Downtown residents vexed by noise, vandalsBy Brian Hicks (Contact)
The Post and Courier
Sunday, July 6, 2008
It is one of the most beautiful neighborhoods in downtown Charleston, a collection of well-maintained homes and businesses that tourists stroll by every day and say, "Wouldn't it be nice to live here?" But residents of the French Quarter say even the nicest neighborhoods have their problems. A petition signed by dozens of folks asks the mayor, city council and police chief for extra police and parking enforcement officers to patrol their streets at night. After 10 p.m., residents say, the French Quarter is a world of noisy bar patrons roaming their streets, defacing their homes, damaging their belongings and their cars and painting graffiti on their walls along the way. In the area bordered roughly by Market and Broad streets between East Bay and King streets, there have been broken windows, peeping toms, attempted break-ins, and one woman reported seeing an attempted rape. The neighborhood has become a parking lot for local bar patrons, many of whom walk the streets after 2 a.m., yelling, cursing, drinking and sometimes fighting. "It's just gotten out of hand," resident Ellen Murray said. "Something has got to be done about it." Ralph Ledford, a member of the homeowners association, said that just last month he had two people on the roof of his home at 27 State Street, trying to peer into his tenants' windows. The noise and trouble have gotten bad enough that it has begun to affect his business, a bed and breakfast. "We get people coming out of the Broad Street bars singing and yelling nearly every night," Ledford said. "We just wanted to see if we could get the mayor and city council to do something." At the Footlight Players Theatre on Queen Street, Production Director Richard Heffner said they've found graffiti painted on the side of their building. He hesitates to call it trouble, but the problem is enough that he's spoken to Mayor Joe Riley, who promised to send the police department's graffiti team. The thing is, the paint is on an unpainted brick wall. "The problem is how you deal with it without hurting the side of the building," Heffner said. In a city that has more than its share of shootings and violent crimes, the petition details a number of problems that might seem minor to some — "flower pots broken and stolen, windows broken, car windows broken, wiper blades broken" — along with "intolerable" noise from people coming out of downtown bars. But there also are the attempted breaking and entering charges, one at the Queen's Gate condominiums last month. And even things that might seem minor can become a major headache when they occur over and over and over. It seems, many residents say, that it never ends. The problems that afflicted the neighborhood years ago abated for a while but have picked up again — roughly in concert with the decision to close local bars at 2 a.m. Now, the party continues in the streets after local pubs close their doors. It all adds up to a nuisance — an expensive one — that residents think could be curbed with a little help. The petitioners have asked the city to stop their neighborhood from becoming a parking lot for local bars — they say people park in resident spaces at night to avoid paying fees in city lots. Petitioners also want to increase police patrols between 10 p.m. and 4 a.m. and to better monitor local bars for underage drinking. They suspect that many of their problems are caused by young college kids who cut through their streets. Ledford said the measures could only help improve the entire city, especially if potential drunken drivers are stopped before they get behind the wheel. City officials have forwarded these concerns to Charleston Police Chief Greg Mullen, who has made the issue of public drinking a priority for the department. Mullen said he is working on the problem. "We've been working with this community before the petition and we're continuing to do so now," Mullen said. "We're working with them to help solve these issues." Ledford said residents have met with a couple of officers and that city officials have given them hope that there will be "positive steps" taken. "Hopefully, this will help," he said. |
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Comments
This article has 38 comment(s)
Posted by Smart_Enough_2_Know_Better on July 6, 2008 at 1:23 a.m. (Suggest removal)
Um, yes, living in the city, esp. near bars, can suck. Duh.
Posted by vicupstate on July 6, 2008 at 7:58 a.m. (Suggest removal)
Residents shouldn't have to tolerate such behavior, bars or not. The neighbors could pay an off-duty officer to make his presence known during the key hours. Maybe that would help. A blue uniform has sobered up many a drunk.
Posted by Paul on July 6, 2008 at 8:44 a.m. (Suggest removal)
Private citizens have a right to defend their personal safety and property.
The Supreme Court just upheld the right to bear arms..
Posted by The_Mouth_of_the_South on July 6, 2008 at 8:45 a.m. (Suggest removal)
For all the drunks and derelicts the like to promote alcohol, this is exactly why we need extreme measures to curb alcohol consumption. Drinking alcohol is evil and people who consume alcohol are a major problem to society. They should put an officer at the exit to every bar with a breathalyzer and test every patron as they try to leave, then arrest anybody who reads over .08 BAC for public intoxication. Give them a $500 fine and they will think twice about this type of behavior.
Posted by buclark on July 6, 2008 at 8:57 a.m. (Suggest removal)
If you want peace and quiet around the clock, you should move into the country and come to town when you want a little night life.
Posted by iopturbo on July 6, 2008 at 9:37 a.m. (Suggest removal)
Mouth of the south, I drink alcohol and am one of the evil people. I don't condone people disturbing others or damaging private property but you are an idiot. 66% Americans drink, I think you need to move to Iraq or another muslim country if you don't want to be around alcohol. Well I am gonna go get back in bed and have another Mimosa with the flavor of the week, have a good day.
Posted by Reader on July 6, 2008 at 9:38 a.m. (Suggest removal)
They don't want peace and quiet "around the clock." They want a little peace and quiet at 2:00 a.m. I don't think that is too much to ask.
Posted by Cid95 on July 6, 2008 at 10:09 a.m. (Suggest removal)
The residents' request for a fair amount of peace and quiet after 2am is reasonable. Just because you live near some bars doesn't mean you should allow this kind of crap.
It doesn't sound like they expect their neighborhood to be a library. If they do then yeah, they need to move out to the country.
Mouth - drinking alcohol is evil? Even Iraq, Malaysia, Indonesia, Turkey, the United Arab Emirates and many other moslem nations allow alcohol sales, KSA (Kingdom of Saudi Arabia) is the place for you. No heathenly women allowing their hair or skin to be seen either, no dancing - a very god-fearing country.
Posted by ysillyme on July 6, 2008 at 10:34 a.m. (Suggest removal)
mouth of the south---I will alter your suggestion a little. You ned to start drinking alcohol, you sound like a loon, and certifiable at that. Maybe checking your IQ b4 you post a message would eliminate such a hideous posting.
Posted by UrGatorbait on July 6, 2008 at 10:37 a.m. (Suggest removal)
Mouth of the South, Hallelujah praise jesus brother!! Bring back prohibition and condemn the evils of alcohol and women. They are a sin and you'll be sent to burn in fire and brimstone if you partake...please. A cop at every door? Another lover of big gubmint.
Then we have the shoot 'em all mentality because we have the right to defend our property used as an excuse.
That being said those people should be able to expect some quiet at 2 am. Common sense enforcement of current laws instead of more new laws would be refreshing.
Posted by Thomas1776 on July 6, 2008 at 10:38 a.m. (Suggest removal)
Solution to problem = Get rid of Power Freak Riley and Mullins and install new leadership that can manage your tax money the right way. Right now the City is broke from wasteful spending on to many things - like fighting for land on James Island, etc.
Posted by Thomas1776 on July 6, 2008 at 10:40 a.m. (Suggest removal)
Everyone ignore Reader. He is one of the people who was on top of another person's roof - playing with himself.
Posted by megaward on July 6, 2008 at 11 a.m. (Suggest removal)
You live in the tourist mecca of charleston and are crying about noise? give me a fcking break!
Posted by NativeSC on July 6, 2008 at 11:10 a.m. (Suggest removal)
Thomas1776, how is Mullen the problem, he has only been here 18 months. Are you just lumping him in with Riley? The real solution would be to move the College of Charleston out to Ridgeville. Give them there own space where their POS students can tear stuff up, treat each other disrespectfully, and it won't affect anyone but them. The college is a stain downtown, the students suck, they act like they are the only people on earth. They can create a new economy in Dorchester County, it would be a reverse commute for people who work there, and ease some of the congestion on I 26. Think how nice it would be to not have to worry about getting hit by some POS student texting on their cell as they blow through a red light, or not having to slam on the brakes as one of these idiots crosses Calhoun against the light because they are oblivious to everything around them, or what it would be like to sit in a restaurant and be able to eat peacefully without an obnoxious group of "students" making the whole environment intolerable. You move the college out of downtown and the quality of life of all the taxpayer living downtown would go up tremendously. F the college.
Posted by ysillyme on July 6, 2008 at 11:47 a.m. (Suggest removal)
Since I moved here recently from N.C. I have noticed in that area downtown the residents seem a bit elitist. Shocked college kids make noise? Think yer fancy 'hoods should be immune from "Downtown problems"? Cry me a river, can't handle it move somewhere else.
Posted by candygirl on July 6, 2008 at 12:25 p.m. (Suggest removal)
That's the luxury of living in the French Quarters.
Posted by jammer on July 6, 2008 at 12:29 p.m. (Suggest removal)
"yawn" ... you moved into a tourist city and now want to complain, imagine trying to live there when this was a military town!! things were A LOT louder and rowdier then
it's like the idiots that move next to a race track and complain about the noise, TOUGH ... MOVE
and yes, if you move next to bars you can expect bar noise and activities... only a dumba*s would expect different, you don't "deserve" anything... if you want a better quality of life, move to where it exist
just have to shake your head at these people that move in because of their perception of what this place is and then want to change it... go back where you came from
like we all know, downtown is just a ghetto with makeup on... reminds one of that commercial where those dam inspectors just put chewed gum in a crack as they walk by
Posted by Swabby757 on July 6, 2008 at 1:06 p.m. (Suggest removal)
Moving the College off the peninsula would be a terrible idea. You know how many students live in off-campus housing? You know how many students have off-campus jobs? You know how much the city makes on parking with the College?
"
Reverse the commute for people who live there" Yeah because so many C of C faculty and staff live in Dorchester County and not Mt. Pleasant, James Island, John's Island, West Ashley, Folly Beach, Sullivan's Island, etc...
"The college is a stain downtown"
Yeah right. The College has some of the oldest buildings on the peninsula, not to mention, some of the nicest buildings. The campus is beautiful.
You've got some stereotypes that you haven't really looked into man. Get over it.
Posted by drp7773 on July 6, 2008 at 1:25 p.m. (Suggest removal)
I'll bet if King Joe or any councelperson lived in this neighborhood this would not be happening, they would be blocking off the road with wooden saw horses or the National Gaurd or Coast Gaurd would be blocking the road.:)
Posted by UnoCubanito on July 6, 2008 at 1:51 p.m. (Suggest removal)
Where do they live again? DOWNTOWN..I don't care what city you go to in any state..Downtown will always have noise...You choose to live downtown near the spots of attractions DEAL WITH IT
Posted by berthelot on July 6, 2008 at 2:35 p.m. (Suggest removal)
Many of you need to re-read the article. Police already patrol the streets that the bars are located on. The problem comes when people leave those streets and walk through the residential neighborhoods behind those bars breaking things, yelling, fighting, and fornicating in the streets. The only thing the residents are asking for is an increased police presence at night - not a difficult thing to accomplish.
By the way, mouth of the south has the same m.o. every day - make an absurd comment early in the morning and then not follow up to the responses. Go back and look at all of the past comments from mouth of the south, I implore you to find a single one that makes sense.
Posted by burton on July 6, 2008 at 3:10 p.m. (Suggest removal)
Sounds like they need to get a Citizen's Patrol Against Drunks (CPAD). LOL.
Posted by acharlestongirl on July 6, 2008 at 3:19 p.m. (Suggest removal)
Another example of people moving into downtown and trying to change it. You moved into an area within a couple of blocks of the Market and East Bay Street. You didn't expect any noise? Really? Get over it. Or you could always do us all a favor and MOVE back to where you came from. There have been bars in that area since the original settlement. Now that YOU live in the area things should change. Blah, blah, blah.
Posted by Thomas1776 on July 6, 2008 at 3:20 p.m. (Suggest removal)
Solution to help the problem ... let bars stay open beyond 2 a.m. again ... lol.
Posted by NativeSC on July 6, 2008 at 3:36 p.m. (Suggest removal)
Swabby, read this slow so you can understand it.
It is a reverse commute because most CofC employees live in W Ashley, Mt P, Downtown, James Island and it is a reverse commute because they will be going against all the traffic coming into town on 26 East from Summerville, Goose Greek, etc. That is what a reverse commute is. In the afternoon, the reverse commute is going against everyone stacked up on 26 West leaving town.
Many students live in off campus housing and if they moved the college(look, I know it's a ridiculous idea, but it would be nice) then the slum lords that owned those properties would be forced to fix them up if they wanted anyone to live there. There would still be people wanting to live downtown. I don't think the students pay that much for parking, look at how much goes uncollected in parking fines. There again, there are plenty of people that would fill that void.
Also, when I said the college was a stain, I meant the students. I agree the buildings are beautiful, and they wouldn't move them, they would obviously remain. Maybe they could lease them out to companies wanting to locate downtown and attract some white collar industry to the area. The students are the problem, and yes, I know that not all of them are the problem, but ride down Calhoun St during the week and it is a disaster. Go anywhere in the general area of the college and it is more of a hassle than it should be. Talk to anyone that isn't a student that lives downtown near the college and they would agree, the students are a nightmare. This will never happen but it would be great for downtown if it did. The college has gotten too big, it is a big difference from what it was 20 years ago.
Posted by iopturbo on July 6, 2008 at 6:42 p.m. (Suggest removal)
People seeking higher education at one of the oldest Colleges in the US are a stain? Wow what high school did you drop out of?
Posted by lowcountrylover on July 6, 2008 at 6:57 p.m. (Suggest removal)
IT'S THE YANKEES MOVING HERE. THEY WANT TO MOVE IN THEN CHANGE STUFF. JUST GO BACK HOME. DID YA KNOW THERE WERE BARS CLOSE????? JUST GO BACK HOME!
Posted by voyager12 on July 6, 2008 at 7:57 p.m. (Suggest removal)
As a proud cofc alum, I love the college just the way it is. The school is an integral part of the peninsula and is a huge moneymaker for local businesses downtown. And the presence of students and all the free public events available on campus add great diversity to downtown. Native, since you apparently have the ability to judge every student at cofc , why don't you move to the boonies since you are obviously too ignorant to understand what higher education is all about. I think you would be happier in a place that has more pigs than people, you can relate better among your peers there.
Posted by disco on July 6, 2008 at 8:42 p.m. (Suggest removal)
They decided to close the bars at 2 am because of the problems they were having, but instead there are more problems. If you live downtown you have to expect what you are getting. That's why you have suburbs!
Posted by farfallaspeaks on July 6, 2008 at 10:34 p.m. (Suggest removal)
Well what do you expect when you kick all the drunks out of the bars at 2 Am? They're going to take to the streets.
Let the bars stay open later, and they won't be out on the streets at 2 in the morning.
What a bunch of whiners. I live downtown, and I'm woken up by all the construction workers who blast their crappy radio music at 7:30 in the morning and turn on their loud machinery.
I also blame a few of them for stealing some bikes out of my back yard.
What a bunch of whiners. Go move to some gated community if that's what you're expecting. It's downtown. Bars, houses, stores all mixed into one cozy community.
Posted by Andrew on July 6, 2008 at 10:46 p.m. (Suggest removal)
Food must be served with alcohol until closing.
Customers have to order food or leave.
Restaurants with drinks... not simply bars.
Close at 1am.
Posted by farfallaspeaks on July 6, 2008 at 11:03 p.m. (Suggest removal)
NativeSC
I am not a student and I live downtown next door to a house that has made the news for their loud parties. They don't bother me.
I ask them to keep it down, and they usually do. I have more of an issue with all the drunk driving that goes on at 2 in the morning when everyone is kicked out of the bars. They speed through the neighborhoods, and hit parked cars.
I got in a 3 car pile up at 2:06 in the morning after leaving a bar one time.
One guy was drunk and the other was tripping. Good thing I had no money, so I was pretty sober.
Posted by berthelot on July 7, 2008 at 8:01 a.m. (Suggest removal)
Are you people retarded??? No one is trying to close the bars. Everyone knew about the bars before moving in.
The only thing they are asking for is that their property not be vandalized on a regular basis. Can you understand that?
What makes you think that all of these people are yankees, you think no southerner could afford to live there? You are very wrong about that.
I have lived next to the College of Charleston and I have lived in the French Quarter. The French Quarter is much worse, and it has nothing to do with the CofC students - why would they want to hang around near the Market? College students hang around the King & Calhoun area. The problem is TOURISTS, and REDNECKS FROM THE SUBURBS leaving the bars and acting like fools. So for all of you asking the residents of the FQ to "go back to where they came from" maybe you should say the same to the tourists from out of town, and to yourselves from just outside of town.
The thing to take note of is that a community saw a problem, wrote a petition to the local leaders, and now as a result the police are responding accordingly. This is a story of the system working - one of the most positive stories run by the P&C all year.
Posted by ysillyme on July 7, 2008 at 8:58 a.m. (Suggest removal)
berthelot--yankees/tourists what's the diff? They come here as innocents and in short order devalue the charm and manners of a fine southern mecca.
Posted by wpc3iop on July 7, 2008 at 11:29 a.m. (Suggest removal)
A shotgun loaded with rock salt would make a great impression and probably calm most people down after they read about an unruly drunk who got his behind peppered...
Posted by BigSargeofSC on July 7, 2008 at 4:22 p.m. (Suggest removal)
I don't think there will be enough police to help these poort folks who are suffering. As I recall, they are on undercover assignments waiting for someone to put chewing gum on a light pole.
Posted by kerwin1959 on July 7, 2008 at 7:55 p.m. (Suggest removal)
I'm sure very few people will read this post because I'm so late posting it, but here goes:
1) To the person who recently moved here and noticed SOME of these residents downtown seem to be elitists --- they are. Great observation, especially for a newcomer.
2) To the person who says we're going to go the hell for drinking......whatever. Not everyone who drinks behaves like the people in question.
3) Re: the College of Charleston students....they're not all crazy, high and drunk. Many of them are extremely smart adults who are there to get an education and enjoy college life. It's like every other college, everyone gets blamed for the actions of a few.
4) Re: moving the College. Not a chance. The college has been there longer than the people who live in the French Quarter(unless someone we don't know about is eligible for the Guinness Book). The elitists knew CofC, MUSC & The Citadel were here when they moved to their homes. Also, downtown is currently the destination for many USC, Clemson, Newberry, PC, etc. students during the summer -- they sublet apts & it's easier to get work in Charleston than in other areas in the state because of the TOURISM.
5) I agree wholeheartedly with concerns about downtown. I don't live in the elite French Quarter, but I'm tied of my car getting hit by people who DO NOT know how to parallel park(drunk or not); I'm tired of people taking a parking place that's supposed to be for residents only --- but I also realize it's the cost of living in a metropolitan area that's also a beautiful tourist town which attracts millions of dollars to the area.
The answer? No one thing will fix this, but several things could be considered:
A) Pay for off duty officers with your HOA fees(if you're not charging HOA fees, you're idiotic elitists);
B) Curfew the French Quarter --- require residents to have an ID in order to be out past a certain time;
C) Require bars in the French Quarter to have an earlier "last call" than 1:00 or 1:30 a.m.; and lastly
D) Reconcile yourselves to the fact that downtown Charleston is like the ER; the most critical cases are "seen" first(like home invasions, burglaries and RAPES), then less critical "injuries"(vandalism, property damage, noise violations, illegal parking, etc.) Unfortunately, the lesser injuries don't get attention as quickly as the more serious injuries. Such is life.
Good luck. I hope a solution can be found.
Posted by wonderdog on July 7, 2008 at 8:21 p.m. (Suggest removal)
What Kerwin1959 said!