Legislators skirt revising gaming lawHarrell: Drawing the line is hard, that's why many say no to any changes By Yvonne Wenger (Contact)
The Post and Courier
Wednesday, April 16, 2008
COLUMBIA — Some of them say it's silly that Monopoly, Go Fish and arcade games are against the law. And some might even believe it's a waste of police time to bust penny-ante kitchen-table poker games. But don't expect state lawmakers to do anything about it anytime soon. That's one debate that's just too controversial to take up in the General Assembly right now. "It's difficult to figure out how to draw the line," said House Speaker Bobby Harrell, R-Charleston. Lawmakers struggle with setting a boundary, he said. As in, what do you make illegal without opening the door for back-room casinos, such as the house recently raided in Hanahan that was said to be operating as one. "That's why you see some members who just say 'no' to any of it," Harrell said. Also, lawmakers argue there's no time this year to take on a complex issue such as South Carolina's gaming laws. It's one roll of the dice few are willing to make these days. Throw in the fact that it's an election year, and that religious groups would balk at the slightest inclination that lawmakers might legalize gambling, and South Carolinians might get used to the idea that anytime they pass Go and collect $200, they might go directly to jail. Learn moreTo learn more about proposals to change S.C. gaming laws, go to the Legislature's site at scstatehouse.net and search for bills 4263 and 3201. "Nobody wants to prosecute a game of Monopoly or Go Fish," said Rep. Murrell Smith, R-Sumter. "We understand how far our gaming statute goes, it's that — is it going to knowingly open the door to gambling?" Since the 1700s, the state's gaming laws have been changed very little, with spotty updates that ban certain card and dice games — Yahtzee and Monopoly, for example — in certain places such as a tavern, barn, kitchen, stable and outhouse. Legislators also argued Tuesday that under the strictest definition of the laws, arcade games could be considered illegal, too. Today, a House subcommittee will decide the fate of a bill that would let people play games such as Five-Card Draw, Texas Hold 'em and Seven-Card Stud around a poker table with friends. Rep. Wallace Scarborough, R-James Island, introduced the bill early last year after police raided a Mount Pleasant home in April 2006 where poker players paid $20 to get into the game, with a portion of the proceeds to the house. Scarborough said his bill would allow low buy-ins for recreational games, but the house could not take a cut and the game could not be advertised. Scarborough said his bill gained early support, but opposition from the Southern Baptist Convention quickly derailed it. Now, after news of the latest poker bust, people are again talking about the bill. "I, in no way shape or form, want to legalize gambling in this state," Scarborough said. He just wants folks at the VFW, or the country club, or even at his mother's bridge club to be able to raise the stakes on a friendly game with a little money, he said. Meanwhile, Rep. Todd Rutherford, D-Columbia, fought for support Tuesday for a bill he sponsored that would allow prizes to be handed out for games of skill, such as skee-ball, pinball or a novelty arcade machine. The concern is, though, that the bill would open a window, or move the state a little bit closer, to allowing video poker or other forms of gambling. The House Judiciary Committee agreed in a 10-4 vote to send the bill to the full House, although Rep. Jim Harrison, R-Columbia, said it will probably die a quick death. He said the problem is that the bill does not limit the prizes that could be awarded for the games. "If all we're trying to do is allow these games to give away teddy bears … I don't think anybody would have a problem with that," he said. "But it looks like it might move us well beyond amusement machines." Supporters of the bill argue that the current gaming laws are selectively enforced and can be interpreted any number of ways, and Rutherford's proposal would lead to debate that could add some clarity. Rep. Leon Stavrinakis, D-Charleston, said the Legislature needs to face the situation head-on and come up with a set of standards that reflect South Carolina values. "Unfortunately, the system now is, we're almost in a state of total paranoia that something's going to lead to gambling," he said. Brian Hicks contributed to this report. Reach Yvonne Wenger at ywenger@postandcourier.com or 803-799-9051. |
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Comments
This article has 47 comment(s)
Posted by Ron_Godzilla on April 16, 2008 at 2:28 a.m. (Suggest removal)
All this talk about outsourcing. Perhaps SC should outsouce it's politicians and as a result we might get a better running government. Anything is better than the majority of those bafoons in Columbia right now. Another argument for outsourcing SC politicians. It would eliminate the good ole boy system - a major unspoken liability to the state of South Carolina that in this day and age is doing more harm than good.
Posted by lillycollette on April 16, 2008 at 5:42 a.m. (Suggest removal)
How hard would it be to take that infamous legislative eraser to the names of particular games and just deal with the real issue of betting?
http://www.scstatehouse.net/code/t16c019...
S.C. Code. §16-19-40. Unlawful games and betting.
If any person shall play … in any house used as a place of gaming, … at (a) any game with cards or dice, … used for gambling purposes, … shall bet on the sides or hands of such as do game, …
§16-19-100. Imprisonment in case of conviction.
Upon conviction of any person under any of the provisions of Sections 16-19-40, 16-19-50 or 16-19-90, the court before whom such conviction shall take place shall commit such offender to the common jail of the county in which such conviction shall happen for a period not exceeding the time for which such offender has been sentenced, unless such offender shall sooner pay the fine or fines herein imposed, -- TOGETHER WITH THE COST OF PROSECUTION.--
Posted by BKLYNIRISH on April 16, 2008 at 6:31 a.m. (Suggest removal)
"...so the law will remain on the books for, maybe, the next 130 years."
I guess that means that it will still be illegal for Mr. Reyes to run a gambling business out of his home.
Until the law is changed...and I hope someday that it does...people like Mr. Reyes and his customers will be CRIMINALS. Just because we do not like the law does not mean we can ignore it.
Posted by moonpie on April 16, 2008 at 6:36 a.m. (Suggest removal)
"Scarborough said his bill would allow low buy-ins for recreational games, but the house could not take a cut and the game could not be advertised"
ARE YOU KIDDING ME?!? MORE FEEL GOOD LEGISLATION. ONE OF THESE PEOPLE BUSTED MUST BE SCARBOROUGH'S BUDDY. WITH THIS BILL YOU MIGHT AS WELL LEGALIZE OR WIPE ANY LAW OFF THE BOOKS. YOUR BASICALLY LETTING PEOPLE POLICE THEMSELFS. Personally I could care less if people play poker, machines, lotteries, etc until they start breaking the law to do so.
Posted by DanniD on April 16, 2008 at 7:06 a.m. (Suggest removal)
I think there is also an old law that says you can beat your wife on the steps of town hall on Sundays. It is also unlawful for a minor under the age of 18 to play a pinball machine. Boy o Boy do the cops have their work cut out for them.
I love how people are so selective about what they want to enforce
Posted by abitskeptical on April 16, 2008 at 7:30 a.m. (Suggest removal)
Yeh, may as well let people police themselves.
And God forbid the legislature do any thing difficult or reasonable in an election year.
One might conclude that the main reason they are there is not to serve the people of this state, but only to get voted in again.
Oh, & that probverbial window [to gambling] that they are afraid of opening...didn't they already vote to open that window with the lottery?
Posted by Hey_U_Guys on April 16, 2008 at 7:33 a.m. (Suggest removal)
I think it's ridiculous that with all of the REAL crime being committed, the police are all over this gambling nonsense. Let's not put all of this effort into capturing murderers and rapists, no, that would be a waste of time.
Posted by theronce on April 16, 2008 at 7:36 a.m. (Suggest removal)
Almost daily, people selectively obey traffic laws. With so many laws, I suspect that we break a bunch of them in the course of a year through mere ignorance. And, of course, we probably frequently break some of our own moral laws. Laws convict us constantly, it seems. Do not hold your breath waiting for a meddlesome, over-reaching, and self-serving government to clarify anything.
Posted by JohnS on April 16, 2008 at 7:41 a.m. (Suggest removal)
Knee jerk reaction. Yea that's right change the law. We will have to charge for parking in the local neighborhoods with all the in home gaming houses. People will be coming day and night driving up on the curb.
Posted by Clemson1979 on April 16, 2008 at 7:52 a.m. (Suggest removal)
Is this state run by Baptist? Give me a break. If you do not want to gamble, then dont. How did they pass the lottery? Will someone please tell me the difference between friendly poker vs the lottery? At least poker has skill involved. The lottery is a scam, but it is OK? Texas Holdem is a fun hobby, get over it people.
Posted by Hey_U_Guys on April 16, 2008 at 7:57 a.m. (Suggest removal)
They get away with the lottery for one reason. They call it the "South Carolina Education Lottery". I wonder how much money the shoddy educational programs in the area ACTUALLY see from the lottery.
Posted by crankyyankee on April 16, 2008 at 7:58 a.m. (Suggest removal)
I thing that I have never understood since coming to South Carolina is the love affair the locals have with an elected offical not because he's a good leader but because he talks with a drawl and loves reminiscing about the good old days before the northern occupation. Even the P&C endorses the same politicans term after term knowing they have been ineffective on education, the budget, immigration and so on the last ten terms! I'm not saying their haven't been some good leaders locally but they've been far and few between. I mean look at what we have presently. Scarbrough wants to take on SCE&G at gun point, Harrell makes his money brokering overpriced land sales to the County, McConnell's more interested in how much gold he can plate the Hunley with instead of how much he can keep in the State treasury and Robert (I need to speed for the voters) Ford, I can't help but ask why do you locals and the P&C vote for these folks over and over? Is it because they are just like you? I just don't get it!
Posted by ColdBeer on April 16, 2008 at 8:07 a.m. (Suggest removal)
How hard can it be for a group of supposedly intelligent people to sit down in a room and decide, based on inputs from the people that voted them in to office, what to do about these laws? Ignoring them is NOT the right answer. Not enough time to address the issue? BS! Ask any other salary worker in the state if they ever work "overtime" without additional pay. It comes along with the job. Not being able to address this issue is a bigger problem than the issue itself! Incompetent people and poor work ethics obviously rule the state government.
Posted by Satanssybil2007 on April 16, 2008 at 8:13 a.m. (Suggest removal)
wow i guess these idiots want to strip us any and all fun. Well i can assure you i would not want to face my mother's bridge club if they outlaw that as well! OMG WTF are these control freaks trying to gain?
Posted by Hutch on April 16, 2008 at 8:18 a.m. (Suggest removal)
The law is the law and should be adhere to until there is a change. If one law is constancly broken soon other laws are broken too then what do we have?chaos!
Posted by ConcernedinCHS on April 16, 2008 at 8:22 a.m. (Suggest removal)
Quoting Clemson1979 "How did they pass the lottery?"
I think they had a deal where they would ban video poker and in return adopt the lottery.
Posted by theronce on April 16, 2008 at 8:23 a.m. (Suggest removal)
History...Prior to the sceducationlottery, South Carolinians were playing the lottery in other states, especially Georgia, and were playing video poker within the state. The state government was getting nothing from the lottery players and felt like they were not getting their fair, confiscatory share from video poker. The solution was to operate its own lottery. To make sure that their lottery was successful, they had to kill video poker. They will not do anything that threatens and will do anything neccessary to enhance their present legal monopoly. Now, if anyone wants any other kind of gambling to become legal, you must come up with a sure-fire way for the state to have absolute control of the proceeds. If you do that, they will steam roll any group that opposes you.
Posted by SC_DOC on April 16, 2008 at 8:39 a.m. (Suggest removal)
It is also against the law to operate a motorized vehicle on King St.
Posted by Zod on April 16, 2008 at 8:57 a.m. (Suggest removal)
Clemson, the lottery was placed on the ballot as a referendum. The republican state house and senate would not have touched it then neither unless they thought it was too dangerous not to do so. A democrat had just won election for governor for the first time in forever. They saw there strangle hold on the state in jeopardy for the first time in a long time. Even then they didn't want to touch the lottery. It was forced as the governor's mandate. It was his mandate too. As soon as South Carolina got the lottery, he was voted out of office.
The real crime is what South Carolina chose to do with the money raised by the lottery. The Democratic governor could not control that. We chose to spend the money on buses and secondary education. That's a shame considering our primary education is in the tank.
Posted by Hey_U_Guys on April 16, 2008 at 8:59 a.m. (Suggest removal)
Check out these stupid laws: http://www.dumblaws.com/laws/united-stat...
Posted by wpc3iop on April 16, 2008 at 9:03 a.m. (Suggest removal)
Again our legislature doesn't have the guts to do what is right and sensible...my guess is that 75% of the people in the state would like to have the antiquated gambling laws done away with completely or at least revised...VOTE THEM ALL OUT OF OFFICE!!
Posted by Larz13 on April 16, 2008 at 9:17 a.m. (Suggest removal)
How about some LEADERSHIP here????
Posted by ChrisPia on April 16, 2008 at 9:31 a.m. (Suggest removal)
Auditor’s office might get closer look
By David Berman
Summerville Journal Scene
The results of the Dorchester County Sheriff’s Office audit are expected soon, possibly this week, but it appears county officials are already looking toward another audit — of a different department.
Last week, county auditor Brenda Nix requested, in writing, an audit of her office, because she has some concerns “about the way things are being handled there,” County Councilman Chris Murphy said Monday.
According to County Council Chairman Larry Hargett, a vote to approve funding the audit with county contingency funds could take place as soon as next Monday, during Council’s regular meeting.
“I believe we have enough votes to make it happen,” Hargett said.
As the holder of a constitutional office, Nix has discretion over hiring, firing and disciplinary actions. But “when it comes to taxpayer money, that falls right to County Council,” Hargett said.
Nix requested the audit around the same time news broke that one of her employees, Teresa Smoak Messex, had been suspended for two weeks without pay.
Smoak Messex, a Republican candidate for auditor, said the suspension was for “not following procedure” during a mobile home sale. She said Nix doesn’t support her bid to become auditor and has told her so.
Nix, who is not running for the office, has said she will not entertain Smoak Messex’s comments and that she stands behind the decision to suspend her.
The reasons for the audit request have not been made public. No one has identified Smoak Messex’s suspension as a cause. Nix couldn’t be reached for comment regarding the audit.
The audit would likely delve into records dating back several years, Hargett said.
That would predate Nix’s tenure as auditor. She was appointed to the post by Gov. Mark Sanford last October when former auditor Johnette Connelley left to become finance director for the Berkeley County Water and Sanitation Authority.
It’s typical for a new office holder to authorize an audit upon assuming control of an office, Murphy said.
Until last week, Nix had not asked for an audit, Murphy said.
“Timing-wise, it’s right in the middle of a political race,” Murphy said, referring to the upcoming Republican primary in which Smoak Messex will face off against Summerville real estate agent J.J. Messervy.
“I think the timing’s not good, but the fact of the matter is — she’s (Nix) not running for office, she’s asked for it (the audit) and I think we should back her on it,” he said.
Contact David Berman at 873-9424 ext. 214 or dberman@journalscene.com
Interesting???????
Posted by onedeep on April 16, 2008 at 9:32 a.m. (Suggest removal)
I have said this in almost every article about this law. We do not have to wait for the politicians to change the law.
Jury nullification allows a jury presiding over a trial to determine if the law is fair and just, and if not, render a not guilty verdict.
Lawyers and judges won't tell you about it when you are sitting on a jury, but it is the right of every jury.
So if you find yourself judging the people in this case, or any case, make sure you remember that you are judging more than just the people, you are judging the law as well.
Do not be afraid to use the power that the founding fathers gave us.
Posted by forget on April 16, 2008 at 9:36 a.m. (Suggest removal)
Interesting? Maybe. But what did it have to do with the subject at hand?
Chris- have you ever considered being an investigative reporter? It just may be your calling.
Posted by trm2105 on April 16, 2008 at 9:51 a.m. (Suggest removal)
South Carolina, too small to be our own country, too big to be an insane asylum.
Posted by LowcountryMoose on April 16, 2008 at 10:09 a.m. (Suggest removal)
It will be tabled again. Remember folks, it's an election year.
Posted by wasupwitdat on April 16, 2008 at 10:36 a.m. (Suggest removal)
Maybe we should start a campaign to stop politicians from tabling things during election years.
Posted by Rebel_Yell on April 16, 2008 at 10:59 a.m. (Suggest removal)
"Also, lawmakers argue there's no time this year to take on a complex issue such as South Carolina's gaming laws."
If they think this is a complex issue we are all in big trouble. No wonder we all eat mercury daily. Even the big mouths who move here and then criticize the society they chose to be part of are doomed . . .so they might as well roll up their carpet and move along.
As a southern rebel, what I don't understand is why yankee nasal talking politicians keep getting elected and re-elected by yankees who fail to see the character flaws in their own politicians. Geeez, what's worse, a politician who does nothing or a perverted politician who does nothing? And for all yanks, please state where you came from when you try and walk on water down here so we can call your relatives to come get you when drown in your self-proclaimed righteousness.
Posted by LowcountryMoose on April 16, 2008 at 11 a.m. (Suggest removal)
Good idea wasupwitdat, but, unfortunately passing laws that better society or represent the majority will of the people are not on a legislator's list of priorities.
Their priorities are more like:
1. Raise money for election campaign.
2. Get elected to office.
3. Introduce bills and vote in a manner that appeases the people who gave money to your campaign.
4. Raise money for reelection campaign.
5. Get reelected.
6. Repeat priorities 3,4 and 5.
Posted by Satanssybil2007 on April 16, 2008 at 11:12 a.m. (Suggest removal)
hell yeah Rebel! I agree with you!
Posted by bigwhip on April 16, 2008 at 11:38 a.m. (Suggest removal)
These people were elected to make "difficult" decisions, get paid to do so, get a retirement to do so. Harrell is blowing smoke. Bobby harrell's e-mail address is
HSP@schouse.org
Posted by forget on April 16, 2008 at 11:38 a.m. (Suggest removal)
Common sense. The law regarding the horse in traffic etc. doesn't apply to modern society. Even if the law is still on the books. The law regarding the card playing does. Even if we don't like it, it is still the law. And the Reyes didn't have a small, friendly game of poker going on. They had a casino being run from their home. I believe it may be considered that when you are paying people to deal, and you advertise needing card dealers.
Posted by abitskeptical on April 16, 2008 at 12:40 p.m. (Suggest removal)
onedeep--problem is-- often during jury selection process a judge will ask potential jurors if they've talked to anyone or read, etc. about jury nullification...& bye, bye potential juror.
NO SIR...don't want any people educated about the law, rights or process sitting on a jury.
Posted by Clemson1979 on April 16, 2008 at 1:03 p.m. (Suggest removal)
abit-I wonder if his lawyer can tell the jury that during the trial? How big of a point would that make to the city if the jury finds him not guilty!!!
Posted by crankyyankee on April 16, 2008 at 1:10 p.m. (Suggest removal)
Rebel, one of your native sons has a letter on the editorial page today, get someone to read it to you. Lindsey says we need to cut taxes, but wait doesn't Lindsey support McCain who voted against the Bush tax cuts? Wasn't it Lindsey who repeatedly voted to fund the war in Iraq with our tax dollars? Wasn't it Lindsey who called his constituents "bigots"? This folks is exactly what I was talking about earlier. Rebel will vote for Bubba simply because he's like rebel! Not because he has good ideas or improves education but because he rejects all sugestions that there is a problem. When you try to discuss important issues like education with the locals they immeadiately point out that Mississippi is worse. When you try to discuss crime they will point out that Detriot is worse. When that angle fails they will tell you to go back where you came from. Talk about the preverbial head in the sand! Don't tell me Rebel let me guess, your son is an honor student at Brentwood. LOL
Posted by Thomas1776 on April 16, 2008 at 1:30 p.m. (Suggest removal)
Seriously, South Carolina really has to many dumb clowns in office. Must be something in the water, eh?
Posted by Thomas1776 on April 16, 2008 at 1:34 p.m. (Suggest removal)
"""Nobody wants to prosecute a game of Monopoly or Go Fish," said Rep. Murrell Smith, R-Sumter."""
The law it the law. Failure to prosecute any law on the books is a clear violation of the oath people take to uphold the law. Hence, you lied under oath to uphold the law if you do not enforce the law. Thus, you lied under oath meaning you committed perjury when you took the oath. Therefore, the law says you are a criminal and must be prosecuted and be punished with jail.
Posted by Satanssybil2007 on April 16, 2008 at 1:51 p.m. (Suggest removal)
hey cranky what gives??? Look man we natives have every right to resent all the northerners who move down here and do nothing but complain about our laws our education our crime statistics.....why move here stay up north! An then when you move down here and realize things in the south are different from whatever state it is you dragged your ass down here from you want to put your yankee ppl in office to change our southern way of living to something that resembles the north! Um Hell NO! and we, mr kingdom of the deluded, would love for y'all to go back from where you came! PUHLEASE..........RIGHT REBEL??????
Posted by Satanssybil2007 on April 16, 2008 at 2:02 p.m. (Suggest removal)
I am with you allwoman. called my husband from work today and told him he was S**t out of luck tonight b/c we were not going to jail he said the hell with it he would risk 4 hours in county lock up! LMAO!!!!! hey another law - No work may be done on Sunday, OK all you walmart employees no work this sunday. and this one - It is considered an offense to get a tattoo; well my husband and every one of his brothers is going to jail!
Posted by Satanssybil2007 on April 16, 2008 at 2:37 p.m. (Suggest removal)
i feel you on the walmart riot allwoman!!! oh yeah here is one that would also cause a riot on sundays - no Ryan's buffet after church! hahahahaha
Posted by DixieTiger on April 16, 2008 at 5:36 p.m. (Suggest removal)
"Scarborough said his bill gained early support, but opposition from the Southern Baptist Convention quickly derailed it."
HAHAHA. The Southern Baptist Convention is ridiculous. Get a life and stay out of mine. Someone forgot to tell them that using government power to enforce religious beliefs is not a good idea. Just ask people under the Ayatollah.
Posted by scohn on April 16, 2008 at 5:46 p.m. (Suggest removal)
"no Ryan's buffet after church" As a former Summerville, Ryan's waitress, I assure you that most of the waitresses there HATE to work @ Ryan's on Sunday! Most waitresses there use the patrons as examples why they don't care to go to church! Non tipping, bunch of so called Christians! They can give to the church, but G_d forbid they tip the person waiting on them. Get up and get your own second, third and fourth helping of roles. They don't work for free. I have worked allot of waitressing jobs. Ryan's was the worst. No breaks during any given 6 or 7 hour shift unless you are what they call a closer too (I worked there 2 months, all over 5 1/2 hr shifts and had only one shift with a break. I had to pull a double to get it! If you want good service, tip your waiter or waitress. If you have bad service on Sunday's, now you know why!
Posted by lillycollette on April 16, 2008 at 6:23 p.m. (Suggest removal)
Even if the legislature did move forward on repealing this law it would not help the ones already charged. They got what they deserved if for nothing else but their own stupidity.
Posted by charlestonnative1963 on April 16, 2008 at 9 p.m. (Suggest removal)
These idiotic laws should be revoked...or THE POLICE SHOULD FIND A BETTER CRIME TO SOLVE....M.U.R.D.E.R RAPE, DRUGS,... I can't believe my taxes pay for that "crap" and I just noticed that I have now paid 2 months of one month salary to just the Federal government. War in Iraq and poker game arrest
Posted by charlestonnative1963 on April 16, 2008 at 9:08 p.m. (Suggest removal)
Clemson 1979...Yes SC is now and has always been under the umbrella of the Southern Baptist Church..thus our low rise to everything from education to wife abuse...and NO, is the asnwer to the one who stated that the education lottery money goes to K.12 schools...its for LIFE scholarships for college....their so called theory is that people who attend college in state stay there...the only problem...lack of funds in K 12 to GET them to college...you see our Republican state is realy a religious Baptist state and ...well we are backwards still today
Posted by SJ1 on April 16, 2008 at 9:58 p.m. (Suggest removal)
for the record, i love my northern friends that moved here for the same reasons why i won't move away. but i hate people that move to this area and begin to tell me how terrible it is, how stupid we are and how things "where you used to live" were so much better. more often than not they are from another state. btw, a northerner by south carolina standards is anyone from another state. :)
the stupid, std infested southerners (as one posts suggests) who've lived in our beautiful state all our lives are the reasons why this state has always been so beautiful and voted year after year for being the friendliest state. if it seems like things are changing then ask 20 random people in the mt. pleasant/charleston/iop area where they're from and you'll find the reason why.
oh, i guess i should comment on the gambling thing...fine the people that got busted and revise the out-dated law...but check with crankyankee first to make sure it's within his standards.