Posted by moonpie on August 28, 2008 at 6:10 a.m. (Suggest removal)

HOW ABOUT Taxpayers call for SPENDING reform? Suspending the raising of my taxes period!

Posted by shoelaces on August 28, 2008 at 7:25 a.m. (Suggest removal)

I am in my classroom awaiting my students'arrival.

I am also awaiting my fate after the dreaded 10 day count. We are a small school with a dwindling population. We are not a failing school, yet our families are leaving for other schools and being given permission to do so. As a result we are overcrowded in one grade yet have low numbers in others. We may end up with cuts in the teachers and larger class sizes. I won't lose my job but someone else may. If we don't get the numbers I may end up moved to a grade that I have neither the experience nor the desire to teach.

Then when our children decide to return we have cut classroom teachers and end up overcrowded. After the 10 day count there won't be much anyone can do if our numbers grow.

I hope McGinley reads the paper and checks the posts. I don't want to hear the CCSD only had 4 vacancies to start the year. That is VERY MISLEADING!!! That is only because we cut positions and enlarged class sizes. It isn't because we had tons of applicants. SHAME ON THE POST AND COURIER!! Let's do some research on this one.

Money is NOT being used effectively in our schools. Too much is being spent at the top to pay for people who DO NOT IMPACT THE EDUCATION GOING ON IN MY CLASSROOM.

Here you go.....we are going to wax the floors less often and clean libraries less often. Wow!!! Bet that will save some money!!

Come on people!!! WE are being cheated now. The children are being cheated now!!! You cannot put 28 children into an elementary classroom and expect ALL of those students to excel. Not when nearly half of them come in below grade level.

PEOPLE!!!! Hang on. It's going to get a lot worse in CCSD now that we are cutting out the cost of cleaning our schools.....forget about what's going on in the classroom....we don't matter......

Posted by theronce on August 28, 2008 at 7:40 a.m. (Suggest removal)

shoelaces, you are right on in your reference to who within the system has to cut back. When the schools could count on property taxes, they had no worries about the economy. Property taxes were unaffected. The public school industry needs to stop their club and teen sitting activities. Teach. They may need more money to teach, but take the money from their junk activities.

Posted by charlestonpride on August 28, 2008 at 8:08 a.m. (Suggest removal)

This mess was created by the State Department of Education. We ended up 20 million short and Greenville County ended up 12 million richer because of the state's formula to distribute funds. We have to start at the top to get this cleaned up.

Posted by shoelaces on August 28, 2008 at 8:10 a.m. (Suggest removal)

I like extracurricular activities. Those are important. What is not needed are all the fluff jobs at the district level. And believe me...it's really fluffy downtown!!!

Something has got to give.

Was money cut???? No. We just didn't get the amount "needed."

Posted by zekemire on August 28, 2008 at 8:53 a.m. (Suggest removal)

$74 million for one school building? THAT IS NO WISE USE OF TAXPAYER MONEY! While they may not be glmarous edifices, all the older school buildings must be renovated and used instead of spending countless millions on new facialites! What about old big box buildings like Walmart, Kmart, Lowes or others? They can be converted and upgraded to school facilities at a fraction of the cost for new buildings! It is time that you think about not only the students, but, THE TAXPAYERS AND HOW THEY ARE CONSTANTLY RAPED FOR MORE AND MORE SPENDING! THEY CAN ONLY TAKE SO MUCH BEFORE THE ENTIRE SYSTEM IN BANKRUPT!! Businesses have to adjust their spending based on revenue! IT IS TIME ALL GOVERNMENT AGENCIES INCLUDING EDUCATION IS REQUIRED TO DO THE SAME!!

Posted by guidedbystewart on August 28, 2008 at 9:33 a.m. (Suggest removal)

More knee jerk reactions on taxes! Thomas1776 if you worried about other problems as much you worry on taxes, you might have something worthwhile to say. People, the new tax system is deeply flawed in that it does not account for the rapid growth that some of the districts in this area are experiencing and reality check folks, GROWTH TAKES MONEY! From the planning end to hiring of teachers, this is the case, and with new system, it does not allot enough money for rapidly growing districts while they allot more than enough for districts that are not experiencing growth. Yes, another short sighted plan made by the bureacrats at the Statehouse (I really believe that many in the statehouse want to sabotage public education to give more weight in their argument on school vouchers!).

Posted by tc1 on August 28, 2008 at 10:20 a.m. (Suggest removal)

The new system might need adjustments, I don't know. But if nothing else the most important single result is it FORCES regular discussion of education and taxes. Under the old system the great god Growth provided automatic tax increases without discussion or justification, a great life for developers and realtors and screwed the existing home owners with uncontrolable ever increasing property taxes. No discussion, no vote no justification by the school boards. If property owners couldn't pay then the government just takes their home. I am not talking about fools who tried to keep up with the Joneses and took out mortagages they couldn't pay from lenders who knew they couldn' pay. Just ordinary honest people.

Posted by shoelaces on August 28, 2008 at 10:38 a.m. (Suggest removal)

Early: I often comment during meetings that we do spend more time on our "bottom" group of learners than on our "higher" learners. It is a real shame.

Not that I really care about the school Report Cards but we earn more points if we move our middle kids to a higher level than if we move the low students to the middle mark. And in many cases the lowest kids don't move at all.

I am guilty of putting my own child in a higher performing school than her own home school. At the first sign of anything going on with her, I will yank her out of public school and pay for private. Her future is not going to be gambled on.

I really just want to be left alone to teach. I am just so angry that people on the outside really have no idea how cut backs hurt those of us in the classroom.

Where should most of the money go????? And I would like to see a published budget listing ALL employee positions and $$$ amounts spent. How much is really trickling down to the classrooms where it SHOULD go?

And hey SC "education" lottery.....what a crock. Why doesn't each district start hitting up the lotto folks for some money?????

Posted by tc1 on August 28, 2008 at 10:59 a.m. (Suggest removal)

shoelaces,

Because the lottery was sold and set up to send more kids to college. Kids who couldn't do the work because problems at the K-12 levels aren't being solved. Colleges raised their tuition, more assistants hired, more departments created, more good feelings all around, but, the kings new clothes still weren't there. :) :(

Serious question. Do we teach outcome based education here or do the kids know that 2+2 does not equal anything but 4?

Posted by tc1 on August 28, 2008 at 11:02 a.m. (Suggest removal)

BTW shoelaces nothing I said was meant to reflect on you.

Posted by STREETLAW on August 28, 2008 at 12:41 p.m. (Suggest removal)

Here's an idea. A state wide school district. Kids go to the nearest school and if that one is full the next closest that is not. Put a 5 year ban on any new development in areas with growth problems until the situation gets under control.

Very little about education in SC has to do with education. More about logistics, discipline, territorialism and fraud, waste and abuse.

Posted by guidedbystewart on August 28, 2008 at 12:57 p.m. (Suggest removal)

STREETLAW,
You have a point, there are definitely too many districts, and at the very least they should only be one district per county. You are right, it is more about logistics, territorialism, etc., etc., but that is the case with all government agencies. One the main reason my 911 happened is because the lack of communication amongst government agencies, in this case between the FBI and CIA was a major flaw and was contributed by some of the problems you mentioned.

Posted by guidedbystewart on August 28, 2008 at 1:01 p.m. (Suggest removal)

STREETLAW
Sounds like you have worked for the governemnt before?

Posted by jsks on August 28, 2008 at 1:14 p.m. (Suggest removal)

Taxes, taxes, is that all you people care about? I completely understand that the answer for a quality education isn't necessarily more money, but I do think you have to invest. Folks have commented that its the state government's fault. Well, I have some news for you, about 10% of every education dollar comes from the Federal government and when the federal government decided to divest in education, who has to make up the shortfall. Over the past 7 years, we have seen a complete and utter abandonment of domestic priorities. Education, Health Care, infrastucture, and the list goes on. The quicker we get our current President out of office, the better. Taxes. Are you kidding me? Did anyone watch the Olympics? Do you see the progress China has made in past 8 years? The types of investments they have made. I am a patriotic American, but this country is not living up to its ideals. We have got bigger fish to fry.

Posted by justjerry on August 28, 2008 at 1:32 p.m. (Suggest removal)

Federal spending on education has gone up 50% over the last 8 years. I am not saying that it has done any good but it has increased significantly quicker than the rate of inflation. As for China, if you think having a totalitarian government with virtually no regulation on the evironment that is built on virtual slave labor is something to admire you might want to rethink that opinion.

We have been giving through social welfare programs billions and billions over the last 50 years and it is obvious that it has done nothing to help the problem. If anything it has compounded the issue. The problems with the schools come in a large part from a complete lack of discipline at home that carries over into the schools. The other problem is that instead of fixing problem schools we just tell folks with the good kids to go to a better school somewhere else and the folks who aren't able to are stuck in a continually degrading school. Bad schools are not going to get better if all that is there are bad students with bad parent(s).

Posted by guidedbystewart on August 28, 2008 at 2:13 p.m. (Suggest removal)

justjerry,
Do you really want us to believe federal spending on education has gone up 50% over the last 8 years? I don't believe that for one minute. Maybe you have got it confused with military spending?

Posted by mkris on August 28, 2008 at 3:18 p.m. (Suggest removal)

Get this straight: Charleston's educaitonal problems can be laid directly at the teachers feet. Teachers in Charleston are STUPID. Not dumb, not idiots, but STUPID.
Almost every other state has a strong teacher's union. First and foremost, they yield alot of political power by shear membership which translates to voters.
Second, they advocate and exercise that power for professional recognition. Something that is sorely lacking in Charleston. School administration can act, but it better be sure its acting correctly or the Teacher's Union will come down like a ton of bricks on teh offending administrator.
Third, Teacher's Unions use thier political power to advocate for proper funding for education and to do thier jobs. They will not stand idlely by while anti-tax and private school parents fight to block funding.
Fourth, they advocate to professional salaries, small class sizes and not plantation wages with field sized classrooms..

Posted by guidedbystewart on August 28, 2008 at 3:33 p.m. (Suggest removal)

RW
FYI, The military is just as wasteful as the public school system if not much more, but that's ok, we all know that it is a part of the conservative's agenda to keep us dumb and subservient!

Posted by charlestonpride on August 28, 2008 at 3:42 p.m. (Suggest removal)

rw Just how much do you think a voucher will be worth?

Posted by tc1 on August 28, 2008 at 4:04 p.m. (Suggest removal)

Yes, China is a great example. The olympic site was beautiful, Bejing was beautiful, calm and prosperous. To build that image they raped and looted the rest of the country, locked up potential disenters even shut off irrigation for local farmers to water the flowers to build that Disneyworld to present to the rest of the world. In addition they stopped traffic and shut down most of the manufacturing in hopes of having air you could breath and see through so NBC cameras could show their fantasy land fraud. This is the example Obama and jsks say the USA should emulate? Yes, Obama said the same as jsks, I saw the audio/video.

Ok so teachers unions are the reason all the big city schools in the nation are so incrediblly great that people are knocking each other over to get in, not out, of them, ROTFLMAO. Bad managment gave unions a reason to exist. Interestingly, organized crime immeadiately from the unions begining and to this day also see the value of unions not to mention the democrat party. To themseves not the union members.

Posted by jsks on August 28, 2008 at 4:11 p.m. (Suggest removal)

RW and justjerry,

Hey we meet again RW. This is precisely why foreign countries are out "Americaning" America. I have been working in the education field for over 10 years and it is amazing that folks wonder why US students once scored tops in Science and Math and now we are somewhere between 15-20 globally. Hello? Yes, of course China is guilty of some major ethical/environmental/social issues but, "your America is the best country in the world attitude" will ultimately be our demise. Doesn't the conservative/republican mantra state competition is good? Well, what's the point of competition if you can't recognize you are getting beat? Why is it such a unpatriotic thing to say, China and India are outspending, outsourcing and out-playing us at the game we invented?

Posted by jsks on August 28, 2008 at 4:22 p.m. (Suggest removal)

I am one of those liberals you are referring to and I think spending on the military is absolutely necessary. At the same time, I think we need fiscal responsibility! Am I blowing your mind R's and conservatives? How can it be, you are thinking to yourself? Well, a strong military is a powerful deterrent but a strong mind is ultimately the tool that is going to win the war on terror or whatever else this lame brained administration has come up with this week. It's easy to pigeon hole all liberals as big spending, communist nut jobs and vice versa. Let's be honest. Government spending has been out of control over the past 8 years but when you look at discretionary spending for education versus defense, there is no comparison. My argument is that the President didn't need to veto an education appropriations bill (He did this last year) that included $3 billion more in spending that he requested while at the same time, the Iraqi government is running a $80 billion surplus. Republican or Democrat, you have to see that this administration is ass backwards.

Posted by justjerry on August 28, 2008 at 4:31 p.m. (Suggest removal)

guidedbystewart, you are correct, it has not gone up 50%. It has gone up about 40%. The discretionary spending in 2002 was 42.2, in 2009 it is proposed to be 59.2. Sorry for the incorrect information.

Based on the laughable proposals and rhetoric spewing out of Denver it appears that it is not the conservatives are the ones trying to keep us down.

Posted by justjerry on August 28, 2008 at 4:33 p.m. (Suggest removal)

jsks - I agree on the bass-ackwardness!

Posted by tc1 on August 28, 2008 at 5:22 p.m. (Suggest removal)

" "your America is the best country in the world attitude" will ultimately be our demise"

And what part might outcome based, anything goes, it's not your fault no disipline disruptive education play in that demise?

"it is amazing that folks wonder why US students once scored tops in Science and Math and now we are somewhere between 15-20 globally"

Conservatives don't wonder about it, they know. It was because our parents the teachers and principals showed us in the manner described well in above posts the consequence of not doing it their way. They did not care if our feelings were hurt because 1+1=2 not 3 like we said on our test. Like it or not, and most of us didn't, we did it their way. Result? We did well in science and math competing against the world!

"China and India are outspending, outsourcing and out-playing us at the game we invented?"

Precisely Because they are playing by the old rules that we invented that made us great and not the new rules that you are trying to force on us?

"but a strong mind is ultimately the tool that is going to win the war on terror or whatever else this lame brained administration has come up with this week."

Not until the strong and the brave and the realistic kill the plague that says in clear certain terms they we must die, no compromise, no give and take, only one demand - we die. It doesn't even matter to them how many of their own they murder as long as - we die.

"Government spending has been out of control over the past 8 years "

Yes, the republicans are copying the democrats and you're still not satisfied. You implied that you are educated then surley you know that Congress has complete control of the purse strings and that the democrats have controled Congress for as long as most of us can remember.

"President didn't need to veto an education appropriations bill (He did this last year)"

I'm sure, odds are in my favor, the democrat congress included socialist vote buying excess so if he did veto it liberals could point and curse the boogy man again.

"while at the same time, the Iraqi government is running a $80 billion surplus"

Yes, that P me O but it doesn't justify a Congress that acts like spoiled arrogant teenagers. But they do reflect a lot of our population today. Another reason for the math/science problem?

Posted by mkris on August 28, 2008 at 5:46 p.m. (Suggest removal)

RW
You are exactly what is wrong with this country. Stupid and opinionated. What are your qualifications to expound on education? So you went to school so now you know everything. Teaching is a profession and deserves professional wages.
Being a parent with children doen't mean you know anything except pushing them out. Send your kids to some private school, but pay your own way. The public ows you nothing to continue your cycle of ignorance. Still have to pay your taxes.

Posted by tc1 on August 28, 2008 at 6:23 p.m. (Suggest removal)

RW, Sorry, I know it ain't my place but I can't help it :)

mkris,

Could be:

He can see the children around him that can't read or do math without a calculator.

He knows enough to hold a job,feed and cloth his family

After his wife "pushing them out " he feeds, clothes them and worries about their education and future.

If he can I imagine he would send his kids to private school and pay his own way. But unlike your leader Obama he can't because he has to pay yours to.

He is the public

Lifes certainties - death and taxes

BTW where is all that tolerance stuff you libs are always screaming about?

Posted by guidedbystewart on August 28, 2008 at 6:38 p.m. (Suggest removal)

tc1, Really, I am not getting your point?

Posted by wonderdog on August 28, 2008 at 8:16 p.m. (Suggest removal)

How many more years will it take before we realize that throwing money at a bunch of over indulged administrators at CCSD is NOT GOING TO SOLVE THE PROBLEM. Maybe they should try to cut the unnecessary spending ($800 per month car allowances, trip to England to recruit teachers, "working vacations" in places like Hawaii, etc.). That's what well run businesses and we ripped-off taxpayers do to make ends meet.

We are constantly told to think of the kids......shouldn't CCSD do the same?

Posted by shoelaces on August 28, 2008 at 9:06 p.m. (Suggest removal)

tc1: My beef with the lottery is it is that is supposed to be for education, that's why I always put it into quotes....it isn't really for education.

Nobody here is seeing the big picture. They are cutting back on cleaning our schools....we got the email today. That is how they are saving money???? Big freaking deal.

The money isn't going to teaching kids. It is going to the people in the high paying jobs that find all kinds of ways to justify their positions in the district.

SHOW ME THE MONEY!!!! WHO GETS WHAT???? WHERE DOES IT GO??? WHAT IS THE BREAKDOWN FOR EVERY LITTLE DIME????

It is absurd and it will only get worse. Just stay tuned...you will see.

Posted by wonderdog on August 29, 2008 at 6:53 a.m. (Suggest removal)

Thank you for your perspective from in the trenches, shoelaces. You have my admiration!

I agree with you 100% - there needs to be fiscal accountability. They need to open the books and show us where the money goes!

Posted by shoelaces on August 29, 2008 at 10:41 a.m. (Suggest removal)

Thanks Watchdog. I love what I do but I don't like what I see the "leaders" doing to a system that is already flawed.