Posted by lemonhead on August 20, 2008 at 4:21 a.m. (Suggest removal)

5,000 bail,sounds alittle to cheap for death of a baby,seems the price of a life has gone down,kill a chil and get out on 5,000,he left 3 kids unattended and the 2 yr old put 9 month in shower... yea ok soundsss fishy there

Posted by moonpie on August 20, 2008 at 6:17 a.m. (Suggest removal)

Wow what are people thinking? This is horrible.

Saw an interesting and scary stat yesterday. Women with higher educations are chosing not to have babies at all. Chosing careers over kids. No problem there. BUT women with no education and usually living in poverty are having twice as many babies as in the past!
What's this say about our future?

Posted by DoaMM on August 20, 2008 at 7:16 a.m. (Suggest removal)

Moonpie, it says that welfare money must be good...

Posted by ccfirefighterchick on August 20, 2008 at 7:50 a.m. (Suggest removal)

Moonpie, what this stat says is that some of us choose not to have children of our own because we are already forced to pay for other people's children. I choose not to have children. Why should I, as a professional, give up something that I worked very hard for while I was in college? Why should I have children in my own home when there are plenty of children in the Charleston area that my tax dollars support already?

The low-income mothers that are pushing those babies out know that the more they have, the more money they get. They can mooch off of society for the rest of their lives and it's okay in their eyes.

But, back to the article. I do think that $5,000 is very low for the loss of a baby's life. This scumbag shouldn't have been given the option of getting out. He endangered three lives that night. He shouldn't be allowed near children. Just my opinion.

Posted by DoaMM on August 20, 2008 at 7:58 a.m. (Suggest removal)

ccfirefighterchick wrote:

"I choose not to have children. Why should I, as a professional, give up something that I worked very hard for while I was in college?"

Some would call that a very selfish comment and way of life. I've heard this said before and the backlash from other people for "not doing what you're here on Earth to do" (bring new life to the world) was amazing.

Kudos to you ccffchick. You've made a choice for your life and of your own free will. Keep it up.

I just wish this wouldn't have happened. Another instance of a parent's poor decision. Too many instances of this lately...

Posted by candygirl on August 20, 2008 at 8:09 a.m. (Suggest removal)

10:30 pm and the children has the run of the house,why were they not asleep in bed?

Yeah ,put it on the 1 year old!

Posted by Tammie on August 20, 2008 at 8:20 a.m. (Suggest removal)

$5000? Wow, that's the going rate for babies now, huh? Pathetic.

CCfirechick, I see what you are saying. I honestly did not want to have children at one point either. I enjoyed being an auntie and a godmother. Now that I am about to have a baby, I see life in a whole new perspective. It's not all about me anymore. Now...if you wanna be an honorary auntie since you have all that money, me and her daddy would greatly appreciate it. :-) Lol

Back on topic...This is a very sad story. My condolences and prayers to the family of this precious baby. I would have thought that the father would have been held more accountable.

Posted by RTC on August 20, 2008 at 8:31 a.m. (Suggest removal)

So, that's the tale he's telling. He could have drowned that baby very easily. I truly hope I'm wrong, but I have never heard of a 1 yr.old that was capable of turning on a shower. If the baby boy was floating then the baby girl obviously knew how to plug up the tub also.
This story reeks of some very big lies.

Posted by SomeTruthPlease on August 20, 2008 at 8:35 a.m. (Suggest removal)

I am sure that he is no longer, at least at this point, allowed near the other children. The $5k was simply bond, the money posted so that he might remain free while awaiting trial. It isn't the monetary value that is placed on the victim. Does he pose a risk to the general public? Possibly not, and that was probably weighed by both the judge and the Solicitor's office. If he was a working man, he's probably on bail so that he can continue to work to help support the other kids.

Posted by sc4peace on August 20, 2008 at 8:41 a.m. (Suggest removal)

This story is awful- I feel so bad for the children! I wonder where the mom was? Work maybe, but I bet she is devastated...God Bless those children

Posted by summerville_guy on August 20, 2008 at 9:06 a.m. (Suggest removal)

How could a one-year-old even lift the baby up over the side of the tub?

Posted by carlinjani on August 20, 2008 at 9:08 a.m. (Suggest removal)

I am new to the Charleston area. Now I know why everyone I meet refers to your newspaper as the "Newsless Courier." Without trying to find inconsistencies, one immediately jumped out at me. The man couldn't have been let out on bail Wed. night. Today is Wed! He wasn't in jail last week. Is the paper seeing into the future?? Also, some of the people who sent in comments refer to 'welfare people.' Do we know that they were on welfare? For all we know the man & his wife are both employed! I feel for that poor man. He has to live with himself, knowing that he was responsible. My prayers go out to that poor family. They need all the prayers they can get.

Posted by MissPriss on August 20, 2008 at 9:14 a.m. (Suggest removal)

I feel so sorry for the children and I hope the father gets what he deserves. This story doesn't add up. . .

Posted by a_set_love on August 20, 2008 at 9:23 a.m. (Suggest removal)

For all the places I have been in this world and for all the wonderful, loving, caring, women I've met...... I've always been surprised at how few I've met in this Charleston region.

Posted by luckylady on August 20, 2008 at 9:44 a.m. (Suggest removal)

This is so sad. It's terrible when a child dies. The father is a true slug, not only did he kill his own child, but he wanted his 1 year old daughter to take them blame. Imagine if the father gets cleared of this what heartache that little girl would feel thinking she was the cause of her little brothers death.I will keep the family in my prayers - not so much for the father though - he will have someone else to deal with in the end if he is guilty and I personally think he is.

Posted by ashleyatwork on August 20, 2008 at 9:47 a.m. (Suggest removal)

As a mother of 4 children, I do not think a 1 year old can pick up a 10- 15 pound baby and carry it into another room( at 9 months a baby is almost double birth weight). Then have the dexterity and strength
to turn on a faucet. Then have the knowledge to plug the tub. I dont think at 1 mentally she would have even been
"playful" enough to want to give baby a bath.

Posted by ysillyme on August 20, 2008 at 9:48 a.m. (Suggest removal)

a_set_love~
Maybe if you'd spend some time away from honky tonk bars, houses of ill repute, and X rated stores you would meet some of the best, wonderful, loving, caring, BEAUTIFUL women on this planet. Nothing silly about this post!

Posted by carlinjani on August 20, 2008 at 10:20 a.m. (Suggest removal)

Very good Newsless Courier!!!! At least you read the comments and went & fixed one error in your article. You have added the date of Aug. 13, last Wed. to the on line article, but I have the newspaper!!! Now go and get the real facts about the rest of the article!!! The baby was 9 mos old & had a sibling age one? For all we know, the poor man probably just ran out to the garage to grab something and couldn't find it & lost track of time. If he was trying to throw blame on one of the other children, would he have said he was in the garage 45 minutes? He would have had a better story! A terrible, terrible accident! He will have to live with for the rest of his life. This is a punishment he won't be able to escape.

Posted by a_set_love on August 20, 2008 at 10:27 a.m. (Suggest removal)

Perhaps there even more errors, with this story, than just the date he was released from jail.

Posted by Tammie on August 20, 2008 at 10:43 a.m. (Suggest removal)

There are too many holes in this story.

Posted by oldglory on August 20, 2008 at 10:54 a.m. (Suggest removal)

ccfirefighterchick, you are very intelligent to use your options in this world. I applaud you.

Slinging arrows does more harm than good. Don't like seeing spiteful words among commentors. Everyone is entitled to their opinion(including arrow slingers if I were honest).

The truth will be revealed in this case, I am sure. No matter what we think personally this man is 'presumed innocent', you know.

Posted by Yeah_I_said_it on August 20, 2008 at 11:17 a.m. (Suggest removal)

Most babies turn the HOT water on first, so it would have been more believable if the baby had burned himself.

My condolences to the family. This is tragic.

Posted by carlinjani on August 20, 2008 at 11:36 a.m. (Suggest removal)

coldbeer..sorry you didn't see the sarcasm in a_set_love. Other than that, your comments are good. I don't want to get into a spitting match with writers. All I care about is the truth & the damage that misinformation inflicts on people.

To the newsless courier....are you sure about the date now? Isn't there an editor who is supposed to check copy so that it is correct before it gets printed? Can you please fix the other inaccuracies?!?!?!

Posted by Marianne0558 on August 20, 2008 at 11:42 a.m. (Suggest removal)

My 1 year old couldn't even walk yet.
My 1 year old niece can walk, but I seriously doubt she would be able to pick up another baby only 3 months younger than her.
My 2 year old can't even climb into our tub by herself.
She definitely wouldn't even know how to turn on the water, or shower, or even plug up the drain.

I smell fish. And it isn't stephaniem's cooter rot...

Posted by coolfreaknbeans on August 20, 2008 at 11:43 a.m. (Suggest removal)

"And unless you've got a bullet proof vest and $250 bucks that you're willing to spend on a $20 whore, stephaniem can't help you either." ColdBeer-Priceless.Be careful sephanie may try to tap your keg. LMAO

Posted by a_set_love on August 20, 2008 at 11:49 a.m. (Suggest removal)

Posted by ColdBeer on August 20, 2008 at 11:03 a.m. (Suggest removal)

"a_set_love, um, is there a reason you decided to share with us that you can't get laid? I mean, it has absolutely nothing to do with this article. Unless stephaniem logs in and sees your post, putting out your personal problems here for all to read isn't going to help you. And unless you've got a bullet proof vest and $250 bucks that you're willing to spend on a $20 whore, stephaniem can't help you either."

ColdBeer, sorry you misread my post and injected your own personal problems into it.

I simply said I've met lots of wonderful, loving, caring, women elsewhere. "Most" of the women I've met here are cold and ruthless "as pointed out by some of the comments here today."

There are a small number of real jewels here, ladies stand up and take a bow.

Though I've never resorted to visiting one of the, obviously many, City of Charleston ho's you refer to, I'm surprised 'YOU' know so much about them.

Posted by BerkeleyCo_Mom_of_3 on August 20, 2008 at 11:50 a.m. (Suggest removal)

First off, Good lord...Sparky Flickner Lee Toothman...what kinda name is that? Second, someone needs to take a saw to this guy's frank 'n beans to make sure he has no more children. Third...one word for a baby without direct supervision...crib!

a_set_love you are AFU! Catch a clue!

Posted by DoaMM on August 20, 2008 at noon (Suggest removal)

Berkeley Co Mom, let me see if I can break this one down for you:

Sparky: His father was a poor electrician (as in "bad at it")

Flickner: His Mom always carried a Bic lighter or picked her nose, one of the two

Lee: They loved the Dukes of Hazard

Toothman: The family portrait probably resembles a Mr. Ed family reunion snapshot or the graveyard shift of any Waffle House.

Posted by riddiksgirl on August 20, 2008 at 12:02 p.m. (Suggest removal)

How does a nine month old have a one year old sibling? Maybe this guy has made some babies with different moms. Oops! He could very well be a single dad who has custody of all of his children. We are so quick to judge, and I am ashamed to say that I am guilty of it as well. I think the bail is low because the dad is remorseful and is showing it. Mr. Toothman could be absolutely devastated at what his negligence has caused.

It just takes a split second for a tragedy to happen.

Posted by BerkeleyCo_Mom_of_3 on August 20, 2008 at 12:06 p.m. (Suggest removal)

DoaMM ... thanks for the laugh!

Posted by Tammie on August 20, 2008 at 12:14 p.m. (Suggest removal)

Marianne and DoaMM, please stop!!! Lmao

Posted by DoaMM on August 20, 2008 at 12:25 p.m. (Suggest removal)

I just call'em like I see'em

:)

Posted by Yeah_I_said_it on August 20, 2008 at 12:33 p.m. (Suggest removal)

riddicksgirl, a baby is 1 year old from 12 to 23 months. So, it is possible for both children to be born from the same mother. Or, as you said it, he has kids from different women.

Posted by BerkeleyCo_Mom_of_3 on August 20, 2008 at 12:35 p.m. (Suggest removal)

Either way, he is obviously not cut out for parenting.

Posted by thoughtfulone on August 20, 2008 at 12:36 p.m. (Suggest removal)

This story is about a father that was careless with an innocent child. How does welfare and the mom get involved? The problem that I have with people who leave these comments is that instead of trying to encourage people who aren't as financially stable as others, you want to bring them down. Please point out to me where it says anything in this article about the mother who is on welfare. Could it be possible that this man had custody of his children? Could it be possible that he is an established business owner who's not on welfare who just made a mistake? Even if it wasn't a mistake and he murdered the child, people with money do screwed up things also!

Posted by BerkeleyCo_Mom_of_3 on August 20, 2008 at 12:43 p.m. (Suggest removal)

Mistake? Leaving a 9 month old baby and two siblings under the age of 4 unattended with free roam of the house is more than just a mere mistake. I don't care how much money he has or doesn't have, he shouldn't be a parent.

Posted by a_set_love on August 20, 2008 at 12:50 p.m. (Suggest removal)

I apologize too, Bubba. Alls good.

I still don't know what AFU means, so that one was wasted.

Posted by BerkeleyCo_Mom_of_3 on August 20, 2008 at 12:56 p.m. (Suggest removal)

Just a shot at your comment on Lowcountry women, of course, I really can't argue with you. I haven't really looked for any women, of course my husband might think of it as a bonus if I had a girlfriend. No can do, I like my meat on a stick.

AFU stands for all f'ed up. And hey, maybe you really are. No clue there. I had to stand up for the women of the Lowcountry as I am one for the time being.

Posted by carlinjani on August 20, 2008 at 12:59 p.m. (Suggest removal)

Berkeley Co_Mom_of_3 & all of you other folks. I raised 5 children to be great adults & there are things I would change if I could. All I can say is something that should be familiar to you all "Judge not, lest ye be judged." I am sure everyone has something in their past that they would not want posted for all the world to see!!

Posted by BerkeleyCo_Mom_of_3 on August 20, 2008 at 1:02 p.m. (Suggest removal)

I am being preached to? Judge me, please...bring it on! As for my past, hells bells...it was all fun!

Posted by Yeah_I_said_it on August 20, 2008 at 1:04 p.m. (Suggest removal)

I love it when people misuse Bible quotes and then do the same thing that they are using the quote against!

Posted by moffett1240 on August 20, 2008 at 1:12 p.m. (Suggest removal)

It's a strange thing to hear how many moms and dads of the year there are in here. I'm sure that since any of you had children you never have been to sleep since their birth because you watch them 24/7 or you have never caught your child getting into things with your back turned. I just think there is more to this story that has not been reported or wouldn't he still be locked up

Posted by carlinjani on August 20, 2008 at 1:13 p.m. (Suggest removal)

No one is being preached at. I don't judge people...unlike most of the people who are judging on this post site.

How am I misusing Bible quotes? I'm not judging anyone, I'm asking others not to be so judgemental. If you see yourself in what I say, that is your problem. As I said, there are things in my past that I'm not proud of. Can't people just leave this poor family alone. They are suffering enough!

Posted by Yeah_I_said_it on August 20, 2008 at 1:19 p.m. (Suggest removal)

http://www.capalert.com/judgenot.htm

Matt. 7:1 "Do not judge, or you too will be judged."

This is the verse so many use to try to shame Christians for discerning poor behavior, ethics, morals, and values: the "judge not lest ye be judged" verse...Using only Matt 7:1 is entirely incomplete. This verse is not speaking to not judging at all -- it is speaking to not judging unfair or any other cheap and selfish way....

...Yes, we do have the right and the authority to judge the behavior of others as long as we honor and obey His Word doing it. That Jesus is the only one who can judge is speaking to judging whether someone is or is not saved. Neither you nor I nor anyone else who ever draws a breath (except Jesus) has the authority to say whether another has or has not been saved. Only Jesus can make that judgment since only He can give Salvation. Nor may we who discern poor behavioral based on His Word think of ourselves as "better than" the one whose behavior we judge as poor.

Posted by BerkeleyCo_Mom_of_3 on August 20, 2008 at 1:20 p.m. (Suggest removal)

My problem? You took aim at me by name sweetheart. As for the family, I am sure they are suffering plenty, that still doesn't make this guy fit to parent. Nobody is perfect, but it's kind of a no-brainer not to leave three very small children alone with access to the whole house. Either that or he might be lying to cover his own a@@. Whatever the case, that's my comment and I really could care less about the things in your life you would do differently as a parent that you use in a sense to justify this man's actions or inactions as they were.

Have a lovely day!

Posted by jeff61 on August 20, 2008 at 1:32 p.m. (Suggest removal)

Posted by carlinjani on August 20, 2008 at 1:13 p.m. (Suggest removal)

Can't people just leave this poor family alone. They are suffering enough!

I don't think anyone here is driving by thier house yelling nasty things at them.

carlin,, this is a comment section to comment on the story, I think some people should really rethink about why they are coming in here.

Posted by carlinjani on August 20, 2008 at 1:32 p.m. (Suggest removal)

Please read what Moffett1240 wrote above. As for myself, I was talking about when Jesus wrote in the sand when Mary Magdalene was being attacked. The man did something wrong and he will have to go through the rest of his life with that.

Thank you Moffett1240 for writing what I have been trying to say all along.

Posted by BerkeleyCo_Mom_of_3 on August 20, 2008 at 1:38 p.m. (Suggest removal)

ColdBeer..you deserve a couple of cold ones for your most recent post. Love it!

Posted by moffett1240 on August 20, 2008 at 1:42 p.m. (Suggest removal)

I don't know about the rest of you but I know when I grew up if we had movie night and we all fell asleep on the floor and thats where we crashed. How do we know if the children were up or asleep and they woke up when he went to the garage. I can't imagine what the family is going through and my heart goes out to them

Posted by Yeah_I_said_it on August 20, 2008 at 1:42 p.m. (Suggest removal)

carlinjani, then you are referencing the wrong verse entirely.

"Let he who is without sin cast the first stone." John 8:7

This is another counterfeiting of the Scriptures many have tried to use to shame us for what we do in his name. "Let he who is without sin cast the first stone" is not speaking judging. Let me explain.

Using the KJV this time, in John 8:1 - 11 scribes and Pharisees had caught a woman in the act of adultery (the woman commonly referred to as the prostitute) and told Jesus who was teaching in the temple that the Mosaic Law required she be stoned to death. Trying to make an opportunity of this to trick Jesus that they might accuse Him, they, with stones in hand, asked Jesus what He says about the Law. After Jesus tried to ignore their repeated questioning, He told them "He that is without sin among you, let him first cast a stone at her." One by one each man dropped his stone and walked away.

Jesus was not arguing with the judgment. Nor was Jesus arguing the law nor the woman's guilt. Jesus was arguing with our right to execute the woman. Once all the men had dropped their stones Jesus confronted the woman and asked her if any of the men were still there to condemn her. When she answered "No man, Lord", Jesus told her that neither did He - He forgave her of her sin. He did not excuse the sin of adultery/prostitution, he forgave her of it. All that is sinful before forgiveness is still sinful after forgiveness. Not only was Jesus not afraid to call a sin a sin, He was not afraid to call a sinner a sinner. He even reminded her of the sin of adultery/prostitution by telling her "Go and sin no more."

The point of this as applicable to this article? Jesus did not argue the act of judging the chosen behavior of the adulteress/prostitute.

Posted by Marianne0558 on August 20, 2008 at 1:43 p.m. (Suggest removal)

While I am no "parent of the year," I would NEVER leave my child unattended for 45 minutes just playing in my living room for a variety of reasons:
1) Electrical sockets (yes, my tot knew how to pull the covers off of them)
2) Tables. They have hard corners.
3) Electronics... Cords
4) Speed dial on my phone
I could go on and on.

I might not be parent of the year, but I can say with every fiber of my being, that I am a better parent than Mr. Tooth. Why? My child didn't drown in a suspicious shower.

BTW-Babies are NOT 1 for 11 months, Pediatricians go by months until they are 36 months old (for all of you asses, that is 2 and 1/2).

Posted by BerkeleyCo_Mom_of_3 on August 20, 2008 at 1:44 p.m. (Suggest removal)

I don't know about the rest of you, but I am still growing up...

Posted by BerkeleyCo_Mom_of_3 on August 20, 2008 at 1:47 p.m. (Suggest removal)

And before I forget, Amen Marianne!

Posted by Yeah_I_said_it on August 20, 2008 at 1:48 p.m. (Suggest removal)

More on judging:

"The Bible provides quite enough knowledge and understanding to make each of us a righteous judge of behavior, even and especially our own if we r-e-a-d it and not just look at the words and use the total of what He says, not just the pieces that seem to fit an agenda: that seem to fill our own bellies; that seem to excuse sin in "sinema."

Tom Carder
President
CAP Ministry

Posted by Marianne0558 on August 20, 2008 at 1:53 p.m. (Suggest removal)

Funny me, I was unaware that we were attending Bible School today.
If I wanted lessons on the bible, I would go to church.
Or read it for that matter.
You don't have to know every fact of the book to believe in God or live a Christian life.
GET THAT CRAP OUTTA MY FACE!

Posted by carlinjani on August 20, 2008 at 1:53 p.m. (Suggest removal)

I agree with everything you said after your Bible rant. My writing started when I noticed several discrepencies in the original article. The paper has changed the date 2xs since then. The newspaper is responsible for all of this. They don't much care if their stories are accurate, they are just interested in selling papers.

Posted by Marianne0558 on August 20, 2008 at 1:54 p.m. (Suggest removal)

I've always thought it was funny that you don't see Buddhists cramming fat little gold statues down people's throats... or Jewish people shoving the Koran or Kosher pickles down people's throats...
It's always Christians that take it upon themselves to shove the bible and God down everyone's throats whether they want to listen or not.

Posted by BerkeleyCo_Mom_of_3 on August 20, 2008 at 1:55 p.m. (Suggest removal)

Why does everything turn to religion in the South? Always religion, never morality. That's the problem here...most people may have religion, but not as many of them also exhibit morality.

Posted by jeff61 on August 20, 2008 at 2:01 p.m. (Suggest removal)

Damm how did wind up on the Old Time Gospel Hour Web Site,,,Ok,, my mistake now Click Back Arrow,, type www.charleston.net
Comment Section

Posted by Yeah_I_said_it on August 20, 2008 at 2:03 p.m. (Suggest removal)

Marianne,

That was not for you. I was just setting some things straight when it comes to people that throw the "Judge not lest ye be judge" Bible quote around and don't use it properly. You can always skip over the posts if you don't want to read them. I wasn't cramming anything down anyone's throat, just having a conversation with another poster. 'Tis all!

Posted by Marianne0558 on August 20, 2008 at 2:05 p.m. (Suggest removal)

Well this is a story about a dead child, not Sunday Bible Cram Session.

Posted by Yeah_I_said_it on August 20, 2008 at 2:06 p.m. (Suggest removal)

There are many stories on here that are not about "cooter rot" but you have no issues throwing that in anyone's face.

Posted by DoaMM on August 20, 2008 at 2:08 p.m. (Suggest removal)

Although Marianne, kosher pickles are tasty!

MMMMMM!

Posted by Yeah_I_said_it on August 20, 2008 at 2:09 p.m. (Suggest removal)

And I love Koshers as well.

Posted by DoaMM on August 20, 2008 at 2:09 p.m. (Suggest removal)

"cooter rot"...

Now that's another good one...

Posted by BerkeleyCo_Mom_of_3 on August 20, 2008 at 2:12 p.m. (Suggest removal)

I concur, I have no doubt they are tastier than the Koran, the bible and little gold statues (unless of course they have been made with chocolate -- Chocolate rules). If only the thumpers who came to my doorstep brought a chocolate bible...

Posted by Marianne0558 on August 20, 2008 at 2:13 p.m. (Suggest removal)

Sorry, I tend to be more serious when it comes to children... Might be because I'm "Friggin Parent of the Year" as someone put it so nicely :)
Thanks for the award, where's my trophy dangit?!

Posted by Marianne0558 on August 20, 2008 at 2:14 p.m. (Suggest removal)

I need to shove it down someone's throat and give them unwanted advice repeatedly.

Posted by Marianne0558 on August 20, 2008 at 2:16 p.m. (Suggest removal)

CB, you must be confusing me with stephanie.
A) not a hooker
B) never shot anyone (with anything other than water or vodka)
C) I never think about killing children that are annoying me
D) I LOVE South Carolina
E) I'm clean as a whistle
F) I don't have nudy pics online
G) I wasn't a freak in high school (someone said it on a different story)
H) I don't hide loaded guns in my pillows
I) Did I tell you I was "Parent of the Year" already?!
....still waiting on my trophy...
One of you beaches best be at Onies getting a tin can engraved for me right about now

Posted by jeff61 on August 20, 2008 at 2:18 p.m. (Suggest removal)

All of this is like passing an accident on the highway - I don't WANT to look, but sometimes I look, and then I feel nauseous and hate myself for exposing myself to that.

Posted by DoaMM on August 20, 2008 at 2:18 p.m. (Suggest removal)

Or kosher pickles, for that matter. They're dangerous, and the juice stings the eyes when it hits your face.

I guess the same could be said for coot...never mind...

Posted by Yeah_I_said_it on August 20, 2008 at 2:18 p.m. (Suggest removal)

CB, this bud's for you...Lol!

Posted by BerkeleyCo_Mom_of_3 on August 20, 2008 at 2:18 p.m. (Suggest removal)

Sorry Marianne, I took it. I was whacking some religious nut job in the head who was lecturing me on judging people. All dusted off and yours.

Posted by Marianne0558 on August 20, 2008 at 2:22 p.m. (Suggest removal)

YAY! Unsolicited advice time!!!
1) Children should not even know what a television is until they are at least 3 years old.
2) Television is not a babysitter
3) Talk to kids as soon as you're pregnant-they will be smart. My 2 year old knows her full name, ABCs, and colors... teachers keep telling me how unbelievable it is that she is only 2. It's not hard, it's just talking!
4) No milk or juice in cups/bottles at night. Unless you want your kid to have green, rotten teeth.
5) Get a job! I can pay for my child by myself, I shouldn't have to pay for yours as well.

More to follow after my cocktail hour :)

Posted by Yeah_I_said_it on August 20, 2008 at 2:32 p.m. (Suggest removal)

If anyone didn't notice I was actually defending the posters "right" to "judge" by showing that the verse was misinterpreted and misused by carlinjani. But alas the disdain for anything Christian has clouded the view and distorted what my intent was in posting as I did.

And Marianne, you are right there is nothing unbelievable about all of those accomplishments by your 2 year old. My niece is 2 and does all of those things as well. And this board is always filled with unsolicited advice across all lines; be it religious, racial, moral, sexual, or what have you. That is what we do :-).

Posted by jeff61 on August 20, 2008 at 2:36 p.m. (Suggest removal)

Get a job! I can pay for my child by myself,
Well hell,,, one of five isn't bad....

Posted by DoaMM on August 20, 2008 at 2:40 p.m. (Suggest removal)

"And this board is always filled with unsolicited advice across all lines; be it religious, racial, moral, sexual, or what have you. That is what we do :-)."

Everyone should all have a few cocktails...
Everyone should ride motorcycles naked...
Everyone should give me money...

Kinda like that, Yeah?

:)

Posted by Yeah_I_said_it on August 20, 2008 at 2:44 p.m. (Suggest removal)

DoaMM, exactly like that! :-)

Posted by DoaMM on August 20, 2008 at 2:46 p.m. (Suggest removal)

Yeah, they've done that since I got here a month or two ago. Just remember, opinions are like a**holes...everyone has one and most of them stink...

Posted by DoaMM on August 20, 2008 at 2:49 p.m. (Suggest removal)

...no offense to all Y'all, though! CB, CJ, tripsa, jeff, Tammie, granny, ysilly...Y'all are alright by me, I don't care what they say!

Posted by Girleygirl on August 20, 2008 at 3 p.m. (Suggest removal)

Something is not right with this story!

But nevertheleass I do feel sorry for the baby and his/her family.

Posted by carlinjani on August 20, 2008 at 3:08 p.m. (Suggest removal)

Good, at least you are leaving that poor family alone now. It seems that the newspaper is not alone in taking things out of context and twisting words to suit themselves. Nothing was misinterpreted or misused by me. What was Jesus telling the Pharasees? Don't stone her unless you are without sin. Same thing.

Posted by Yeah_I_said_it on August 20, 2008 at 3:14 p.m. (Suggest removal)

Tsk, tsk, tsk.....you didn't even know which Bible story you were referencing so why should anyone take advice from you?

Posted by jeff61 on August 20, 2008 at 3:19 p.m. (Suggest removal)

Posted by carlinjani on August 20, 2008 at 3:08 p.m. (Suggest removal)

Good, at least you are leaving that poor family alone now.

On the topic of this family,, yea this story does not add up. I doubt a 1 year could pick a 9 month old up. Something does not seem right here. Midview Drive,,, hmmmmmm

Posted by slimbo6969 on August 20, 2008 at 3:20 p.m. (Suggest removal)

My prayers are with the family and for all of the individuals that don't truly know the Lord...

Matthew 7

Judging Others

1"Do not judge, or you too will be judged. 2For in the same way you judge others, you will be judged, and with the measure you use, it will be measured to you.
3"Why do you look at the speck of sawdust in your brother's eye and pay no attention to the plank in your own eye?

Posted by BerkeleyCo_Mom_of_3 on August 20, 2008 at 3:28 p.m. (Suggest removal)

Posted by slimbo6969 on August 20, 2008 at 3:20 p.m. (Suggest removal)

My prayers are with the family and for all of the individuals that don't truly know the Lord...

Why thank you, but I live in a place called reality. Organized religion is just another forum for sinners to come together and judge others...I prefer a bar for that sort of thing.

As for the bible, greatest book of fiction ever written.

Posted by jeff61 on August 20, 2008 at 3:30 p.m. (Suggest removal)

I thought the topic of Arch was dead cypress

Posted by DoaMM on August 20, 2008 at 3:31 p.m. (Suggest removal)

C_J,

I addressed the issue of his name earlier...scroll way up...

Posted by BerkeleyCo_Mom_of_3 on August 20, 2008 at 3:33 p.m. (Suggest removal)

Cypress? How much LSD do you think this Walston Hixson has had in his day? I see a f'ing piece of wood.

Posted by Tammie on August 20, 2008 at 3:43 p.m. (Suggest removal)

Never say pickles around a pregnant woman...I'm raiding Sam's when I get off...thanks guys!

Posted by Marianne0558 on August 20, 2008 at 3:45 p.m. (Suggest removal)

Make sure you don't throw them at people, Tam!
Pickly juice stings.

Posted by BerkeleyCo_Mom_of_3 on August 20, 2008 at 3:45 p.m. (Suggest removal)

MMMM...grilled cheese sammich...holy or not.

Posted by Marianne0558 on August 20, 2008 at 3:48 p.m. (Suggest removal)

"Walston Hixson also says he sees an image of a demonic-like creature when the wood is flipped upside down."

Hmm... doesn't all wood look demonic when flipped upside down?

I know, Tammie-GO TO MY CORNER!

Posted by Tammie on August 20, 2008 at 3:50 p.m. (Suggest removal)

Marianne, I am too through with you for the day...you have my sides hurting..

Posted by a_set_love on August 20, 2008 at 3:51 p.m. (Suggest removal)

Posted by BerkeleyCo_Mom_of_3 on August 20, 2008 at 3:28 p.m. (Suggest removal)

"As for the bible, greatest book of fiction ever written."

Why is that, BerkeleyCo_Mom_of_3, is it too hard to understand when you read it?

Posted by Marianne0558 on August 20, 2008 at 3:53 p.m. (Suggest removal)

Don't laugh too hard, wouldn't want that baby to slip out...

Posted by suec on August 20, 2008 at 4:17 p.m. (Suggest removal)

Maybe the older child put both of the younger ones in the tub?

Posted by BerkeleyCo_Mom_of_3 on August 20, 2008 at 4:32 p.m. (Suggest removal)

a_set_love ... It's not the understanding I lack in regards to the bible, it's the belief. To each his own. I don't need a preacher, just an ice cold beer or 7.

Posted by DoaMM on August 20, 2008 at 6:01 p.m. (Suggest removal)

Well, I know Berk_Mom buys them in at least 12 packs 'cause they sure don't sell packs of 7!

Good point, suec...

Posted by nurseshawney on August 20, 2008 at 6:04 p.m. (Suggest removal)

Some people are too quick to judge. Something can happen to your children in a split second, that is all it takes. I will state that my 2 year old and my 1 1/2 year old are able to stop up my tub and start a bath, I have seen them do this. My husband is this gentleman's cousin and I have watched those children several times. That little girl, does know how to stop up a tub and start a bath. I have also witnessed this little girl carrying her little brother around and attempting to give him a bath. Just dont be too quick to judge and make this man look like a monster. Every parent does house work when the kids are asleep that is the only way to get it done. This is just a horrible tragic accident that has hurt us all.

Posted by a_set_love on August 20, 2008 at 6:06 p.m. (Suggest removal)

BerkeleyCo_Mom_of_3 - Shame that is, you're missing some great stories chock full of intrigue, love, murder, lust and the forgiveness of ones enemies. Most writers of today can't compete.

Posted by DoaMM on August 20, 2008 at 6:29 p.m. (Suggest removal)

Cypress, I had to wait till I got home to watch that video. I think it lends more the side of evil than that of good.

Anywho, a_set & Berk_Mom, I just think Y'all have differing opinions that you may not be able to resolve. a_set, continue on your current path to enlightenment and, Berk_Mom, enjoy an ice cold one while snuggling up with a juicy story from 20 b.c. in that there bible.

There! Problem solved!

Posted by jeff61 on August 20, 2008 at 6:34 p.m. (Suggest removal)

Posted by nurseshawney on August 20, 2008 at 6:04 p.m. (Suggest removal)

I have also witnessed this little girl carrying her little brother around and attempting to give him a bath.

Well I would have thought would have reacted to that. I do not see where a "1 yr old" has any business carrying a "9 mo old", and on top of that try to put him in a bath tub. You did not see anything wrong with that? That baby could have been dropped and hurt at anytime. I am not being quick to judge here but I would hope better judgement could have been used to allow the baby to be carried around like that. Or am I wrong??

Posted by Yeah_I_said_it on August 20, 2008 at 6:41 p.m. (Suggest removal)

Also, nurseshawney, if it is know that the child can run a bath and stop up a tub, more precautions could have been taken to make sure the children could not get into the bathroom.

Posted by luvmydogs59 on August 20, 2008 at 6:42 p.m. (Suggest removal)

Marianne, the Koran is not what Jewish people use, that is what Islam uses. The old testament is what the Jewish religion goes by.

And yeah, a good Kosher pickle spear rocks, especially on a bacon cheeseburger!! Wasn't raised anywhere near kosher so I've grown up with all foods...yum! (And for those who think that being Jewish automatically means keeping kosher haven't been raised in the religion...there are levels of Judaism, with reform being the most liberal rung and very seldom do people keep kosher if raised that way).

As for the actual topic at hand, I agree that there is something very fishy about this story. My opinion is that this father is covering his ass and using an innocent 1 year old in the process. Just the fact that he left children of that young an age alone for 45 minutes is neglect in my eyes. When my kids were little they probably wished that I'd leave them alone for a bit LOL. It took until my daughter was about 2 1/2 or 3 for her to even pick up her younger brother. I also had covers on the faucets that left the kids unable to turn them on.

While none of us are perfect, those of us parents who were/are vigilant will never be able to understand how something like this could happen. So very sad.

Posted by abitskeptical on August 20, 2008 at 8:16 p.m. (Suggest removal)

Posted by Marianne0558
"I've always thought it was funny that you don't see Buddhists cramming fat little gold statues down people's throats...or Jewish people shoving the Koran or Kosher pickles down people's throats..."

Now why would a Jew be forcing the Koran on a person?
Just curious.

Marianne also said "It's always Christians that take it upon themselves to shove the bible and God down everyone's throats whether they want to listen or not."

It might be true that people who claim to be Christian are proportionately more guilty of this behavior than those identifying with other religions. I'd be curious to know if this behavior is seen in other countries where Christianity is not the religion of the majority.

However, considering how many people in the world claim to be Christian, it is clear that MOST Christians do not do this.

Making unsubstantiated sweeping statements about an entire group based on the behavior of a few who claim to belong to that groups...well that borders on bias & bigotry...

Now where are eyfig & My50cents when you need them?

Posted by dhshjh on August 20, 2008 at 8:41 p.m. (Suggest removal)

Thanks nurseshawney I also know the father and the mother. These people need to realize that the whole story is not in this one article. Bible or no bible they shouldn't be judging things that they know nothing about. Especially from the post & courier that is known for its inaccuracy. The father and mother loved their children very much and a mistake took one from them. You can all say what you want but no one watches their kids 24/7 and if you think they are asleep you go on to do other things. If you have children then you know that unfortunately they are good at getting into things and I am glad it has never been anything serious in your life. This father will suffer with this the rest of his life. They are also not on welfare, in fact both of them work and because of other people like you they cannot even morn their son together.

Posted by Hutch on August 20, 2008 at 8:48 p.m. (Suggest removal)

The Law States that Mr. Toothman is innocent until
proven guilty. God knows the truth, the family
needs prayer. The story didn't mention where the
Mother was when the drowning happened.

Posted by jeff61 on August 20, 2008 at 9:09 p.m. (Suggest removal)

dlshjh,

No one here is preventing the parents from morning the lost of their son. This is a newspaper comment section. I don’t think anyone here questioned if the parents loved their children. However some,, who claim to know the parents have came here and made some questionable comments about how this baby was carried around by an infant and so on. It seems they thought that was cute. No one here is outside the home of these people screaming comments at parents so that argument carries no weight. So how is anyone here preventing these parents from grieving????... It appears the police prevented the parents from morning the lost of their son because they arrested the father and held him in jail. I can only guess they had probably cause to do this for one reason or another.

Posted by dhshjh on August 20, 2008 at 9:53 p.m. (Suggest removal)

I can't answer for anyone else, but I think what was meant by "carrying her brother around" was when it was done in front of adults and I have seen numerous adults let younger children hold babies when they are standing right there, I'm sure it never enters their mind that the child will try to do it on their own. The little girl is almost 2 and a very big 2 at that. This comment section is not the only place where comments are being made. I'm just tired of hearing them, because, unfortunately, whether you think so or not, they are hurting people that are already hurting terribly. The mother was at work to answer one of the questions that seems to be on everyone's mind. They arrested him for neglect, not murder,or he would have been arrested when it happened 2 weeks ago, and now only because of the comments of people who need to see "justice done" because they don't believe it could ever happen to them. I pray they are right and it never does. Well, as I said before, I know from my own experiences with my own family how quick and unpredictable kids can be.

Posted by jasrds on August 20, 2008 at 10:11 p.m. (Suggest removal)

First of all, by show of hands, let all of you negative comment writers who have never done anything incredibly stupid raise your hands. Oh, none of you? Are we in the presence of greatness? I think not. Yes, I am aware that his stupid mistake cost the life of his child and I'm sure he'll never forgive himself. But let me add that I know this man personally, as does my husband, and we sat and watched the news tonight in utter shock at what happened. This guy is a very kind-hearted person who loves his children. This was not a malicious, neglectful, uncaring father who cared more about his own free time than his children's safety. Furthermore, I wonder how all of you would act if a)this was a friend of yours or b) you were speaking to him face to face. Hopefully you have some shred of empathy in you that would prevent the name calling, judgment-making, hypocrisy that you have committed here. Its always easy to pick on a stranger who has found himself in the news via such horrible circumstances. But remember, the next time you do something stupid, completely by accident, you could be the one that everyone else is mercilessly shredding online.

Posted by miss_sunshine on August 20, 2008 at 10:30 p.m. (Suggest removal)

dhshigh & jasrds........Awesome way to go I too have known the family for years and you both have said it all there's nothing more I can say but that some think there in a chat room. Some of these comments have nothing to do with whats truly at hand.........We just need to support them not tear them down this is such a terrible thing for them or anyone esle in the world to have to face and go threw....are'nt we all supposed to come toghter not apart and cause more pain to the family.....my love and prayers are with you all may god help you in this time of need.

Posted by moffett1240 on August 21, 2008 at 12:27 a.m. (Suggest removal)

Any one who got to know this man would know how much he loves kids and how kids seem to flock to him. I have seen children from other families run up to him to give him hugs and kisses. you all paint him to be a monster. This was an accident. Oh and I know one of you out there will say I never leave my children unattended.... BULL @#$% I'm a parent and I know that when they sleep thats about the only time I have to do any work in the house. How many here have woken up to see that their children were all ready up, or went to the bath room and didn't take your children with you. Then you are a horrible parent and need to be arrested. Your child could have been the one in the paper. So make all your cute comments to this all you want. But all of you parents out there know good and well you have been close to having this happen just the flip of the coin came out with you not having to endure the pain and loss as he has

Posted by Tammie on August 21, 2008 at 7:56 a.m. (Suggest removal)

PLEASE, THIS IS REAL. DO NOT RESPOND TO: tripsa, evilgenius, jeff61, usna04, arch_dude, chascarolinagirl, tammie, and RW. They're the same person. He's been threatening my family. I'm signing off for now."

Lmao, really? If men can get pregnant, I need to make some money off of Tripsa, EG, and Jeff!

Posted by Marianne0558 on August 21, 2008 at 8:52 a.m. (Suggest removal)

Koran does not equal Jewish people, blah blah. So sorry. You get the point I was trying to make though.

Tammie, they could have lied about being pregnant?
I did see that man who was pregnant on Oprah, but I guess he was just a woman that looked like a man? I'm still confused on the issue.

Posted by Marianne0558 on August 21, 2008 at 8:53 a.m. (Suggest removal)

Someone also said that they have seen 2 1/2 year olds plug up tubs and run baths...
2 1/2 year olds have a lot better motor skills than a 1 year old.
Also, you say they can run a bath, but the story states the shower was running. You tell me how a 1 year old (not a 2 1/2 year old) can plug a drain, run the water AND turn on a shower.

Posted by Tammie on August 21, 2008 at 10:14 a.m. (Suggest removal)

Marianne, I am accused of being 7 other people...that's hilarious!

It'll be interesting when the rest of this story comes out though. I know all of the facts havent been laid out.

Posted by missingyou on August 21, 2008 at 10:40 a.m. (Suggest removal)

what is the acceptable time frame for checking on a sleeping child? is it 5, 10, 15, 20, or 30 minutes? i am guilty, guilty, guilty of leaving a child unattended for 45 minutes or more, while i was cleaning the garage, gathering, sorting and starting laundry, spring cleaning another room of the house and re-arranging the furniture, etc. i don't think anyone is blaming 1 year old---get your facts in order, she will be 2 next month. i have grands not quite 14 months apart and the older can and has tugged and toted the younger. babies love babies, they are innocent and undamaged. everyones life style is different, if one wants a child to go to bed early, say at 8 they would not let them nap at 6. so on the other hand if one wanted a child to sleep late in the morning---say because one parent worked the late shift then it would only make sense to try to feed the child something late and keep them up as long as possible. my thoughts and prayers have been with this entire family since the day this horrific tradgedy occurred and remain so today with each and every one of them. if an investigation revealed that this was not an intentional drowning, why was the father arrested for what is an terrible accident?

Posted by a_set_love on August 21, 2008 at 10:42 a.m. (Suggest removal)

Maybe the one year old is really a two year old......... or a three year old.

After all the source of this info, "IS" the Newsless Courier.

Look how hard they work stories to keep Mr. Riley as mayor of the city of charleston.

Posted by Marianne0558 on August 21, 2008 at 10:49 a.m. (Suggest removal)

missingyou:
I am a parent of a 2 year old (26 months).
Once she goes to bed at 8pm, she stays there. I know when she gets up because her bed is in my room. I keep the bathroom doors shut at all times. When I have to leave her alone to throw a load of laundry in, I will put up a baby gate in our room (where she is safe), that way, senseless tragedies won't happen to her.
Who gives children naps at 6 anyway?

Posted by jeff61 on August 21, 2008 at 12:07 p.m. (Suggest removal)

I for one an not questioning the 45 minutes issue. Once the kids are in bed I don't see anyone looking in on them every ten minutes. I am not saying the father was an evil person or neglectful of his children. I simply find it difficult to imagine that a little girl who is almost 2 could remove a 9 mo old from a crib and carry it to the bath room, place the baby in the tub put the stopper down and turn on the shower. If this scenario seems reasonable to you so be it. I happen to find it questionable.

As to those coming to the defense,

This poster who know the family said
Posted by nurseshawney on August 20, 2008 at 6:04 p.m. (Suggest removal)
I have also witnessed this little girl carrying her little brother around and attempting to give him a bath.

However another contradicts this:
Posted by dhshjh on August 20, 2008 at 9:53 p.m. (Suggest removal)
I think what was meant by "carrying her brother around" was when it was done in front of adults and I have seen numerous adults let younger children hold babies when they are standing right there,

The first post does not sound like simply holding a child in front of adults.

On another note, no one here is preventing any of you from supporting this family. I can not speak for all but most have commentted on what has been published and have questioned it. Some supporters have come here and made contradictory statements, which again were questioned.

Posted by oltmannt on August 21, 2008 at 12:47 p.m. (Suggest removal)

OMG I just can't believe the ignorance of you people! Reading these comments is enough to make one ill. Those of you who posted them should be embarrassed. Pages and pages of useless comments and slurs. suggest removal? YES

This family is in my thoughts and prayers.

Posted by abitskeptical on August 21, 2008 at 12:56 p.m. (Suggest removal)

Yea Marianne, I got your point & hoped/assumed you do know Koran does not = Jew.

MY point, however, though admittedly subtle, is that while Jews certainly would not & do not shove the Koran on others, there are some people who absolutely not only wish to convert us to following the Koran, they do much MUCH worse than proselytize about it.

One could say that indeed they do not merely FIGURATIVELY shove it down our throats.

Religious fanaticism & misapplication is not isolated to one group. Over & over history has shown us that HUMAN NATURE has a great capacity to distort a lot of things.

Get it?

Posted by Marianne0558 on August 21, 2008 at 1:11 p.m. (Suggest removal)

Got it. Good. Moving on....

I'm not embarrassed at all, oltmannt-
I call 'em like I see 'em.

Who should be embarrassed? A father trying to pass of this questionable story. The cops who don't question whether a 1 year old baby has the ability to pick up a 9 month old boy, lift him high enough to place him in a bathtub, turn on the water (not hot enough to scold the poor thing), turn on the shower, AND plug the drain.
I guess furthermore, YOU should be embarrassed for believing it as well.

Posted by missingyou on August 21, 2008 at 1:41 p.m. (Suggest removal)

Marianne0558
i wrote "let them nap at 6" not give a nap at 6. point being not everyones life is on the same schedule, some people work day shift, some afternoons, some nights. and how do you know that the cops didn't question whether a nearly 2 (yes i said 2) year old has the ability to pick up a 9 month old? i would hope that Charlestons finest could figure out some method of investigation there.

Posted by Marianne0558 on August 21, 2008 at 2:03 p.m. (Suggest removal)

Well even a nearly 2 year old isn't quite capable of picking up a 9 month old, lifting them high enough to be put in a tub, has the motor skills and smarts to know which faucet is hot and cold, turn them both on, turn the shower on, and plug the drain.
Story is full of holes.
Yes, parents don't always have the same schedules, but kids are not the ones working the night shift. They should have normal routines, any pediatrician would say the same.

Posted by Marianne0558 on August 21, 2008 at 2:16 p.m. (Suggest removal)

I would also hope that Charleston's "finest" would be able to follow the laws and not park in handicapped parking spots. I would also hope that Charleston's "finest" would be able to catch a suspect on foot after they were in a car accident (they do after all, go through training for these situations.

No, I don't hate the police, I use them when needed. I rely on them to keep my family safe-which is what my tax dollars pay their salaries for. I just hate when they are incompetent and think they are above the laws because they have notebooks with tickets in them.

Posted by abitskeptical on August 21, 2008 at 2:25 p.m. (Suggest removal)

Marianne--you have made very good & legitimate points relative to children & protecting them. On that we absolutely are on the same page.

You seem to be very level headed on many points. I guess I picked on you because you were making a sweeping statement & the Koran thing made it seem blatantly inaccurate on at least a couple of levels.

Also, telling people not to express their opinions(GET THAT CRAP OUTTA MY FACE!) when those opinions are heart felt is contrary to the purpose of these threads.

For example, I find some folks' "religious" (ha!) insertion of their disbelief in God &/or His greatness/goodness, the Bible, etc. tedious,childish & often bordering on purposely trying to trigger a reaction. But folks have a right to insert that into their discussion.

Faith & a lack of it is a factor that does tend to influence our outlook & opinions about things & I imagine that is why is often gets brought into the discussions.

Of course some folks do have a hard time expressing a religious view without demanding that all agree & that is frustrating to me as well.

Posted by Marianne0558 on August 21, 2008 at 2:33 p.m. (Suggest removal)

In all actuality, I am Christian. I attend church every Sunday. I do NOT however, preach to people about how they should follow the bible directly. The bible is full of stories. Some are even ridiculous. I don't believe gay people should be bashed (or anyone for their lifestyles as long as their lifestyles don't include murder, rape, etc). I don't believe slavery is right either. Bottom line, I get so frustrated when people come on and say a line basically what the bible is teaching, then some azzclown has to correct them. Interpretation is different for everyone and every religion.

It should be blatantly obvious that this dolt should not have children.

Posted by Yeah_I_said_it on August 21, 2008 at 2:59 p.m. (Suggest removal)

The azz clowns are the ones that sit back and say nothing. That is what is wrong in most religions today, everyone wants to lean to their own understanding instead of getting God's understanding. I guess as long as it is not religious, people have the right to speak freely. My bad, I'll keep that in mind. Thanks so much, lesson learned. That is all!

Posted by Marianne0558 on August 21, 2008 at 3:04 p.m. (Suggest removal)

How can you possibly know, 100% what God's understanding is? Have you met him/her? I didn't think so.

Posted by Marianne0558 on August 21, 2008 at 3:05 p.m. (Suggest removal)

Edit:
You understand what you were taught to understand.

Posted by Yeah_I_said_it on August 21, 2008 at 3:19 p.m. (Suggest removal)

Thanks, Marianne. You see how it works. I said something and you made a rebuttal. There was no me telling you not to post and no you telling me not to post. This is what having dialogue is about.

Posted by Marianne0558 on August 21, 2008 at 3:23 p.m. (Suggest removal)

Um yeah, I never tell anyone not to post.

Posted by Yeah_I_said_it on August 21, 2008 at 3:26 p.m. (Suggest removal)

I said that because you were in my shyt about my posting yesterday. :-)

Posted by Yeah_I_said_it on August 21, 2008 at 3:27 p.m. (Suggest removal)

And you referred to me as an azzclown because of my posting.

Posted by Marianne0558 on August 21, 2008 at 3:29 p.m. (Suggest removal)

No, I referred to those people in general who correct everyone. "Judge not, lest ye be judged" is the basis of what you were saying. It still has the same meaning.
I'm glad you understand what I am trying to say though.

For future reference, if I want to call you an azzclown, I will state blatantly obvious: Yeah_I_said_it: You are an azzclown. :)

Posted by Yeah_I_said_it on August 21, 2008 at 3:53 p.m. (Suggest removal)

I can respect that, but I wasn't the one referencing the verse. I was merely letting the other poster know that she was indeed using the verse incorrectly for what she was trying to convey - which I know you cringed when you read this :-) . She was saying that the Bible (God/Jesus) says not to judge and I was letting her know that He was not saying that we cannot judge at all because

He did give us discernment and the right to speak out about things that are morally and ethically wrong. I was actually defending all of our rights to post what we are posting in the Biblical sense. I am happy that we understand each other at any rate.

And to answer your question, I believe I meet God everyday that I go in prayer :-)!

Posted by Marianne0558 on August 21, 2008 at 3:55 p.m. (Suggest removal)

Touché!

Posted by BerkeleyCo_Mom_of_3 on August 21, 2008 at 3:56 p.m. (Suggest removal)

DoaMM...well said, I will settle in with a cold one tonight and a great story!!! a_set???anyone??? which book in the bible should I go to for some murder, mayhem and romance?

Posted by Yeah_I_said_it on August 21, 2008 at 3:57 p.m. (Suggest removal)

See, I'm not that bad once you get to know where I am coming from! :-)

Posted by Yeah_I_said_it on August 21, 2008 at 3:58 p.m. (Suggest removal)

BMO3, Genesis is a good place to start!

Posted by slimbo6969 on August 21, 2008 at 3:59 p.m. (Suggest removal)

Pslams is a very good place to start with...

Posted by Marianne0558 on August 21, 2008 at 4:01 p.m. (Suggest removal)

Page 1.

Posted by a_set_love on August 21, 2008 at 4:09 p.m. (Suggest removal)

Posted by BerkeleyCo_Mom_of_3 on August 21, 2008 at 3:56 p.m. (Suggest removal)

"DoaMM...well said, I will settle in with a cold one tonight and a great story!!! a_set???anyone??? which book in the bible should I go to for some murder, mayhem and romance?"

For good romance, try the Song of Solomon!

Posted by Marianne0558 on August 21, 2008 at 4:14 p.m. (Suggest removal)

Berkeley:
This story right here has all the highlights you are looking for-murder (poor baby), mayhem (letting rugrats bathe other babies at 11pm), romance (how the babies were made, duh)

Posted by BerkeleyCo_Mom_of_3 on August 21, 2008 at 4:22 p.m. (Suggest removal)

True true Marianne...but I am not into the loss of a baby because of someone's screw up or lack of parenting skills...

Heard a song this morning that made me think of this story...Neil Young -- 'Keep On Rocking In The Free World'

Here's the little reminder part:

See a woman in the night
With a baby in her hand
Under an old street light
Near a garbage can
Now she puts the kid away, and she's gone to get a hit
She hates her life, and what she's done to it
There's one more kid that will never go to school
Never get to fall in love, never get to be cool.

Keep on rockin' in the free world,
Keep on rockin' in the free world
Keep on rockin' in the free world,
Keep on rockin' in the free world.

Wonder how many parallels there are between the woman and the subject of this story.

Posted by Marianne0558 on August 21, 2008 at 4:24 p.m. (Suggest removal)

I bet her name wasn't Sparkey Flickner hehe

Posted by Yeah_I_said_it on August 21, 2008 at 4:42 p.m. (Suggest removal)

I swear his name has to be some sick joke! I say beat the parents for putting that on him! Horrible.

Posted by dhshjh on August 21, 2008 at 6:11 p.m. (Suggest removal)

I can't believe you people, and Marianne0558 if you go to church every Sunday you sure haven't learned anything. Jesus did not bash people or make fun of their names. Where were any of us taught to bash gay people? You sure need to read your bible more or maybe you need to listen to the preacher instead of sleeping. The christian religion is about love & forgiveness. So if you are learning this stuff at your church I sure don't want to go there and I wouldn't brag about it, because you sure are not showing love.

A statement was made that this is a COMMENT page. Well the comments are supposed to be about the article. You have all gone off on to other things. If you want to chat go to a chat room. Leave this man and his family alone you know nothing about this family.

To answer some of the questions. The mother was at work and the father was baby sitting as he does every night.
The little girl is almost two as I stated earlier and a very big two. Yes she could pick up her brother. As far as her putting him in the tub, unfortunately, she most likely dropped him as she would have with any toys she was going to take a bath with. She doesn't know any better.
I don't know where the shower word came from, but because the post & courier is not perfect I'm sure they were referring to the tub. Many people call it the shower since that is mainly what we use it for.

The biggest mistake the father made is that he left the baby on the couch asleep instead of in the crib. Maybe if the baby was in the crib it wouldn't have happened. But to bash him for something all of us have done at one time or another, if we will be honest, is ludicrous. I have left my kids asleep on the couch and walked to another room. Just because the girl had picked up the baby in front of adults before doesn't mean that he would even think about that when he put them to sleep. This man loved his children very much, they didn't even go to doctor appointments without him there. I can't imagine my husband taking off work just to take the baby to a doctor's appointment unless it was for something serious.

If you want to argue the Bible fine, but whether it says it or not, don't judge something you know nothing about. He was a great loving father and this was a tragic accident. I hope all you perfect people never have a tragedy even close to this one.

My oldest sister's son was killed when he was 16 because she sent him somewhere for the summer where she thought he would be safer than in the neighborhood he lived in. His best friend killed him. Is it her fault because she didn't keep him home and watch him 24/7 ? Give me and this family a break and move to a chat room unless you really want to discuss what happened and not pretend to be mr & mrs perfect. No one is and no one watches their kid 24/7.

Posted by jeff61 on August 21, 2008 at 7:48 p.m. (Suggest removal)

Based on what you posted the biggest mistake the father made is that he left a 9 month old baby on the couch asleep instead of in the crib.

I am not sure where you learned your parenting skills but I am not sure of many that thinks it is ok to leave a 9 month old baby on a couch.

Sorry but 9 month old babies have no business being left on a couch unattended to sleep. This child could have rolled off and injuried its self.

I think it is best that you friends of the family can do is not say anything more. You have unknownly provided far more damming information of what took place in the home and are digging this man a bigger hole.

"The little girl is almost two as I stated earlier and a very big two. Yes she could pick up her brother." Ok that alone would be reason enough to ensure the baby was in the crib and not on the sofa.

"As far as her putting him in the tub, unfortunately, she most likely dropped him as she would have with any toys she was going to take a bath with."

I hope you realize a nine month old baby is not a toy and if the girl had a habit of picking this baby up and carrying it around, then again all the more reason this baby should have been in the crib?

I hope none of you are called to testify for the man because the things you have posted so far would be this man's worst enemy.

Posted by abitskeptical on August 21, 2008 at 8:45 p.m. (Suggest removal)

Good post jeff.

In reading through this I do not see much talk about the time, except one poster trying to defend it by stating that he might have been keeping them up late so they would not wake up too early in the a.m. (something about potential shift work).

Again, this "suggestion"/revelation is not helpful.

Anyone who has had young children knows they need a fixed schedule & shifting it around is very disruptive. Of course on occasion schedule changes cannot be helped, but part of being a parent is adjusting to the needs of our children, not forcing them as infants & toddlers to adjust to our needs.

Also, anyone who has had children should know that in young children especially, up to about puberty, they can get "over-tired" & this results in difficulty settling down for the night--they get into a stimulated/agitated mode & cannot easily go to sleep.

With young children, the more they sleep, the more they sleep. It never works to keep them up late & try to adjust them to your schedule. They almost always will wake up at their regular time & start the day with a sleep deficit.

My concerns/questions:

Why were all of these children up so late?
Were the older ones still awake when he left them in the LR?
Why weren't the infant & almost 2 yr. old put in their cribs?
Are these children in the habit of waking up so soon after falling asleep(if indeed they all had fallen asleep)?

Posted by dhshjh on August 21, 2008 at 9:07 p.m. (Suggest removal)

Everything I have said is in the news or the newspaper. So obviously you did not read all the news and get all the facts before you started commenting.

I already said he shouldn't have left the baby on the couch, but it wasn't done intentionally to hurt him. I don't know if you are a parent but since you know so much you must be one of the perfect ones.

Many people have left their babies on the couch, or on a bed when they are asleep. I have seven brothers and sisters, and they all have families. I also have many friends with children, and I could give you many stories that could have turned out bad. But thank God, didn't, This one did.

They were asleep, or so he thought. Why would he think that the little girl would pick up the baby if she was asleep?
And if you know how to read, I said SHE would have thought of it as a toy not me, she is only a little girl, and really, I don't know what she was thinking and neither do you .

No one ever said that she had a "habit" of carrying the baby around, it was stated that someone saw her pick up the baby & carry it. Not that it was done on a regular basis. Your the one putting more into what was said.

I just tried to shed a little light on the story and make people realize that this could happen to anyone and, yes, we need to be more vigilante with our children because anything can happen. It only takes a second.

My prayers are with the whole family. And with the people who refuse to believe that it could also happen to them.

Posted by dhshjh on August 21, 2008 at 9:22 p.m. (Suggest removal)

I'm so impressed with all the doctors and psychiatrists on these posts.

I don't claim to have all the answers to why, when, and where, only the people that were involved do. I just feel that bashing the father is disgusting when you know nothing about him. I hope none of you are ever in a situation where you can be bashed for something that was an accident.

As far as schedules, who makes them? You. You have no idea what their "regular" time is. They are probably on a schedule just not on yours.

I'm done because I thought this post was for commenting on things to enlighten people, not for people bashing and changing every one's words around.

Posted by abitskeptical on August 21, 2008 at 9:48 p.m. (Suggest removal)

I think most parents have experienced situations where something bad could have happened, but blessedly things ended up OK.

Accidents happen.

When our 2nd child was 13mos old she was sitting in a chair at the dining table & then suddenly stood up & fell sideways.

We were in military housing in Korea & the floors had thin carpet over a concrete. When her head hit the floor, it sounded like a coconut cracking, but she immediately began crying & got up & was running around normally.

My husband was the physician on that Navy base & so he checked her over, saying we needed to watch her for a couple of hours.

About 30 min. later as I was changing her diaper, I noticed that one side of her head looked like she had a jellyfish inserted under her scalp(this had not been noticeable when she was standing). I let out a scream of sorts & hubby came running. He then took her to the clinic & x-rayed her head as it was apparent she had a skull fracture, but in order to medivac her to Seoul he had to confirm that.

We did not have the facilities on our base for further testing. It was important to know if the dura(brain membrane) was intact or torn with the fracture).

When our daughter was admitted to the hospital in Seoul (for testing & observation), of course the admitting doctor had to do a thorough exam & check to see if there was any evidence of abuse, the same as my husband did & still does when a child with a "funky" injury presents for care at a medical facility.

Most of us here are just asking questions & examining the situation, not unlike that doctor did when looking over my child with the skull fracture.

When some of the "facts" or statements about the injury, or in this case death, seem odd or implausible, it is for the benefit of other children that questions must be asked.

Posted by abitskeptical on August 21, 2008 at 10:03 p.m. (Suggest removal)

For the record, while I am not a physician, I am a nurse who has practiced in pediatrics. Further I have had 5 children. The youngest 2 are now 15 & 11. So, I do know a bit about what I was saying.

The questions I asked are important. I did not expect you dhshjh to answer them. But somebody does need to answer them.

Of course I do not know what their regular time is.

But someone suggested they were being kept