use the alternatives.
Ideally, I think people need to be more energy conscious and putting a curb to the rapidly rising growth rate of energy consumption starts with the individual and the home.
I also said that the biggest problem facing nuclear (besides greenpeace) is it's hefty pricetag.
Try reading something besides that one article by one scientist. At work we have an archive of media releases from various websites, newpapers, etc. It's not politically driven, just done by basic search criteria, and it's very informative.
And once again, don't judge. it's rude.
Posted by lucy_fan on July 17, 2008 at 2:28 p.m. (Suggest removal)
Walmart is cheaper on most of their prices. Gadsden- did you have a bad experience with the milk from there? I never have. Of course, I dont' use much, but hubby and daughter have never said anthing.
Tammie- you do have a point about the produce. It's awful. I shop at the one in Summerville, and never by fresh produce from there. As far as their meats, we rarely eat anything besides chicken or fish, so I buy the bags of boneless chicken breasts from there, and thats about it for meat.
Posted by greyrider on July 17, 2008 at 2:31 p.m. (Suggest removal)
How does Bush profit from oil skyrocketting if we're buying so much of it overseas because we refuse to drill here?
Granted "Bush and his cronies" would benefit if we drill our own oil, but I'd much rather see "Bush and his cronies" get rich than Bin Laden and his cronies.
Middle East oil? American oil? Hmmm, not a hard one for me.
Posted by Newt on July 17, 2008 at 2:32 p.m. (Suggest removal)
Freaky - you obviously haven't read any of my posts in the past....I AM RUDE! RUDE RUDE RUDE....and you are a big baby!
Quite being so sensitive and notice that I am more than less agreeing with you, big baby!
I do not only read one guys article. It was just the one that stuck in the goo between my ears from last night. And it did seem to fit with the topic.
Grow some and maybe you won’t be so pouty! Good grief!!!!!!!
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