Posted by nickiegarbeil on September 20, 2007 at 1 a.m. (Suggest removal)

An admission of wrongdoing by Gallant???? Sure sounded like one to me...Most of us would be happy to see RT on Administrative leave pending the investigations, THEN can his tail!

Hooray for Parotta,Yow,Fishburn,Lowry...I dub thee the Fantastic 4! Way to speak out...

As long as Riley is still Mayor, RT still has a job...guess that tells us where he stands...and before an election too! Not the brightest bulb in the box is he?

Posted by Harpo on September 20, 2007 at 2:53 a.m. (Suggest removal)

I hope to see both Pete and Repete leave city service
after the November elections. How this mayor can ignore
the growing hue and cry for the fire chief's ouster is
indicative of this man's state of denial as well as his
priorities. Joe Riley's pride comes before the welfare
of this city; he won't admit that he placed the wrong
man into that position.

Each day more people swell the ranks of the disappointed
in calling for Thomas' dismissal. This dike has to break
sooner or later; I'm betting on admin leave as an
interim action so he can wait and see if that'll hold
until after November.

Posted by hotrod2007 on September 20, 2007 at 3:46 a.m. (Suggest removal)

The mayor has drawn the line in the sand, "He will continue to serve our city for as long as I am mayor and as long as he continues to do the outstanding job he has been doing." This is a perfect example of the mayor's elitist views. He doesn't care about the Charleston 9 or the 100 represented by the union.

I would hope the unions would rise up and "HONOR" there fallen brothers with protest to make our political leaders respond to the people. The Charleston FF’s are some of the bravest of them all. These men are struggling to remain quiet and only able to do so for the benefit of their families. Kudos Michael Parrotta, president of the South Carolina Professional Firefighters Association. In my lifetime, it was only because of the UNIONs that anything has been done for the working people. Mr. Parrotta, take the lead, start organizing, the Charleston FF's need your support more than ever. Make the career politician flip-flop because he can't operate without the one man who was directly responsible for ensuring the FF’s were prepared. If and when you do, I can assure you other UNIONs would follow.

It is truly amazing how South Carolina elitist politicians has been able to hoodwink the working poor (whites and blacks) while catering to the rich and very rich. I’m a native Charlestonian and I would like to know the logic behind building thousand of houses the citizens can’t afford? I guess it for the weekend warriors / telecommuters who work remotely and make enough dollars in our community to purchase / flip those houses.

Again, the mayor has clearly stated, he backs RUSTY THOMAS (despite his incompetence), not the firefighters. Today, anyone who doesn’t own a computer, as previously posted here, should be in school. Soon the investigative team will submit its report of changes (policy & procedures) already made or forthcoming. The majority of the working voters (whites) will accept his elitist views and reelect the arrogant dictator.

May god bless the firefighters and the families of the Charleston 9.

Posted by Paul on September 20, 2007 at 4:58 a.m. (Suggest removal)

Both Riley and Thomas should resign.

Hopefully the voters will remove Riley and then Thomas should be gone soon thereafter.

Posted by Boosterhose on September 20, 2007 at 5:04 a.m. (Suggest removal)

Chief Thomas has stated numerous times in front of several fire companies that "Nothing has changed." How can this man be dedicated to upgrading the training in his department?
In my opinion he thinks "The Men" aren't bright enough to deal with these changes. This is a direct reflection of what his father thinks about the people in the department. RT Sr. thoght that column mounted dimmers would confuse the men. He had a dimmer installed on the floor to eliminate this "confusion". Never mind that all modern personal vehicles have dimmer switches for the headlights on the turn signal lever.
This is the type of thinking frontlining the safety changes being made to CFD. Apparently Joe Riley is quite happy with this type of leadership. As long as he has somebody in the position that he can control, all is well. If he is forced to oust Rusty look for him to put in another under educated yesman. Let's maintain the status quo [sarcasm].
Wake up Charleston.

Posted by Rongodzilla on September 20, 2007 at 5:42 a.m. (Suggest removal)

Charleston WAKE UP. Riley and his lame political appointees do nothing but hold this city back. Look at that pathetic excuse for a transit system we have called CARTA run by another piece of crap Riley appointee. Riley sucks!!! Come November vote this lame ass excuse for a mayor out of office. This city needs new leadership and it needs it now.

Posted by poorboy on September 20, 2007 at 6:13 a.m. (Suggest removal)

That's great who you gonna vote in the mayors office? Surely not this Gregorie dude?! He's a joke! Anyone that would allign themselfs with Kwadjo cannot be taken seriously. Sorry Charleston, you keep electing him sounds like your stuck with him!

Posted by exorcist_pencocky on September 20, 2007 at 6:13 a.m. (Suggest removal)

The mayor of the city of charleston, joseph p. riley, jr. has drawn a definable line in the sand against the good citizens of the city of charleston.

It is time for the good citizens to realize this man thinks himself "God Almighty" over you and your city.

When you reelect him this November, for his last term, he and his mover and shaker friends will have no restrictions on what they do with your taxes and to you, via new city laws. Once in, you can't remove him.

All citizens need to look at whats happening, make sure you are registered to vote and "VOTE".

You have been warned.

I have been calling for his and his upper fire department management to resign, now its up to you to stop his madness in its tracks and "FIRE" him in November.

Posted by mggoose2000 on September 20, 2007 at 6:34 a.m. (Suggest removal)

It would seem, from all the rhetoric in these blogs, that everyone commenting has known that the CFD was being run by an incompetent commander, that the Mayor is inept and loyal to his people to a fault. That said, I'd say all of you that profess to have known this and have stood by with your mouths shut, until 9 men lost their lives, are just as guilty as the ones who's necks you cry out for.

Change, especially in humans, is completely up to the individual that needs to change. Most of us follow the same routine every day and would get upset if something or someone caused us to have to do it differently. So, RT didn't have the vision or the initiative to make the changes everyone is prescribing; you want to bring in an expert with all the qualifications you're saying RT doesn't have and put him in charge? Seems from all of your squawking, this person would be like a "Chicken in a hot skillet", dancing for all of you to keep his job.

Perfect people crying out for a perfect world! How sad we so soon forget that we are not perfect and that people make mistakes, sometimes, tragic ones. The sad part of all tragedies is that the living have to keep on living and remembering and dealing with the TRAGEDY! I believe it is a mistake to condemn this man or any one man for these men's deaths. Everyone that knew these conditions existed and did nothing, are at fault. Failure is a part of human life, something we must all deal with; Why can't we forgive and move on? Ruining a man's career is not the answer here folks.

I know; why don't we just hang him? He'd be dead and that will bring back the 9 that died that tragic day, right? It will put salve on everyones hurt and satify everyones lust for punishing the guilty party, right?

Enough is enough! Let the commision that is assessing the CFD complete their task. Wait and see what they say; let the Mayor outline his plans and then, if the CFD doesn't move into the 21st century, we can call for someone to step down and elect another Mayor that will have the vision to do what is right.

Posted by Mayor on September 20, 2007 at 6:36 a.m. (Suggest removal)

If Rusty can't feel the heat, he needs to put his polyester shirt back on. How can you stay here?

Posted by jmw29410 on September 20, 2007 at 7:13 a.m. (Suggest removal)

I know from experience that the City is like most big businesses and covers its butt by designating a scapegoat to take the fall. Riley's support of Rusty Thomas is an exception to this policy. Dumping Rusty will not change the facts of the tragedy. Keeping an experienced chief who is committed to making change is important. I am in no way a Joe Riley fan but I believe that dumping Rusty Thomas is NOT the way to do it. I point out that Rusty has not resigned and run to a hiding place. He's hanging in there and trying to do what's right to improve the department in spite of the crap he is catching. That says a lot about the man.

Posted by dog on September 20, 2007 at 7:42 a.m. (Suggest removal)

Changes need to be made.

Posted by Boosterhose on September 20, 2007 at 7:45 a.m. (Suggest removal)

Did you people read my post?
Rusty opposes change!
He has stated so in front of numerous people! His battle cry is nothing's changed!
If someone dies in your command that "leader" should step up and address the problem. Don't come out and agree with him by telling everybody to stick their heads back in the sand. Change needs to be embraced. Memos are just a way to avoid prosecution in the event of an incident.
Where is the training to upgrade this department?
What equipment has been purchased or ordered to upgrade the level of protection for our citizens and employees?
What type of new bodyguard was ordered to enable our firemen to perform their hazardous duties in a way less stressful and safer for their physical well being?
Why isn't there AC on the apparattus so our firefighters aren't already overheated when they arrive at the fire?[This is standard on apparattus where more money is paid to remove it]
They can't answer these questions because A- they haven't done anything about it, or B- they don't want anybody to know.

Wake up Charleston!

Posted by Citadel2005roby on September 20, 2007 at 8:08 a.m. (Suggest removal)

Are you kidding me? You people are so cynical to actually believe this Parrotta guy? He is not even from Charleston and we are going to actually let him dip his hands into Charleston? Thats the problem with Charleston, we let too many people have influence here and people actually listen to it. Yes, Riley needs to go...but, he is here and you have to put up with him. You voted him in AGAIN. As for Rusty...a change in the Mayors office might bring great change in the fire department with Rusty in command. Rusty is one of the most sincere persons you will have ever met. As for Gregorie...nothing more needed to say. We don't have much to chose from for the next election.

Posted by kma71 on September 20, 2007 at 8:11 a.m. (Suggest removal)

I agree with you jmw. Rusty could have run and hidden, but he didn't. And I wonder how many lives this dept has saved in the years under Rusty's leadership. But yes it is time for some changes. Hopefully Rusty will embrace those changes and move forward.

Posted by icbmman on September 20, 2007 at 8:33 a.m. (Suggest removal)

Cid2005 and mmgoose, you echo my sentiments exactly. Changes need to be made, and if Chief Thomas is not going to make necessary changes, then let the commission finish its recommendations, which will probably include firing him. As for the mayor's office, you will not be able to vote Riley out as long as you have mediocre candidates. It's also interesting to see that Gregorie, the only other viable candidate, is aligned with Kwadjo Campbell (again, WTF?!?!). Yeah, great choice besides Riley...excuse me while I try to control my laughter.

Posted by Boosterhose on September 20, 2007 at 8:42 a.m. (Suggest removal)

Kwadjo just didn't have the tact to get his without getting caught. In my opinion, if you've held an office for an extended duration then you're probably the biggest taker of cookies from the jar. Kwadjo just didn't do his homework or pay his dues.
Of course the good ole boys probably wouldn't have thrown him the ball and let him play either.

Posted by oldcap on September 20, 2007 at 8:48 a.m. (Suggest removal)

I'm in Charleston, in the department and Rusty has to go. He has lost the firefighters. No one believes him anymore.

Posted by Harpo on September 20, 2007 at 9:16 a.m. (Suggest removal)

Rusty Thomas never had the option to run and hide;
he's employed currently as the fire chief. He has
kept a low profile lately which is as much running
and hiding as he can possibly do .. so let's not
paint him as a stoic, brave, and progressive leader,
OK? I haven't read about him furthering his own
training or even learning computers since the fire.

He has been defiant; let's not confuse that with
courage or perseverance, OK? His daddy's covering
his behind.

Posted by LeeWalton9 on September 20, 2007 at 9:21 a.m. (Suggest removal)

75% of the comments here are from the same people saying the same thing they have said from the start--all negative, all without reading what is going on and all with the one objective of hating Riley. Well, you are not paying attention or being open to the facts: changes are being made and they are being made by the people who are the most capable of making them quickly and making them stick. Every organization and individual needs to improve and independent study is good. Piringer has said it best: they are making changes as reported in a competent and professional manner, which is how I describe both the CFD and its chief. MKA71 makes a good point: how many lives have been saved by the CFD? And I ask all of you--even those who have their own hatred and anger--who would you rather fight a fire at your home--Roger Yow or Rusty Thomas?

Posted by jcaulkins on September 20, 2007 at 9:23 a.m. (Suggest removal)

The decisions by Chief Thomas and Gavin on the fireground June 18 directly led to the death of nine experienced career fire fighters in what was by all accounts a routine structure fire. Both chiefs should be relieved of command and a separate criminal investigation begun to determine whether their actions constitute negligent homicide. This has nothing to do with their past behavior or whether they are decent people. They are directly accountable for their actions.

I am a Charleston city resident and voter.

Posted by burton on September 20, 2007 at 9:25 a.m. (Suggest removal)

King Riley has issued his decree and his subjects in Charleston--city council and the voters--will fall in line and obey his decree! What you going to do? Vote him out? Yea, right! You been voting him back in office for 32 years so what message do you think that sends to the King? Kiss the ring like you been doing for the past 32 years!

Anyone that has taken any leadership classes knows that this is a classic case of a lame duck Chief and also the Peter Principle. How can the Chief effectively lead his dept when he has lost the faith and confidence of his people? You want change in the dept but you keep the person in power that is resistant to change and the creator of the current climate! Wow King Riley! Is anyone responsible or accountable for nine men dying at one time? King Riley knows that you will vote him back in no matter what so this is why he has given his full arrogrant support to the Chief.

Voters of Charleston, when are you going to look in the mirror? Mercy!

Posted by Citadel2005 on September 20, 2007 at 9:29 a.m. (Suggest removal)

Harpo you say this and you don't even give him nor the department the credit for how many lives they have collectively saved. It's sad that it takes an event like this for people to react is such a way that you bring someone else down. When was he defiant? Courage takes pride and pride takes preserverance.

Posted by suec on September 20, 2007 at 9:34 a.m. (Suggest removal)

I have a hard time believing a Union leader is looking out for anyone besides the Union and his hip pocket.

How do the Charleston firefighters feel about Rusty?

Posted by bickleseagrave on September 20, 2007 at 9:49 a.m. (Suggest removal)

Quote LeeWalton9 "who would you rather fight a fire at your home--Roger Yow or Rusty Thomas?"

The answer is pretty clear, Mr Yow of course, he would be pulling up with 1 3/4 attack lines, not booster hoses, he would be laying a large diameter supply line to make sure he had an adequate water supply. I am sure he would be bringing in the thermal imaging camera to search for me, not leaving it on the seat of the ladder truck. Of course there would also be a proper incident command system so all firefighters were accounted for while trying to rescue me.
The list is almost endless, a good old boy using 1970's technology and methods is not going to get the job done safely. open your eyes!!!

Posted by Kytten104 on September 20, 2007 at 9:50 a.m. (Suggest removal)

Ok, you know what, every time some tragedy happens in any place, we look for someone to blame. Here's a great idea, why don't we wait to see what the results of the investigation are, and if Rusty is to be blamed, then let's let the CFD make the decision. For once let's let the people who actually risk their lives doing this courageous job chose whether or not they think that this is the right person to lead them. This way, by pleasing the majority, not only will you raise morale but it will improve the faith in city's decisions.

Posted by nitelite on September 20, 2007 at 9:55 a.m. (Suggest removal)

icbmman you need to quit with your misleading facts...you and poorboy...There is no aligning with Gregorie and Campbell, you read a post and courier article that was full of riley spin and ran with it.. did you do any homework after the fact? Have you seen anymore from the post and courier since then on the subject? did you notice the quotes from riley's campaign mangager in the article? Apparently not, because if you had you would have saw it for what it is worth. now if you wanna talk about factual associations, wasn't it riley who allowed dan molony to bilk the city out of over HALF A MILLION DOLLARS?!?! and that's all that they came public with, it's probably more than that. Don Cameron another Riley staffer, has already been caught with the misuse of city funds as it relates to peersonal expense charges on a city account. Now with the mayor being in position for 32 years, just how much other improprieties might have taken place under his leadership?

summary..... Joemustgo

http://Youtube.com/watch?v=umfO8upIIBo

Posted by CFDGOODOLDBOY on September 20, 2007 at 10:10 a.m. (Suggest removal)

Yea! The good old boy system lives! Riley is god! Rusty rules! Nothing has changed!
Words cover up the truth, action shows us. Nothing will change as long as these clowns are allowed to continue in their positions.
They know that the system is on their side. WHO WILL COME OUT ON TOP? Well the way it is playing out it will be the good old boys!

Posted by chrissybaggett on September 20, 2007 at 10:14 a.m. (Suggest removal)

Hello fellow readers; I am looking in from the outside and wondering why it is that the "good ol boy system" is still in play here! Men died and at the very least those two should be on administative leave! After listening to the communication tapes I was surprised that noone was fired! I realize that their was mass confusion, but I am unsure why. Those men that went to that fire call, were all trained to handle the situation in a calm and organized manor. Why did they not? They were responsible for all of those deaths! It was not simply an unfortunate accident that I have read and heard a blue million times. Where is the accountability here?

Posted by Boosterhose on September 20, 2007 at 10:16 a.m. (Suggest removal)

In my opinion and others with Rusty it's all about control. He has stooges who's job it is to follow and see if there's any dirt to report back to the top. Never mind what thier getting paid to do. If Rusty had spent more time in his office researching new procedures and doing actual management tasks things would have come out a lot different. Instead he thinks crawling under the apparattus looking for dirt is his job[this goes back to his father who was a mechanic and didn't want to get dirty when he had to crawl under apparattus].
The first chief he made as department head was his brother. There were lots of guys with more experience and abilities who should have been promoted ahead of Tommy.
He has no faith in the people under him. The first thing he does at a fire scene is take over. A lot of times he isn't even at the scene.
To understand the position of unions in the state of SC you have to realize that this a right to work state. This effectively removes any collective bargaining from the employees in the union. So basically Roger represents about half the members of the department and is a go between to speak out for people who fear Rusty's retribution. This retribution has in the past taken the form of demotions[he'll drill you til you make a mistake and claim he's protecting the men], transfer to a less desirable station, assign troublesome members to crews to make your job harder, or special assignments[pick up trash, cut grass at highschool, even clean up the market on weekends so the city doesn't have to pay the people who's job it actually is].
In person he can be quite charming. If you were to meet him in a social setting it's very easy to see why people consider him a nice guy.
With proper training and background he would have made a great politician. Department Chief is a political job. However the only credentials he has are OJT[on the job training] and High school diploma.

Posted by nickiegarbeil on September 20, 2007 at 10:17 a.m. (Suggest removal)

Lee Walton,

You know...I would rather have Roger Yow leading the troops to fight the fire...at least he KNOWS what the national standards are and would follow them! HE would ALSO ensure his men had the safety equipment they needed AND the all important REHAB for them to maintain their health at a heavy scene...

Funny the LeeWalton on THIS board doesn't reflect the same attitude as the LeeWalton on the CharlestonWatch site...guess the names are coincidence...

Even staunch supporters of Riley in the past are seething...People need to wake up and smell the road kill.

Posted by vesta on September 20, 2007 at 10:22 a.m. (Suggest removal)

jmw29410: Thomas is an "experienced chief who is committed to making change"??? I don't think so. Look at previous posts which indicate what little training this "experienced chief" has had. Yes, I know, you will say, "Well gee, he has been a ff all his life." The problem is he hasn't studied new procedures that dictate changes in the fire ground. You just can't continue to "run the horses" to the fire.

citadel2005roby: "He (Riley) is here and you have to put up with him." He may get re-elected, but citizens can petition for a city council run government which will take away the king's power.

icbmman: The problem is, the panel only MAKES recommendations. They (1) do not enforce them or (2) say specifically who should fill positions (such as an "outsider"). I would guess the panel thought that the chief and mayor are intelligent enough to understand their recommendations. Apparently not. The two positions they "recommended" were filled from within and by individuals who also were not properly trained.

LeeWalton9 and mggoose2000: read the posts from the ffs---changes are NOT being made. Even the panel admits it will take a VERY long time for these changes to be made, but the beginning is to start making changes.

To all of the above: the fact that Charleston did not lose a ff in a LODD since 1965 is a very big miracle and not due to the CFD's proficiency in ff techniques.

Posted by nickiegarbeil on September 20, 2007 at 10:22 a.m. (Suggest removal)

Kytten...look closely...there are several CFD firefighters in this forum telling you what they think...then read the other stories and they tell you there as well...they want RT gone..

And for those that say no one complained before the fire...not true...it fell on deaf ears, both in the City government AND the citizens of Charleston..Now there are 9 dead men and there is no way to ignore the failures.

Posted by nickiegarbeil on September 20, 2007 at 10:34 a.m. (Suggest removal)

Boosterhose,

I'm sorry did you say CFF PICK UP TRASH? MOW GRASS at the High School? Please tell us more!

Posted by Kytten104 on September 20, 2007 at 10:35 a.m. (Suggest removal)

I'm saying you should keep him NICKIEGARBEIL- what i'm saying is as outsiders, we may not really know what's going on the department, everything's heresay until the investigation is complete. That's not to say that Rusty didn't make mistakes, but I think it should be up to the Firefighters, and if they want him gone, then so be it.

Posted by Kytten104 on September 20, 2007 at 10:37 a.m. (Suggest removal)

correction: I'm NOT saying you should keep him. sorry

Posted by Fire_Inspector on September 20, 2007 at 10:38 a.m. (Suggest removal)

"Why isn't there AC on the apparattus so our firefighters aren't already overheated when they arrive at the fire?[This is standard on apparattus where more money is paid to remove it]"

1) Given how few runs the CFD makes and the limited distances they have to travel this is BS! Yeah it would be nice and it is stupid to DELETE it, but hyperbole here isn't helpful. I know VFDs that make more runs annually...

2) That said, I suspect the reason the CFD hasn't bought NEW appartatus with AC is that the men on companies without it would all cry like toddlers who didn't get the same toy as the other kids.

3) And that said, to heck with the whiners (union and Rusty Sr.). buy all new apparatus with AC and Doors. Retrofit doors on ALL apparatus (old and new) as required. And retrofit AC on all apparatus scheduled to be on FIRST LINE service for more than 5 years. Suck it up (both the cost whiners and guys stuck with older trucks).

4) Joe will keep Rusty for the same reason he kept greenberg. As soon as he fires him the question then becomes "why did it take you so long?" as opposed to how can you be so loyal??? Personally, I think Joe is a GENIUS for turning the debate into one on his loyalty, instead of his and Rustys incompetence...

5) As for the union wanting Rusty gone, what else is new?
WHat are they going to DO about it? Strike (yeah that would get the locals on their side)? I personally suggest "working to the rule" which would involve among other things STOP falsifying training reports. Put in for differential if you are working at a higher rank. The national office of their union should have some people that coudl give them good advice here...

6) Also, if the union REALLY cared, it get someone from the national headquarters that is ON the NFPA committees that are of concern (I'd bet there is a union rep on there) to come down and look at the issues. WRITE a report.

7) I have a LOT of respect for the team of outside chiefs looking at the whole FD. BUT, they ultimately answer to Joe. And if they slam Joe too hard it might be a tad difficult for them to get that next "awarded by the mayor" job at $100 an hour...

Posted by charleytowngirl on September 20, 2007 at 10:40 a.m. (Suggest removal)

Mggoose2000: Just curious...would you feel different if this tragedy had occurred in your husband's department?

LeeWalton9: Are you the same Lee Walton that writes for Charlestonwatch.com? If so, your comments in this form stand in stark contrast to the articles written in Charleston Watch.

Citadel2005: Arrogant would be a good word to describe Rusty's attitude immediately after the fire. I say this because of the comments he made about having his own incident command system and not using prescribed national standards. I would think that someone that just lost "9 of
his best friends" would want to immediately analyze the mistakes, admit that mistakes were made and move forward on his own to try to prevent another tragedy of these proportions. I also truly feel that if Rusty had humbled himself and admitted that there had been mistakes and made the move to correct them BEFORE a panel had to point them out that it may have derailed some of then anger felt by FF's and citizens. Sadly, he did not do that.

suec: read some of comments on the other P&C stories and you will easily spot the comments by CFD FF's. Heck, click on Boosterhose's name above and read his posts. Then you will see the the Mayor is trying to convince the citizens that all is well. According to alot of fire dept. members,
all is not well.

Posted by intheknow on September 20, 2007 at 10:46 a.m. (Suggest removal)

Kytten 104,
Did you miss the part of the article where the panel was not there to recommend replacing positions in the CFD? Did you miss the part where the mayor said as long as I am the mayor he's the chief? I am almost willing to bet those reports won't be out before the election.( niosh,atf, etc.)

Posted by ewilliams6461 on September 20, 2007 at 10:46 a.m. (Suggest removal)

We buried my father on 911 which is a retired Fire Chief from Charleston. I feel that Chief Rusty did no diffrent then my Father would ahve done in the same situation. My heart goes out to him everyday because this man has taken in alot and has also lost 8 of his fellows which is like his Family. My Dad's life was his Family and The Fire Department and I feel like Chief Rusty's is the same. I think that we should be supporting this man instead of all this being negative and ugly. My heart goes out to each Family that lost a Loved one. I think of Chief Rusty like I think of my Dad - A Role Model. I feel that at the time of this Traggic, Chief Rusty did no diffrent then any of us would'nt have done in a emergency like this. I know that if my Father was hear today he would stand behind Chief Rusty through Thick and Thin and This is what he needs SUPPORT. Not people being ugly and saying mean things or pointing the finger. You never know this could have happen to any of us. All I can say is everyone remember one thing WE ALL HAVE TO ANSWER TO ONE PERSON AND THATS THE MAN UPSTAIRS AND HE DOES NOT LIKE UGLY. Chief Rusty theres not a day that goes by that I dont say a prayer for you and I will stand beside you and My Dad is to in heaven. Anyone who reads this knows who my Dad is he is the only Charleston Fire Chief that was buried on 911, 4 years ago in Charleston.

Posted by bickleseagrave on September 20, 2007 at 10:50 a.m. (Suggest removal)

Quote suec "I have a hard time believing a Union leader is looking out for anyone besides the Union and his hip pocket."
Where did you ever get an idea that this is how the IAFF is run or is all about. I have been a proud IAFF member for over 30 years. I am in another jurisdiction other than South Carolina and I can't believe what I am seeing and reading about the conditions the Charleston Firefighters have to live with. Not only do they have low wages, but they are lacking in any method to address safety issues.
The firefighters in Charleston are great men, but they have not been given the up-to-date technology and equipment, thanks to a Chief who has not kept up to date.
Let me tell you, I am not an executive member, but these brother's work tirelessly on the behalf of their brothers and sisters to better our profession!!! usually with little or no remuneration.

Posted by vesta on September 20, 2007 at 11:02 a.m. (Suggest removal)

ewilliams6461: condolences on the loss of your father, a fire chief. Let me tell you about my uncle, also a former fire chief, who lives in another area, but has kept up with the Sofa Super Store fire itself and subsequent news. He is a role model to me because, after watching the news, and reading the articles, he could spot what was done incorrectly at the scene that night. My uncle was a great fire chief in his time, but he is the first person to admit that a great number of changes have been made since he retired and if he physically was able to keep up with the fire department, he would have to undergo a number of classes to get back into the world of ff which has changed so rapidly over recent years. He is a role model to me because he can admit that he, at this point in time, doesn't know everything he would need to know as a modern day ff. FFs have always had a very tenuous existence....they have literally laid down their lives on numerous occasions for people they do not know. I do not speak just about those who have rescued people from a burning building, but about every ff who answers every call. I think the Man Upstairs expects each of us to use the resources He has given us. In the case of the fire department, the person in charge should have made sure these men were properly trained, properly equipped and properly led. Again, my condolences on your loss, and my respects to your father's honor as a role model.

Posted by nickiegarbeil on September 20, 2007 at 11:19 a.m. (Suggest removal)

Kytten,

Got ya...sorry I misunderstood...I do get information from inside on several levels..that's how I know...

Posted by Zarclone on September 20, 2007 at 11:20 a.m. (Suggest removal)

the local 61 union, the state union and the IAFF big union in New York need to be more in the papers with whats wrong with the training, how much money is being spent on the training, what kind of mechanics we have to work on the trucks, also these internet certificates need to GO in the Trash..its a crock of bologna..i know how rusty got to be chief..it was a done deal between guthke, thomas sr, and riley the deal is if you make my son chief , he will save the city as much money or more so it will go back into the city coffiers..just like the units on the trucks to show you where the fire is , in a building..well there is a saying when you use those imaging units and it comes from the number 1 man and it is "if you use the unit and it breaks, then you pay for it"..i know i remenber when we coul NOT use a co2. or dry chemical extinguish,if we did the chiefs office would call you on the phone and eat your butt out for using it as they had to pay to get it refilled..this place will never change unit riley is voted out, rusty is fired and garvin is demoted or fired...

Posted by Citadel2005 on September 20, 2007 at 11:33 a.m. (Suggest removal)

Charleytowngirl: I couldn't agree with you more. A good leader would admit his mistakes and drive on. I still believe he is a great leader and can learn from this awful incident. Everyone is human and makes mistakes, some bigger ones than others. I dissagree with people who are putting the blame on RT. I was not at the scene of the fire that night but I am sure is was chaotic. I seriously doubt that RT made every call during that fire.

Posted by bcreek on September 20, 2007 at 11:38 a.m. (Suggest removal)

In the wake of this terrible tragedy, many emotions come out. To the families and loved ones of our fallen heroes, we all wish this had never happened and will never forget them.
From the beginning, calls for Rusty's resignation were sure to come. This seems to happen any time there is a tragedy, we look to make the person in charge to be responsible for something they did or did not do. Let the investigations be completed before we make such judgment.
I do know Rusty Thomas and have known him since we were boys. The facts of his character are this, you will never find a more honest, caring, hardworking, and upstanding member of our community. That goes for his whole family. To see comments posted about his father who has been retired for many years are troubling.
The Charleston Fire Department has an ISO Class One designation. That designation is not given to many departments in the US. They must be doing alot of things right.

Posted by huntress87 on September 20, 2007 at 11:51 a.m. (Suggest removal)

WHAT ABOUT A NO CONFIDENCE VOTE?

Posted by nickiegarbeil on September 20, 2007 at 12:06 p.m. (Suggest removal)

bcreek,

As discussed in MANY other forums...the ISO class 1 rating has NOTHING to do with the capabilities and practices of ANY fire department. It is an insurance rating to show the city has enough hydrants and enough fire apparatus within a specified distance..it is a misleading security, and needs to be taken in context...I would be glad to explain it to you more, if you are interested.

Posted by charleytowngirl on September 20, 2007 at 12:09 p.m. (Suggest removal)

Citadel2005: Exactly, but Rusty has not admitted publicly that mistakes were made. He could have diffused this situation if he had done so, in my opinion.

And I am in total agreement that Rusty did not make every call. Personally I think Garvin should be the first one put on admin. leave, but at the same time, Rusty is the LEADER of the department, responsible for ensuring that those below him are property educated and trained. Rusty should be on admin leave as well. Education, training and lack or nationally recommended standards of safety, equipment, IC and PAR were all missing on that tragic call.

Posted by vesta on September 20, 2007 at 12:11 p.m. (Suggest removal)

bcreek: Welcome aboard! There have been many MBs about the ISO Class One rating. To sum it up for you and others new to this board, ISO is an organization which sends reports to insurance companies. They rate fire departments based on various elements--the number of fire hydrants, the number of vehicles, the number of ffs. They are more concerned about quantity rather than quality, which means, they might look at an internet training certificate as "proper training" for both the ffs and their superiors. Insurance companies have a "bet" with both individuals who live in residences and with businesses. The insurance companies take your premiums and "bet" that you are NOT going to have a fire, hurricane, etc. ISO ratings give the insurance companies an idea of how many fire fighters will respond to a given fire, how many engines and ladder trucks will respond to a given fire, etc. The insurance companies do not necessarily care about the quality of training these individuals have who (1) command the fire scene or (2) respond to the fires. Often they take the word and paperwork of the fire department. To have a panel of experts come in, and, in a few short days, realize that the training of both the ffs and chiefs was deficient to say the least also reflects on the ISO rating methods. Again, the individual who gave the CFD a number #1 rating had never given any other department a #1 rating in the history of their career HOWEVER, this individual was going into a consulting business shortly thereafter when they retired to help other areas improve their ratings.

Please do not continue to shove this ISO rating down our throats.....we know what it does and does not mean. The chief, the mayor, some council members and others obviously do not and, I understand that a representative of the ISO will be meeting with city officials in the near future.

Posted by ThePhink on September 20, 2007 at 12:12 p.m. (Suggest removal)

Here's an idea. Maybe the Yowster can be mayor and these other 20 chat room experts can run the department. What you think?

Posted by WalkMan on September 20, 2007 at 12:19 p.m. (Suggest removal)

Phink;
I doubt it would get worse.

Posted by Citadel2005 on September 20, 2007 at 12:21 p.m. (Suggest removal)

ThePhink: This is a discussion board. Some may be experts and some may not be, but everyone has a right to their opinion. Nobody claimed to be an expert. If you have something intellectual to say, we all will be more than happy to give our rebuttal.

Posted by nickiegarbeil on September 20, 2007 at 12:24 p.m. (Suggest removal)

Phink,

There are any number of fire service experts in these message boards...both posting AND non-posting...I think that is a FANTASTIC idea...for once you made a post of substance! Shall we make a list?

Posted by trinitytim on September 20, 2007 at 12:41 p.m. (Suggest removal)

Well, I see that the mayor and the chief have put their cronies to work defending this great leader. It's time to circle the wagons.

Term limits for local politicians are looking better and better every day. Time for a change Charleston. 32 years and no one better ever appeared? Sounds like the good ole boys are going strong.

I will continue to pray for the brave Charleston fire fighters who so desperately need to have renewed faith int heir leadership and I don't think that will be possible as long as the current chief remains in power.

Shame on you Charleston voters. Stand up for your heroes.

Posted by bcreek on September 20, 2007 at 12:46 p.m. (Suggest removal)

Point taken. I do understand the ISO rating. The point here is that this department is not stuck in the Dark Ages as some would like to think.

Posted by hipchick on September 20, 2007 at 12:47 p.m. (Suggest removal)

Firing Chief Rusty is not the answer; getting rid of Mayor Riley is not the answer. Because those nine men did their jobs, went into a burning building and lost their lives, other lives were saved. Don't disgrace their sacrifice with politics and finger pointing. Maybe it's the city's fault for setting the fees beyond reach. Maybe it's the store owner's fault for not spending the extra money on a sprinkler system. Maybe it's the Union's fault for not screaming loud enough for changes.My point being, until we are standing in someone's shoes, we have no idea what we may experience. Let's give Rusty the chance he well deserves and see what positive things can come from this tragedy.

Posted by ewilliams6461 on September 20, 2007 at 12:59 p.m. (Suggest removal)

hipchick finally someone see's this like I do. Everyone stop pointing the finger and lets support Rusty and move Foraward. Give him the chance ( this could have been any of us ). This was a awfull Tragedy and it has been a emotional and tough road for Chief Rusty. Back Off people give him a chance. My brother is a Captain for the City of North Charleston and you know he has stood beside him and the fellows at this fire dept threw all of this. What the Chief and the fellow men need is support and for all this negativness to go away.

Posted by nickiegarbeil on September 20, 2007 at 1 p.m. (Suggest removal)

bcreek,

If the evidence didn't show to the contrary, none of us would be here...we do seriously know what we are talking about and what is going on..we aren't making it up..pinky swear...

hipchick, TWO St. Andrews FF made that rescue from OUTSIDE the building...and there was still time for CFD to get the men out before flashover and collapse..training would have granted the Chief's another perspective (proven effective, I might add) of HOW to fight a fire of that magnitude..their training and their men's training and lives, rests solely on the Chief's...If the Chief had responded differently in the beginning AND since the fire and initial panel findings, we wouldn't necessarily feel the way we feel now...

I respect your opinions, just think you might benefit or understand more from reading more message boards like these where the FF's are speaking out...

Respectfully

Posted by charleytowngirl on September 20, 2007 at 1:02 p.m. (Suggest removal)

Maybe the mayor and the chief should listen to what the men who risk their lives protecting OUR property and lives have to say for a change. They should be listened to as individuals AND through their union!

Posted by tiggerlady on September 20, 2007 at 1:19 p.m. (Suggest removal)

It's amazing to see when a tragedy such as this we immediately try to find somebody to blame. This is what this society has come too. I have worked very closely with Rusty Thomas for several years and I can assure you if he could switch places with the Charleston 9 he would. Rusty has done a fine job with what he was dealt with. We aren't standing in his shoes and making those sacifices as he does. Give him a chance to make the changes and see what the final report says.......but for now, move forward to make change and away from the negatively that our society so graciously feeds off of.....

Posted by bickleseagrave on September 20, 2007 at 1:25 p.m. (Suggest removal)

Quote Citadel2005 "I seriously doubt that RT made every call during that fire."

You hit the nail on the head, as the Incident Commander, RT should have made every call.

As the Incident Commander(as set out in their own SOG's) he was the top strategist. Of course he can not make every decision alone, that why there is information flowing to him and from him if the IC system works as it should. If you are not a firefighter you may not know the tems and workings of theis system, but factors such as span of control, chain of command, sector officers were not implemented here. There were obvious problems with communications and accountability, especially with off duty firefighters and neighbouring departments freelancing.

So you are right, RT did not make every call, but as INCIDENT COMMANDER he should have!! through a properly run Incident Command System, which seems to run pretty well everywhere else in North America!

Posted by nitelite on September 20, 2007 at 1:27 p.m. (Suggest removal)

hipchick,
I understand where you are coming from, Nine men died doing their job. But we can't ignore the factors that contributed to them dying, that if they were done correctly, could they still be alive? What I mean by that is, there were reccomendations on the record for several years prio to the fire. The mayor and the chief chose not to utilize these reccomendations. Some where posed by the union, and some may have been suggested by rusty to the mayor. But the fault here that is overwhelming is that our men were in that building because they operated in a organiztional climate that did not have their best interest first, which is their lives and safety. Why do I say this, because they wouldn't have been so concerned with fighting that fire from the interior of the building, to save property. Anyone who has been to the SSS prior to knows it wouldn't have taken them that long to realize that noone else was in that dwelling. Garvin must have, because he was in at one point and out the rest. So their must have been either some sort of PRESSURE, or an ORDER to fight that fire from inside. As we have learned in its aftermath, Rusty's additude is get in there and fight that fire. Now we know that it was reccomended to out department prior to this fire, to follow new osha and international guidelines as to safety, but Rusty's position was to not adopt those standards but fight fires aggressively, even if it meant compromising the safety of his men. His own statements following the fire verify this. I don't wish Rusty any ill-will but men didn't die because of a lack of sprinklers or hose size. They should have not been in the situation the were in in the first place.

There were worst fires in the history of our city, where not a live was lost.
We are hearing about the inadequacies as to our department in terms of equipment, but soon to the question of leadership.

Posted by charleytowngirl on September 20, 2007 at 1:29 p.m. (Suggest removal)

Good point, Bick

Posted by bickleseagrave on September 20, 2007 at 1:30 p.m. (Suggest removal)

Tiggerlady, unfortunately your friend Rusty, set off almost every firefighter in North America and perhaps the world when he stood up and said this is the way we do things in Charleston and we won't be changing anything.
It would have been much better if he had said, we have a devastating tragedy here, what must we do so it never happens again.
Go back through some of the previous files and read some of the quotes!!

Posted by trinitytim on September 20, 2007 at 1:33 p.m. (Suggest removal)

OSHA finds willful violations Breaking News.

Sounds like the fertizlizr's about to hit the ventilator.

Posted by nickiegarbeil on September 20, 2007 at 1:36 p.m. (Suggest removal)

Amen, Bick! I don't think some people have a clue just how many firefighters are watching and listening..and they are ANGRY...Not just nationally, INTERNATIONALLY...

Posted by bickleseagrave on September 20, 2007 at 1:42 p.m. (Suggest removal)

Quote bcreek "The point here is that this department is not stuck in the Dark Ages as some would like to think."

Well maybe not the dark ages, but definitely back in the 70's
All any firefighter has to do is take a look at the videos, pictures and listen to the comments of the CFD firefighters.

Maybe you don't know much about firefighting bcreek, but 2 1/2" supply lines, booster lines at structure fires, Thermal Cameras not used, no accountability, no Rit teams, the list goes on and on.

And polyester uniforms, do you remember polyester from the 70's?

So you bcreek may THINK they are not stuck in the old days but all the media information shows otherwise!!

Posted by bethyj on September 20, 2007 at 1:46 p.m. (Suggest removal)

There are also firemen who stand by Rusty Thomas, locally, nationally, and internationally....

Posted by bickleseagrave on September 20, 2007 at 1:52 p.m. (Suggest removal)

quote bethyj "There are also firemen who stand by Rusty Thomas, locally, nationally, and internationally"

Well bethy you also are behind the times, we are "Firefighters", that is "Brother & Sister" Firefighters, times have changed!!

"Firemen", just another anachronism from the dark ages!!

Posted by nickiegarbeil on September 20, 2007 at 2 p.m. (Suggest removal)

Since it isn't a contest, I agree there are probably those who do support them..my point is that experts everywhere are watching this and there is overwhelming opinion against the actions...it is what it is...

Posted by trinitytim on September 20, 2007 at 2:02 p.m. (Suggest removal)

Have you all seen the "Breaking News" which says that OSHA is going to fine both the CFD and the Store Owner for willful violations. Fines will be levied.

Posted by ThePhink on September 20, 2007 at 2:08 p.m. (Suggest removal)

I know this is a discussion board but from what I have witnessed is 10 or 20 posters who have nothing to say except "get rid of Riley" or "fire Rusty". I am sure there are some of those 9 that supported them both and I doubt very seriously ALL of them would be proud of the way this discussion board is more of a bash the mayor and chief chat room. This started out a discussion board but has been a chat room for many of you as of late.

What will all of you do with all the spare time after the chief and mayor are gone? Look for something else to moan and groan about?

Maybe then you guys can create a chat room "fire the mayor and chief" on AOL still have something to do.

Posted by bickleseagrave on September 20, 2007 at 2:12 p.m. (Suggest removal)

quote trinitytim " Have you all seen the "Breaking News" which says that OSHA is going to fine both the CFD and the Store Owner for willful violations. Fines will be levied."

Haven't found it yet, but it is a good thing problems have been identified.

It is only too bad that instead of fines going into Government coffers, that the equivalent money be spent on equipment and training for the CFD firefighters!

Posted by trinitytim on September 20, 2007 at 2:18 p.m. (Suggest removal)

Link to the story

http://www.charleston.net/news/2007/sep/...

Posted by Citadel2005 on September 20, 2007 at 2:23 p.m. (Suggest removal)

This just all sounds like a big witch hunt. Accept the faults move on and learn from the consequences.

Posted by trinitytim on September 20, 2007 at 2:26 p.m. (Suggest removal)

Move on with a new chief. No matter what this chief does or tries to do, he has lost the confidence of most of his department and that can not be recovered. For the good of the department, this chief should resign.

Posted by jscampb on September 20, 2007 at 2:35 p.m. (Suggest removal)

ThePhink-That is the most astute posting of all........

Posted by bickleseagrave on September 20, 2007 at 2:45 p.m. (Suggest removal)

Wow, what the heck, it appears that the 9 inside were not wearing full protective clothing(what extent?) and the department was fined for this action. This is serious, the chief is ultimitely responsible for this by away of Department Policies and SOG's and their enforcement.

All of you non firefighters who are supporting Mayor Joe and Rusty need to open your eyes.
Take a look at where the responsibility flowed recently in New York City, Baltimore and Winnipeg,Canada.

Unfortunately this Good Old Boy mentality and culture can not continue, an example must be made to educate and make aware the seriousness of these events to all Fire Department administrators.

Posted by nickiegarbeil on September 20, 2007 at 2:47 p.m. (Suggest removal)

My comments regarding Rusty and Riley are not aimed at them PERSONALLY...It is a professional viewpoint that failures occurred and lives were lost...If that is somehow a witch hunt, then someone has a serious misconception of what witch hunts really are...we aren't angry because of nothing, we are angry that standards were ignored and lives lost...9 good men...

Respectfully

Posted by kma71 on September 20, 2007 at 3:10 p.m. (Suggest removal)

Just curious, how many of you firefighters have talked to anyone about your concerns? If you know the chief was in the wrong, don't you owe it to the "Charleston 9" to speak up? I'm not a firefighter, so I was just wondering.

Posted by Citadel2005 on September 20, 2007 at 3:22 p.m. (Suggest removal)

I understand. This is my point of view. Standards leave a huge gap in accountability. I am not out pointing fingers, I don't agree or disagree with anyone on this page. We still have a job to do, we still have to be respectful with those in command, and we certainly grieve those that were lost. We signed up for the job knowing that we would be under a chief, if you have a problem with that you should find anoher job. If you were or are a FF or in any type of public service industry or any industry at that...you should understand that. You choose to follow or not...if not, move out of the way for those of us who do.

Posted by nickiegarbeil on September 20, 2007 at 3:38 p.m. (Suggest removal)

Citadel,

I understand your viewpoint..but let me put it like this...just because you signed up for a job knowing you would be under a Chief doesn't mean you signed away your rights to the safest work environment POSSIBLE..right? I am ex Navy...I signed the contract like millions of others, but I still expected my commanders to provide the safest possible environment...Now, I am a citizen and three of my family members are firefighters and law enforcement here locally...I want them...AND YOU protected to the best standards possible. When someone fails that expectation, they need to go...the most serious violations here are the "WILLFUL" disregard for safety procedures...willful is knowingly doing something that could or did result in a poor outcome...it is a matter of professional ethics...he was trusted to do a job, he didn't fulfill that expectation...it's time to relieve him of those duties and find someone who can...

Honestly I respect your views, but I have to respectfully disagree...It's ok though, we are all adults here... :)

Posted by riddiksgirl on September 20, 2007 at 3:50 p.m. (Suggest removal)

So the fire that claimed 9 lives is still burning. I'm so glad it was not my house that caught on fire, that caused 9 firefighters to lose their lives. This is just a tragedy. I would be hated for something beyond my control. Why is there a blame game going on? Why is Chief Thomas under scrutiny? Are people thinking he sent those men in to die? Or was he sending the men in to do their jobs? Thousands of soldiers have lost their lives in Iraq, so if we get rid of Thomas, lets get rid of Bush. If these men had rushed out alive, holding a rescued baby or a kitten, what would people think of Thomas then?

Posted by Citadel2005 on September 20, 2007 at 3:55 p.m. (Suggest removal)

All I am asking is for people to show a little respect. He is still in a leadership position. He still has a job to do. Not everyone has totally given up, so don't ruin it for the rest of us. If you were in the Navy, you should understand that. I don't believe somone would "WILLFULLY" put me in a position that I might lose my life.

Posted by nickiegarbeil on September 20, 2007 at 3:55 p.m. (Suggest removal)

No one thinks Rusty sent these men in to die...you need to read further..most people here are saying that he was trusted to do a job, WITHIN the law(several OSHA violations found, report out now)..he willfully disregarded his duties to provide as safe an environment through training, uniforms and command control...naturally if the men had lived, the agencies investigating this tragedy would not even be here and most of us wouldn't know they had violated standards...that isn't the case, so now there is responsibility to share between the Chief and the store owner...

Nothing personal...it was his job...National standards and OSHA standards are in place for a reason, for protection of the firefighters...not to disregard them.

Respectfully

Posted by nickiegarbeil on September 20, 2007 at 3:59 p.m. (Suggest removal)

Citadel...but he DID willfully place his men in a position that they COULD, and DID, lose their lives...think about it...he withheld training...WILLFULLY...his and theirs...they didn't know how to react in this fire when things went badly...ESPECIALLY the Chief(S)..he isn't the only one...

I would have more respect if he had come out and admitted that things might not be good and that he intended to change to prevent this from occurring again...he didn't..even now he is resisting change unless it is FORCED upon him...ask your brothers...How could OUR opinion ruin it for the rest of you if we can ensure you get an outside, highly trained fire Chief who is willing to be MUCH more progressive? That should ENHANCE your careers...

Respectfully

Posted by Citadel2005 on September 20, 2007 at 4 p.m. (Suggest removal)

Couldn't have said it better my self riddiksgirl...Thank you.

Posted by charleytowngirl on September 20, 2007 at 4:04 p.m. (Suggest removal)

Citadel2005: Being a Citadel Man or Woman I would think that you have learned by now that respect is EARNED. And unfortunately, once that is compromised it is difficult to regain. Rusty has lost the confidence and respect of many of his firefighters.

Posted by charleytowngirl on September 20, 2007 at 4:06 p.m. (Suggest removal)

Citadel2005: are you with the CFD?

Posted by Citadel2005 on September 20, 2007 at 4:12 p.m. (Suggest removal)

Your right training could be better, but it all still boils down that we have a job to do. We still have a leader that makes decsions. Whether they are good decisons or not is up to them. We should support his decisions. If you were in a position of command wouldn't you want support? He hasn't lost his job yet and if he does, then we will support a new person in command. Until then let time take it's course, it will all play out for the better in the long run.

Posted by Citadel2005 on September 20, 2007 at 4:18 p.m. (Suggest removal)

Yes, and I am proud to say that I support his every decision, if someone new comes in I will support his or her views as well. Everyone is so quick to jump on the blame wagon. We should just be patient and support our current leader. You just don't give up on someone.

Posted by SamKentov on September 20, 2007 at 4:21 p.m. (Suggest removal)

Well, Citadel2005 and riddiksgirl, you just don\\\'t get it. Bless your hearts.

Posted by Citadel2005 on September 20, 2007 at 4:22 p.m. (Suggest removal)

For now, I am sorry to say that I can no longer participate in this discussion. I just hope we can all learn from this incident and move forward. I am glad that I was able to see all of the different opinions and enjoyed very much being able to talk with you all about this very touchy subject. Thanks again!

Posted by vesta on September 20, 2007 at 4:23 p.m. (Suggest removal)

I agree with Nickie 100%. When nine men die, you don't come out, as a chief and say, "We would fight this fire tomorrow the same way." That means, you lost nine men and tomorrow you would do the same again. Rusty could have said, like most other fire chiefs with a LODD, "we are going to investigate this to make certain it doesn't happen again," at one extreme to the other extreme of taking administrative leave and let some expert come in and investigate it immediately (aside from OSHA and NIOSH). THAT would have shown concern for these nine men and their families.

If Riley had said, "We are not certain what led to the deaths of these nine men, but we are going to immediately investigate this," at one extreme to giving the chief and some of the others, including Garvin, administrative leave until it was investigated at the other extreme. THAT would have shown concern for these nine men and their families. Instead, Riley said that the CFD was the #1 ISO rating, the chief had his utmost support.

When you are in the position of a fire chief in charge of 241 men under your command you ARE responsible for them. When you are in the position of mayor of the city and in charge of hiring the fire chief you ARE responsible for that chief's actions.

Posted by charleytowngirl on September 20, 2007 at 4:27 p.m. (Suggest removal)

Stay safe Citadel 2005 and thank you for doing what you do to protect our property and lives. Please protect your own life and don't blindly follow a decision that you think may put you in harm's way.

God Bless the Charleston 9 and all the FF's in the CFD

Posted by charleytowngirl on September 20, 2007 at 4:29 p.m. (Suggest removal)

Gosh hope Rusty didn't issue another gag order memo that would prevent Citadel2005 from speaking here.

Posted by Kerry on September 20, 2007 at 4:35 p.m. (Suggest removal)

I must say that I did not see Rusty Thomas at the scene pointing a gun at anyone and ordering them to enter a burning building...

Did I miss something?

Posted by Citadel2005 on September 20, 2007 at 4:37 p.m. (Suggest removal)

As far as I can tell SamKentov you haven't even commented on the entire subject, so your comment to riddiksgirl and I mean absolutly nothing to me. Not trying to sound like a jerk or anything.

Posted by vesta on September 20, 2007 at 4:37 p.m. (Suggest removal)

Tim: check your pm.

Kerry: Study fire procedures, please.

Posted by ThePhink on September 20, 2007 at 4:47 p.m. (Suggest removal)

Citadel2005: You are right this is a discussion board. I also have a right to say what I feel at the time. If you do not want to read it you are more than welcome to move right past it. I don't believe I need your or anyone else's approval to write what I wish. You being a Citadel man (or lady) since that right was also removed from the Citadel should know I have this right. I believe it is a protected right also?

I have said all along that they should be supported until the experts turned in their findings. I believe the investigation team knows much more than many of the yahoos on this board that have personal problems with the ones in question. Some have made it clear that they did not like the chief or mayor before the fire. This leads myself and many others to believe they are using these deaths for their own agenda and that is slack. Some are genuine in they believe they are honoring the fallen 9.

I believe that you support your leaders as we do not know what they have to endure from above them. If change is recommended by the EXPERTS then you change and support the ones that fill the position. You will soon find out you can not discuss anything on this board for long if you don't agree with the other 20 experts that are on here. They only want to hear what they are saying.

Posted by juniemoon1957 on September 20, 2007 at 4:48 p.m. (Suggest removal)

POSTED: 11:41 am EDT September 20, 2007
UPDATED: 2:28 pm EDT September 20, 2007

CHARLESTON, S.C. -- State officials have handed the Charleston Fire Department four citations for violating firefighter safety.

The state Occupational Safety and Health Administration cited the department for one willful violation involving firefighter safety and three serious violations for firefighters on the scene not wearing full protective gear.

OSHA's report on the June 18 fire at the Sofa Super Store was released Thursday.

The Sofa Super Store was also cited for locked or improperly working exit and fire doors.

Nine firefighters died in the blaze.

OSHA officials say the violations will result in monetary fines.

S.C. Fire Union Leader Calls For Charleston Chief's Resignation

The head of South Carolina's firefighter union has called for the Charleston fire chief's resignation in the wake of a furniture store blaze that killed nine firefighters.

Michael Parrotta, president of the South Carolina Professional Firefighters Association, said firefighters had lost faith in Chief Rusty Thomas.

The June 18 fire at the Sofa Super Store was the nation's single worst loss of firefighters since the 2001 terror attacks at the World Trade Center.

"He should have already been suspended and relieved of duty," said Parrotta, whose organization represents unionized firefighters in the state. "He needs to go."

The fire department referred an interview request for Thomas to city spokeswoman Barbara Vaughn, who didn't immediately comment.

Charleston Mayor Joseph P. Riley Jr. reiterated his support for Thomas in a story published Thursday in The (Charleston) Post and Courier.

"He will continue to serve our city for as long as I am mayor and as long as he continues to do the outstanding job he has been doing," Riley told the newspaper.

Parrotta said Thomas clings to tradition instead of adapting to more safety-conscious firefighting methods.

Other union officials also have criticized Thomas. Roger Yow, president of the Charleston Firefighters' Association, has called Thomas "a failed department head" and said the mayor's support is "nothing more than blind allegiance."

Yow has said his group will take an official position on Thomas after a city-appointed panel of experts releases its analysis of the fire later this month.

Officials have been investigating the June 18 fire but have not released a cause. They have said the blaze started in a loading dock area where employees said they took cigarette breaks.

Other agencies, including the federal Occupational Safety and Health Administration, also are investigating the fire.
Copyright 2007 by The Associated Press. All rights reserved. This material may not be published, broadcast, rewritten or redistributed.

Posted by riddiksgirl on September 20, 2007 at 4:51 p.m. (Suggest removal)

Thanks for your blessings Sam...and I do get it. Somebody needs to be blamed.

Posted by Citadel2005 on September 20, 2007 at 4:57 p.m. (Suggest removal)

ThePhink: I never said you didn't have the right to say whatever you wanted to say. I really do take your thoughts into consideration. I agree with you totally when you said "I have said all along that they should be supported until the experts turned in their findings." I just wish you would have brought the heat the first time instead of waiting this late in the game to hit your "home run"!!

Posted by Kytten104 on September 20, 2007 at 5:14 p.m. (Suggest removal)

intheknow,

I don't live in the city of charleston so I can't vote for the mayor to be thrown out of office, sorry. All i'm saying is that no matter what, The city employees should be given the opportunity to chose whether or not they want to keep Rusty on. In other words, who cares what Riley says, let the Firefighters decide their own fate. And the City of Charleston's fate is in their own hands on election day. If you don't want Riley, don't freakin Vote for him. He's been an egghead since day one.

Posted by bootlicked on September 20, 2007 at 5:19 p.m. (Suggest removal)

Damn you Joe!!!!!!!!! Can't even get the date right. Keep saying how osha is wrong. I love it when ya'll do this. The city didn't even issue flash hoods until several years ago. The city hasn't had a death in 42 years, but Rusty has been Chief for 15 and killed nine. Could have been a hell of a lot more firefighters killed that night thank god Shane's golf tournament was far away. Shane must have been looking down upon the firefigters. Well Rusty you did good now we have 9 more to look out for our heroes.

Posted by right2work on September 20, 2007 at 5:20 p.m. (Suggest removal)

The head of a labor union calls for the ouster of a member of management, that's original. What part of bad things happen to good people don't they understand. 9 people died, 9 families have to deal with this. Why add to the carnage by attacking Thomas, Garvin, and Mayor Riley? It ain't bringing nobody back, that's for sure. Maybe these leaders should start a reverse smear campaign against the union. It won't happen though because they are real leaders not wannabe leaders in and outdated and now useless organization.

Posted by nickiegarbeil on September 20, 2007 at 5:32 p.m. (Suggest removal)

It's ok, Bootlicked..keep your head up...the crap is circling the drain...just have to flush harder...Take care and stay safe...

Posted by bootlicked on September 20, 2007 at 5:34 p.m. (Suggest removal)

Right2work; Ingnorant person backing someone who just had nine under their watch perish ,very original you sound like deaf and blind Cotton Eye Joe. People like you are the reason there are such things as labor unions.

Posted by bootlicked on September 20, 2007 at 5:38 p.m. (Suggest removal)

Open your eyes , shave them brows, or get you a seeing eye dog .We are just begining to rally the troops. Get ready Cotton Eye Joe!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!You make El Cid look bad.

Posted by bootlicked on September 20, 2007 at 5:40 p.m. (Suggest removal)

The union's campaign is based on facts right2work what are yours based on?

Posted by bootlicked on September 20, 2007 at 5:58 p.m. (Suggest removal)

I will be willing to bet Citadel 2005 supports O.J until the trial is over.

Posted by Boosterhose on September 20, 2007 at 6:02 p.m. (Suggest removal)

I hold a position in the CFD. Never in the time I've been with the department have I had any training to alert me to the dangers of a truss roof. Since this incident I've done research and found that a truss roof has a 16-18 minute duration in a fire. This being the case I have to figure out what other dangers are present that me and my crew face.
We are clueless.
This comes from a lack of education that goes from the Car 1 position to the lowest Firefighter in the the department. I pray that god will send me someone that knows what he is doing and help me to make the decisions that face me in this lack of education that most other departments consider common knowledge.
The last few months I've woken up at midnight or later almost every night. The ghosts of 9 men haunt my dreams.The only consolation I have is to post on these websights and try to let you eople know about the problems that those 9 men faced and everyone who survived is currently facing. This is what I do in the early AM while most of you are secure and asleep in your beds.
If properly educated to the dangers facing us the men who died would be alive today. In 3 months there has been no training to this effect and the chief is visiting the stations saying nothing has changed. I maintain my anonymity to protect my job so I can support my family.
What will it take to convince you people?

Posted by gamecockcougar on September 20, 2007 at 6:04 p.m. (Suggest removal)

Is the fire chief of Charleston really named Rusty? I feel like I'm watching the Dukes of Hazzard.

Posted by bootlicked on September 20, 2007 at 6:06 p.m. (Suggest removal)

Citadel2005: It proves my point how friends of the family,baseball players, and Joe will support him until the end. Went to Citadel probably coached by Rusty and now you are a fireman.Huh? I bet your parents are glad you used that education of yours. Probably didn't finish. Did Rusty already hire Trey?

Posted by rjahopp on September 20, 2007 at 6:11 p.m. (Suggest removal)

bcreek,

You are 100% correct regarding the CFD’s ISO Class 1 rating: “They must be doing a lot of things right.”

The earlier reply that you receuved saying “the ISO Class 1 rating has NOTHING to do with the capabilities and practices of ANY fire department.” is an absolutely, positively, unequivocally FALSE STATEMENT.

ISO is an independent organization that serves insurance companies, fire departments, insurance regulators, and others by providing information about risk. Virtually all U.S. insurers of homes and business property use ISO's Public Protection Classification in calculating insurance premiums.

The CFD’s ISO Class 1 Public Protection Classification (”PPC”) represents “exemplary fire protection,” meaning that Charleston’s homeowners and business property owners are entitled to some of the best (lowest) insurance premiums in the Nation!

ISO states that “ALL” of the following are considered in determining an ISO PPC classification such as the CFD’s Class 1 rating:

· fire alarm and communications systems, including telephone systems, telephone lines, “staffing,” and “dispatching systems”
· the water supply system, including condition and maintenance of hydrants, and a careful evaluation of the amount of available water compared with the amount needed to suppress fires
· “the fire department, including “equipment,” “staffing,” “training,” and “geographic distribution of fire companies”

Why would the union, which vows to represent firemen who are Charleston citizens, unfairly want the CFD to lose its ISO Class 1 rating?

The union wants to control Charleston City Government and elect a Mayor and City Council that is pro-union which they can influence. Therefore, their position is Mayor Riley must go.

The P&O seems just as gullible. The article should have been titled “Union wants Mayor out.”

Don’t be fooled.