Poker players weigh odds of getting bustedFor some aficionados, all bets are off after Hanahan raid leads to nearly 200 warrants The Post and Courier
Sunday, April 13, 2008
Grace Beahm Additional StoriesCard dealers could draw years in prison, hefty fines 9 more poker suspects surrender Some implicated in Hanahan poker raid also charged in Mt. P. Some poker players nabbed in sting are repeat offenders Gambling law change unlikely anytime soon 191 warrants issued in poker sting Raid reactions could stir debate over S.C. gambling laws He was new in town, looking for a game, and got the e-mail address of another poker player off a Web site. But when he showed up for the game in Mount Pleasant, they refused to let him in. 'Nobody knew me, or could vouch for me, so I couldn't play,' said the man who asked not to be identified. 'I had to leave, which was stupid, because if I was a cop, I already knew where the game was.' But that was shortly after a group of poker players in Mount Pleasant had been busted, and tensions were running high among the hundreds, if not thousands, of people who play Texas Hold 'em here on a regular basis. But if things were bad then, players are positively paranoid now after Lowcountry law enforcement busted up a poker ring in Hanahan this month. So far, there have been nearly 200 warrants issued for 65 players. Many games have been canceled, and the ones that continue are kept quiet, the table talk filled with nervous jokes — chatter about who's going to rat them out, when the cops will come breaking down the door. 'Most people are not playing right now; it's really low-key,' said Matt, who normally plays once or twice a week. 'I'm not expecting to play anytime soon.' The majority of games being played around the Lowcountry are nothing like the Hanahan game, in which one dealer said he, like the waiters, worked for tips as guys tossed around hundreds, if not thousands, of dollars in a night. At most games, people play for a few bucks a game, risking no more than $100 or $200 a night. They're looking for a way to unwind, a chance to drink beer and insult their buddies and throw the ace-high flush in the face of a guy who's way too proud of his straight. They know what they're doing is against the law, but players interviewed by The Post and Courier — all of whom asked to be identified only by their first names or not at all — argue that it's a silly law. After all, the same law against games using cards and dice makes Monopoly, Uno and Go Fish illegal. And nobody has seen any preschoolers on a perp walk lately. 'I see prostitutes roaming the streets of North Charleston, and I've heard that recently North Charleston was voted seventh in the nation for crime,' one player said. 'So I'm wondering why these (expletive) police are spending taxpayers' money to arrest guys that just wanna play some cards. It's ridiculous and needs to be stopped.' The police say other crimes are not being ignored to track down folks committing misdemeanors, and they will not ignore complaints about poker games. Charleston County Sheriff Al Cannon does not encourage people to break the law, no matter how old it is, but said he's not going out of his way to bust up penny-ante kitchen table poker games any more than he's looking to arrest grandmothers playing Go Fish with the kids. They won't look the other way if someone complains about a game, but police do have discretion. If they get a call about a small-time game, a deputy might simply tell the players to knock it off. If a fair amount of money is at stake, the players or game organizer might get a ticket, Cannon said. And there was a fair amount of money on the table in Hanahan. Cannon likened poker-playing to drinking and driving. The law says it's OK to drink alcohol but the state doesn't allow you to have 10 drinks and get behind the wheel. 'There are limits,' he said. The game in Hanahan, Cannon said, was over the limit. 'It's an old law, but that doesn't make it any less of a law,' he said. 'And if we get a complaint concerning a game of this magnitude, we're going to investigate it and take appropriate action. Maybe in this more sophisticated crowd they don't think it's a crime, but in South Carolina it is a crime.' The poker Martin Orlando Reyes is accused of running out of his house certainly doesn't match the description of most Lowcountry home games. The stakes were higher, the players often high- profile community professionals. Although staff was not hired, one dealer, who would not give his name for fear that he might face criminal charges, said he worked for tips. On an average night, he could make between $300 and $600, maybe $1,000 on a banner night. Sometimes he played as well. 'People need a dealer, and I have quick hands and can read cards quickly,' he said. 'I'm able to stay up for a lot of hours and I don't have to go to the bathroom often. I keep the games moving.' He said servers brought food and drinks around, and they too worked for tips. If the house took a cut, it was to cover expenses, not to make money. The people involved were doctors, lawyers and other professionals, the dealer says. Some of the others were teachers, real estate agents, even a solicitor. The dealer says these were people who already had money and did this to blow off steam. 'No one got rich off this,' he said. 'No one supported a lifestyle on this.' And some arrested in the sting say that's where Reyes' game most closely resembles the average kitchen table poker game in Charleston: Nobody's gambling to make a living; it's just recreation. 'If you want, you can find a game just about any night of the week,' said another local man, who plays at least once a week. 'For the most part, guys buy in between $80 to $200, give or take. Which means, on a good night, if you get lucky, you might walk away a couple hundred dollars in the plus. ... This is just a game of fun. The money is just a way for us to keep score.' Ben, a local young professional, says he and his friends used to play for quarters in the dorms at College of Charleston. He's still playing, not too worried about the possibility of being busted. 'I only play live games about 3 to 4 times per month, and the games I play in are not as big as the one who got busted recently,' he said. A fair number of folks feel the same way. 'We play with the windows open, blinds up,' said Teresa, another local player. 'We don't feel like we're big-time enough to be worried.' But others feel like it's best to just cool it for a while. Matt said several of the people who have warrants out against them are folks he used to play with. He said some of his friends have jokingly asked why he wasn't named, as if he had turned them in. In truth, Matt is a little surprised he wasn't named. The mystery behind how the police got the names of the poker players is one of the more popular topics at tables these days. In poker, there's a term called 'pot odds,' the complex mathematical formula that dictates whether you should call a bet. You weigh the odds of making a good hand against the payoff you are getting on your money — in other words, a $10 bet into a $100 pot is 10-to-1 odds. If the odds of making your hand are better than 10-to-1, that's a good bet. Right now, people are deciding the pot odds of playing poker in the Lowcountry are not worth taking the chance. Across the city, the cards are growing cold. Reach Brian Hicks at 937-5561 or bhicks@postandcourier.com. Reach Glenn Smith at 937-5556 or gsmith@postandcourier.com. |
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Comments
This article has 16 comment(s)
Posted by bubbbie on April 13, 2008 at 1:46 a.m. (Suggest removal)
So if I have a yatzee tournament and the guys get a little out of hand or word spreads that my yatzee tourney is the shiznits and 30 guys show up for the next one Big Al Cannon is going to come in with his hooded goonies and arrest us? That's a great law.
Pimps and ho's, crack dealers and meth cookers rejoice, we are going to yatzee the cops time up and help you grow your enterprises!
PS- I'm sorry, I know this posting is as stupid as this law is!
Posted by shesson on April 13, 2008 at 2:08 a.m. (Suggest removal)
Al Cannon is not going to bust up penny-ante games yet he recently compared the seriousness of the gambling law to murder laws in an interview. If I murder someone with a knife is it less illegal than shooting them?
Al Cannon says that police have discretion. So they can decide just how illegal an illegal act is and handle it accordingly? Sounds like selective discrimination to me. The higher stake players can pay the hefty fines, thus increasing revenue. The poorer people aren't worth the time to enforce the law with.
Al Cannon likens poker to drinking and driving saying that you can't have 10 drinks and get behind the wheel, there are limits. Yes, AL, and those limits are clearly stated in the law, not left to the discretion of an average citizen with 3 months of police acadamy under his belt. Brilliant Al!
In recent articles it was said that dealers were making $1300 a night. This was alleged by authorities and portrayed as concrete numbers, (probably given by the underground dealers union as prevailing wages for a skilled journeyman of poker). Now, having a real live participant to interview, the top mark is $1000 with $300-$600 being the norm. Go figure. Not much of a bust if all the figures are really half of what is being said by the police. It might actually fall under that discretionary window of being recreational. Well I geuss that depends who's on duty.
Posted by gencon1 on April 13, 2008 at 8:06 a.m. (Suggest removal)
Total hypocrisy! The reason most given why gambling is illegal is that it unfairly exploits the poor. These businessmen were not being exploited in any way. This was chump change to them.
The state outlaws this type of gambling yet promotes the lottery, which exploits the poor more than any form of gambling known.
You can stand in line at any convenience store on a Friday afternoon and see some poor guy ahead of you trying to choose “the lucky lottery ticket”, fervently hoping to strike it rich. This poor guy is probably using money that is desperately needed for basic necessities.
The poker players on the other hand, have plenty of disposable income and these poker games are merely a form of recreation.
You tell me which form of gambling should be prosecuted. We need to change the laws about gambling. This is a silly waste of time, much like prohibition. I understand that gambling is illegal in our stone-age state of SC, but so are a lot of intimate things that go on in peoples private bedrooms. I wonder when Al is going to start busting into married peoples’ private homes to arrest them for sodomy?
By the way, what are the cops going to do with the money they confiscated? Maybe that’s the motive for the bust. If you catch a murderer, he usually doesn’t have any money to confiscate, but bust a poker game and you can buy a new radar equipped squad car.
Posted by Cid95 on April 13, 2008 at 8:53 a.m. (Suggest removal)
All that is true, but the law is the law. So - the law needs to be amended! Ignoring one law, which is indeed obviously stupid, dilutes the force of other laws. This needs to be a priority in the legislature. Let's get these cops doing something useful.
Posted by moonpie on April 13, 2008 at 9:03 a.m. (Suggest removal)
"'For the most part, guys buy in between $80 to $200, give or take. Which means, on a good night, if you get lucky, you might walk away a couple hundred dollars in the plus. ... This is just a game of fun."
YEAH ITS ALL FUN AND GAMES UNTIL SOMEONE GETS HURT! DRINKING AND GAMBELING, SOUNDS LIKE THE OLD WEST. WE KNOW HOW THAT SOMETIMES TURNED OUT. ALL OF YOU CRYING FOUL WOULD BE SCREAMING AT THE TOP OF YOUR LUNGS FOR OLE AL'S HEAD IF SOMEONE HAD BEEN STABBED OR SHOT OVER A BAD HAND. CAN'T HAVE IT BOTH WAYS.
Posted by ChrisPia on April 13, 2008 at 9:19 a.m. (Suggest removal)
Nash to speak at Summerville High School
The Summerville High School PTSA will present an evening with Sheriff Ray Nash. The topic of discussion will be two-fold: First, drugs in the lives of teens, what to look for, what is the newest drug of choice, and what is going on with drugs in our local area. Second, Nash will talk about guns in school and what is being done in our community to make us more aware.
This very informative meeting will take place Monday, April 14th at 7 p.m. in the SHS Media Center. Refreshments will be served.
Posted by willx45x on April 13, 2008 at 10:28 a.m. (Suggest removal)
It's an outrage that normal, every-day folks who enjoy playing poker are now having their lives and chosen hobby infringed upon by the criminals that we call government and police! Politicians, elected officials and many police officers are the real criminals on our streets. A good start would be rounding those who have violated the public trust up and throwing them underneath the jail. I trust the hoods in North Charleston more than I trust our local politicians and law enforcement officials.
Posted by nchar on April 13, 2008 at 10:48 a.m. (Suggest removal)
From Tuesday's story, in response to Mr. Peper saying that the law needs to be changed:
That may be. But Charleston County Sheriff Al Cannon said it's still the law and he has a duty to enforce it. Area police have raided other games in the past, including a 2006 poker tournament in Mount Pleasant that netted 18 arrests. "It may be an old law," Cannon said. "But so is murder."
Today:
Charleston County Sheriff Al Cannon does not encourage people to break the law, no matter how old it is, but said he's not going out of his way to bust up penny-ante kitchen table poker games any more than he's looking to arrest grandmothers playing Go Fish with the kids.
They won't look the other way if someone complains about a game, but police do have discretion. If they get a call about a small-time game, a deputy might simply tell the players to knock it off. If a fair amount of money is at stake, the players or game organizer might get a ticket, Cannon said.
That is quite a change on his stance, public opinion is a bitch.
Posted by JIM4686 on April 13, 2008 at 12:35 p.m. (Suggest removal)
I have to ask 1 thing. The undercover officer's that was playing was they also charge.
Posted by abitskeptical on April 13, 2008 at 1:15 p.m. (Suggest removal)
Al's continuing comments blow a hole in the theory that selective enforcement & effective prioritizing are not a problem in the law enforcement agencies.
The "law is the law", ...but...we have discretion(on who when where why & how we will enforce it).
Did someone mention double speak? Did someone mention spin?
Posted by Smart_Enough_2_Know_Better on April 13, 2008 at 1:29 p.m. (Suggest removal)
I agree that for the state to run an organized lottery but then to try and prevent organized gambling is hypocrisy. I also believe in letting the “a fool and his money are soon parted” proverb play out and don’t think the state should interfere and “protect” people from their own stupidity. My only concern is with the people that waste their money and need welfare to cover their stupidity, leaving the taxpayer to subsidize poor judgment. But legalized gambling or not, money is still wasted on/through stupidity and we foot the bill. So why not legalize gambling and tax it? Yes, I apply the same argument to illegal drugs. Lower my overall tax bill by turning the bad- that will go on regardless of legal status- into something positive.
Posted by UrGatorbait on April 13, 2008 at 1:31 p.m. (Suggest removal)
If they can tax it you will be safe. I see moonie is leading the drama charge today. OMG! OMG! poker is being played.
Posted by LI58 on April 13, 2008 at 2:50 p.m. (Suggest removal)
Maybe I could see the Charleston County Sheriff's Office spending the man hours and money on this silly investigation if there weren't so many other more important issues they could be investigating such as illegal aliens, drug dealers, murderers and teen drinking!
Posted by PluffMudFiddler on April 13, 2008 at 8:44 p.m. (Suggest removal)
I tend to agree this particular gambling operation was flagrantly and obviously violating the law and as such bet one too many times and lost. However neighborhood poker games between friends and the like should not be subject to the same scrutiny. I will give you a comparison. Many people have Superbowl Parties around their big screen TV's and bet on their favorite teams, however if you rent a movie theatre and have gambling and the like that might stick out like a sore thumb. Work to change the law but be intelligent in the interim.
Posted by cricket420 on April 14, 2008 at 8:16 a.m. (Suggest removal)
Since dice games are also illegal, does this mean I shouldn't be playing bunko?
Posted by sadjamesislandgirl on April 14, 2008 at 11:46 a.m. (Suggest removal)
I think the media is spending to much time on this so called gambling ring. I think they need to focus on the REAL CRIMMINALS. I think that we have wasted alot of money invesagating a so called gambling ring rather than finding the HARD Crimminals that are walking our streets.