Explosive indictmentFlorida college students could face prison if convicted By James Scott
The Post and Courier
Saturday, September 1, 2007
Florida college students could face prison if convicted 
Wade Spees Berkeley County Sheriff's department Cpl. Lamar Blakely answers questions about the traffic stop in Goose Creek earlier in the month that resulted in the detention of two Egyptian students on charges involving explosives. Blakely was outside department headquarters in Moncks Corner at the beginning of his shift on Friday afternoon. Sheriff Wayne DeWitt announced federal charges had been added. 
Provided Youssef Megahed, left, and Ahmed Mohamed. A federal grand jury in Tampa indicted two University of South Florida students, arrested last month during a traffic stop in Goose Creek, on charges of transporting explosives without a permit, according to a copy of the indictment unsealed Friday. One of the men also is charged with distributing information about building and using an explosive device, a terrorism-related charge, but authorities wouldn't say if the students planned to use the explosives in an attack. Ahmed Mohamed and Youssef Megahed face a maximum of 10 years in prison if convicted of transporting explosives. Mohamed also faces a possible 20 years in prison if convicted of distributing information about explosives. Berkeley County sheriff's investigators arrested the two Egyptian men after discovering what was described as a pipe bomb in the trunk of their car during a traffic stop Aug. 4 on U.S. Highway 176 near the Charleston Naval Weapons Station in Goose Creek. Authorities, who also seized a laptop computer, charged the men two days later in state court with possession of explosives. Federal authorities shared little new information on the charges Friday, declining to comment beyond what was contained in the three-page indictment. When asked if the men were involved in planning a terrorism attack, U.S. Department of Justice Spokesman Bryan Sierra said only that "no plot was alleged in the indictment." "Anytime you have an explosives charge like this there is a reason for concern," said Sierra, who declined to characterize or comment on the nature of the charges. "It merited further investigation." Charleston attorney Lionel Lofton, who was retained Wednesday to represent Mohamed, said his client planned to plead not guilty. Lofton also said he has not yet had access to the evidence against his client, who remains in the Berkeley County jail along with Megahed. "They are very serious charges, and we take them very seriously," Lofton said. "I don't believe he has done anything wrong. Based on my review of everything to date, I don't think there is a criminal violation." Attorney Andy Savage, who represents Megahed, also said that he was disappointed that authorities had not shared any of the evidence, which he requested immediately after the arrest. "They have been playing their cards close to the chest," said Savage, adding that he hoped people would reserve judgment. "We're in for a fight." Mathieu Deflem, a sociology professor at the University of South Carolina specializing in counterterrorism, said the case is an example of the aggressive stance law enforcement has taken in the wake of the Sept. 11 attacks and the failure of the intelligence community to prevent those attacks. "Now we are witnessing law enforcement and intelligence that is so careful and overly greedy in pursuing all kinds of cases under the umbrella of terrorism," Deflem said. "We are all on guard and we are all alert and all out to get the bad guys before they can hurt us again." Ninth Circuit Solicitor Scarlett Wilson said she expected her office to dismiss state charges and turn over prosecution to federal attorneys. Like the others, she declined to comment on the specifics of the evidence, including the amount of explosives found in the car. "There's no scientific definition of a pipe bomb," Wilson said. "The issue for us was whether or not they were designed to propel material in the air or to explode. That required a testing of the materials in the devices and also a replication of the devices." Kevin McDonald, spokesman with the U.S. Attorney's Office in Columbia, said the case involved coordination between authorities in South Carolina, Florida and Washington. McDonald would not comment on the evidence or the charges, noting only that the charges are felonies. After their arrest, the men told authorities they were on a weekend road trip to North Carolina. They said the devices in their trunk were made from fireworks purchased from a Wal-Mart, but Berkeley County Sheriff Wayne DeWitt has said the devices were not fireworks. The indictments come after searches of a home in a Tampa suburb, where authorities carried away items belonging to Mohamed, as well as a storage facility and a park. This week, the grand jury, which has been hearing testimony in the case, sent a subpoena to Savage's office for DNA and hair samples from Megahed. More information could come out during a court hearing for the men, possibly as early as next week. Mohamed was described by federal authorities as a graduate student studying civil engineering at the University of South Florida. He also is described as being either 24 or 26 years old and a teaching assistant at the University of South Florida. Megahed, 21, was described as an engineering student. Megahed is being held on $300,000 bail. Mohamed's bail is $500,000. DeWitt said he expected the two to be moved eventually to the Navy brig in Hanahan, where federal enemy combatants have been held, but so far no federal authorities had been in touch with him about it. DeWitt said the two men are in cells by themselves, separated from the general population, but have had some contact with each other at times, including during mandated yard exercise. "They haven't had a lot to say," DeWitt said. "They haven't given us any problems." Bo Petersen contributed to this report. Reach James Scott at 937-5549 or at jscott@postandcourier.com. |
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Posted by dropping_dimes on September 1, 2007 at 2:23 a.m. (Suggest removal)
DAMN RAG-HEADS........ PLAYING STUPID LIKE THE MEXICANS SAY ME DON'T SPEAK ES-PAN-OLIA. IDIOTS
Posted by teeitup on September 1, 2007 at 5:53 a.m. (Suggest removal)
These poor fellows were only on a road trip to North Carolina from Tampa Florida. Of course the best routewould be through Goose Creek and Highway 176 with a visit to the Naval Weapons Station.
Posted by sjmehlhose on September 1, 2007 at 7:55 a.m. (Suggest removal)
We need to protect our borders. All immigrants from the middle east (who aren't naturalized citizens yet) need to be deported and a moratorium must be put in place preventing ALL muslims from stepping foot on our shores. Their whole religion is dedicated to wiping out our culture and civilization. If anybody doesn't believe me, just visit Dearborn Michigan. In downtown Dearborn (home to Ford Motor Company) ALL of the signs for businesses are in Arabic. In Dearborn, the English language is no longer tolerated and normal Americans are unwelcome.
Posted by piglettgirl on September 1, 2007 at 8:54 a.m. (Suggest removal)
way to go lamar...you are an awesome cop....
Posted by trinitytim on September 1, 2007 at 9:27 a.m. (Suggest removal)
My congratulations to the police officers who did such a great job on this case. As a 25 year police veteran from the Washington DC area, I think you guys saved the day.
By the way, where are all those liberals now who were defending these guys on the earlier message boards. I guess they're still looking for the easter bunny and santa clause. Maybe they'll show up later, but I doubt it.
Remember, If you see something, say something. We are still at risk and we all need to suspicious. These terrorists will not be satisfied until the Islamic flag flies over the white house. We must stop them.
Posted by jammer on September 1, 2007 at 9:41 a.m. (Suggest removal)
hang 'em high... take 'em out to hell hole swamp n let the locals deal with them
congrats definitely go to BCSO !! and that deputy in particular
Posted by hawneena on September 1, 2007 at 9:52 a.m. (Suggest removal)
trinitytim, those liberals are choking on crow right now. We will hear from them when they get their throats cleared.
In the meantime, I am enjoying eating omelettes instead of wiping them off of my face.
Posted by miki on September 1, 2007 at 9:53 a.m. (Suggest removal)
There is still that whole innocent until PROVEN guilty. People need to stop convicting people before they've been tried. Granted, with the scant information that we've been given, it looks like this could be terrorist related. But is it"9/11"-style terrorist related or "VA Tech Cho"-style terrorist related? Regardless, GREAT job to the law enforcement officers who were vigilent and doing their jobs well. Woo!
Posted by juniemoon1957 on September 1, 2007 at 10:26 a.m. (Suggest removal)
Way to go Blakely.....way to go. Congratualtions on a job well done.
Posted by dog on September 1, 2007 at 10:35 a.m. (Suggest removal)
Great job BCSD & Deputy Blakely!
Posted by hawneena on September 1, 2007 at 1:09 p.m. (Suggest removal)
Geechie and navyblueblood, you fellas are great.
Let's all go have a cup of coffee and bash "shetheads".
LMAO...that is so funny.
Posted by juniemoon1957 on September 1, 2007 at 1:33 p.m. (Suggest removal)
What about MoFo's? Is that allowed. Which is what they are. My problem with lawyers. I could not, defend anyone I thought that might even be guilty. I don't think the last time I looked in the craft department at Hobby Lobby or Wally World I saw a section for "Pipe Bomb Making". Yaw want cream with that coffee?
Posted by trinitytim on September 1, 2007 at 1:53 p.m. (Suggest removal)
Navyblueblood, Great comments. I'm with you. I drank my coffee early this morning but I'll drive if you want to hit the road for Tampa. I lived down there for awhile and I can tell you it's like muslim Sh**head heaven. They're everywhere over near the USF campus.
I've got some law enforcement contacts in that area as well as SC and I've heard that this is all coming together nicely. I worked the muslim sniper case in MD and I think these guys are similar in that they aren't officially connected to AQ but inspired by them. Although, as the investigation unfolds, they might find some loose connections. Time will tell.
Again, Great Job by the cops.
Posted by GG on September 1, 2007 at 2:30 p.m. (Suggest removal)
Yes, we must be PC now so these towel head terrorists will help to spend our hard earned tax dollars for their legal trials.
Isn't it ironic that they want to destroy the same country that allows them the opportunity to do so and then get legal representation that we as US citizens pay for.
Oh, that's right, I am so sorry. I forgot that the liberals want to make sure we are PC with everyone like these terrorists, but they forget to be the same way when they deal with conservatives.
Posted by jammer on September 1, 2007 at 2:36 p.m. (Suggest removal)
I'm there too navy, geechie n others... had my Beaners trente justa little while ago, and counting my ammo
I think I'll go hit the range tomorrow, every competent mentally stable true American needs a cwp (concealed weapons permit)and a fitness program so you have the capacity to take care of you and yours
2nd amendment - 90 out of every 100 households have firearms in their house for personal protection, more than any other nation ... dats what keeps China at bay, as well as others
Posted by stephaniem on September 1, 2007 at 2:51 p.m. (Suggest removal)
I will state from first hand experience that cops are corrupt enough that they will refuse to turn over evidence that can free you as well.
3 yrs ago I had a cop cuss me out for going 70 on the interstate during construction (55) and he slammed my door twice. I tried to report him and his videotape went missing.
I also went through a domestic violence situation and called the cops to help me as my ex was threatening to kill me, my pets and my family if I ignored him.....He was trying to become a cop and was friends with several and they still won't hand over the 911 phone call or other files to my lawyer b/c it makes them look bad
Posted by trinitytim on September 1, 2007 at 2:54 p.m. (Suggest removal)
Jammer,
I know this is not directly on topic but your mention of the 2nd ammendment reminded me of an article I had seen in an edition of the 1st ID newsletter. Very interesting.
Defenseless people rounded up and exterminated in the 20th Century because of gun control: 56 million.
------------------------------
It has now been 12 months since gun owners in Australia were forced by new law to surrender 640,381 personal firearms to be destroyed by their own government, a program costing Australia taxpayers more than $500 million dollars. The first year results are now in:
List of 7 items: Australia-wide, homicides are up 3.2 percent Australia-wide, assaults are up 8.6 percent Australia-wide, armed robberies are up 44 percent (yes, 44 percent)!
In the state of Victoria alone, homicides with firearms are now up 300 percent. Note that while the law-abiding citizens turned them in, the criminals did not, and criminals still possess their guns!
While figures over the previous 25 years showed a steady decrease in armed robbery with firearms, this has changed drastically upward in the past 12 months, since criminals now are guaranteed that their prey is unarmed.
There has also been a dramatic increase in break-ins and assaults of the ELDERLY. Australian politicians are at a loss to explain how public safety has decreased, after such monumental effort and expense was expended in successfully ridding Australian society of guns The Australian experience and the other historical facts above prove it.
You won't see this data on the US evening news, or hear politicians disseminating this information.
Guns in the hands of honest citizens save lives and property and, yes, gun-control laws adversely affect only the law-abiding citizens.
The next time someone talks in favor of gun control, please remind them of this history lesson.
In my opinion, With guns, we are 'citizens' without them, we are 'subjects'.
Posted by trinitytim on September 1, 2007 at 3:02 p.m. (Suggest removal)
stephaniem....
I can't address your allegations because I wasn't there. I also won't tell you that 100% of cops are good because I know there are a few that are bad. One of the last arrests I made before I retired was of another cop for a serious crime. What I do know is that the bad cops are few and far between.
If you have a problem with obtaining evidence, file a request under the Freedom of Information Act. If that doesn't work, call the Chief of your department. If that doesn't work, contact the press.
The worst thing you can do is nothing and complaining about it here is not what I would recommend you do.
Posted by hawneena on September 1, 2007 at 3:42 p.m. (Suggest removal)
cvs, did the Internet police really send you a message?
I should have gotten a whole sh** load of them by now.
No one has to be PC on here. That would take away all of the fun. :)
Posted by w_a_c_w on September 1, 2007 at 3:57 p.m. (Suggest removal)
im speechless....you all must have the inside scoop because you sure seem to know whats going on even though the authorities are keeping a tight lip on this case. i appreciate the fact that if im being held on suspicion that the law would have to prove my guilt, unless of course im of the darker persuasion (i know, iknow, sad but true, just look at our prison systems). im glad the criminals behind 9/11 werent black. boy oh boy, i can just see you good ol boys taken out some good ol boy justice. just to quote you all, "hang em high" "let the locals deal with em" " counting ammo" "loading up and gettin some s***heads" "bashing some s***heads".
all sounds kind of reminiscent of KKK and their ignorance torwards other races and religions. The south is truly alive in the lowcountry.
Posted by cmf on September 1, 2007 at 4:26 p.m. (Suggest removal)
well look here, blacks like crime, so they have to be put in jail.better off locked up with their kind. and yeah, if blacks did help in taking down the trade centers then yes every last one of em would have to be hung up high. cops have hard job to do, they dont go lookin to put inocent folks in jail.
good job goose creek oficers for helpin us good folks sleep better at night.
Posted by trinitytim on September 1, 2007 at 4:26 p.m. (Suggest removal)
wacw...
You obviously harbor some deep hatred for this part of the country. My guess is for the whole country as well. I have not seen any reference to race, KKK, good ole boys or anything else un-American in any of the posts on this board.
Please feel free to disagree but also feel free to back up your thoughts with facts.
Posted by hawneena on September 1, 2007 at 4:35 p.m. (Suggest removal)
w_a_c_w, American citizens were not behind 9/11.
Citizens of all races died on that day.
There is no ignorance behind any of these posts except maybe yours.
You are obviously a bleeding heart that would be the first one screamimg for one of these "good old boys" to help you.
If you want to stick your head in the sand and think that these scumbags won't try again, then go ahead.
I, for one, will never be forced to speak Arabic as my first language, or second language either.
If owning guns and being willing to defend oneself makes a person a Southern redneck, then count me in.
P.S. If you are a female then I hope you realize what these animals think of women.
Posted by w_a_c_w on September 1, 2007 at 4:51 p.m. (Suggest removal)
i was asked to back up my "good ol boy" comment with facts. so here they are:
1.all muslims need to be deported.
2.hang em high, take em out to the hell hole swam.....
3.good gun control.. is hitting your target
4.they are all a bunch of islamic scumbags....no way theyre
innocent....im ready for a fight.
5.run down.. and kick some shethead butt
6.im with you, ill hit the road with you to tampa
7. ill hit the range tomorrow (for what exactly?)
8. i wont even dignify cmf's comment, enough said.
hmmm. seems like enough "unamerican" sentiment to me. enough facts for you? i didnt make it up, it came from your own mouths. stop the mob mentality and think for yourselves. not one of you would make these racist and unsupported comments in public for fear of getting your "feelings" hurt ;)
Posted by CougarGirl on September 1, 2007 at 4:55 p.m. (Suggest removal)
While I am glad a thorough investigation of the activities of these students resulted in Federal indictments, I am equally glad that I am educated enough to realize that not all people of Middle Eastern descent are plotting to take the lives of Americans. I am also pleased that my status has a professional woman has offered me opportunities to visit and live in large cities where people of all creeds, colors, sexual orientations, and, yes, even religions live peacably among Americans.
I pray the ignorant here will one day have the same chance.
Posted by hawneena on September 1, 2007 at 5:03 p.m. (Suggest removal)
In order to get an indictment there has to be sufficient evidence. Said indictments were acquired after a search of the home in Tampa. What does that tell the public? They found something down there that was not with these two men when they were arrested here. We don't know what they found, but it had to be something of significance in order to have obtained the indictments.
Posted by juniemoon1957 on September 1, 2007 at 5:12 p.m. (Suggest removal)
Jammer...I am way ahead. Went to the range yesterday, dang you cannot improve on perfect, but I try. Few dollars for bullets and I feel a whole lot better. Yes, I have a Concealed Weapons Permit and a 40mm Glock. I feel so much safer than I did when I did not have it. I also carry it with me on the occasion I am out late at night, which is rare. I would not hesitate to use my weapon if I thought bodily harm would come to me or my friends/family that I am out with. Maybe, just maybe, if all law abiding, good decent souls had guns there would be less crime. Does that make me a "redneck"? I am from the south. Wow, I love labels.
Posted by hawneena on September 1, 2007 at 5:31 p.m. (Suggest removal)
CougarGirl, I don't believe that all people of Middle Eastern descent have been targeted here.
These two men happen to be Egyptian. I know an Egyptian family that has lived in this country legally for over 25 yrs. They are practicing Christians and some of the nicest people I have ever met.
It is the Muslim extremists that cause alarm. The problem is being able to separate the peaceful Muslims from the dangerous ones. Why are the so called good Muslims living in our country not denouncing these men? Their silence creates suspicion and speaks volumes by itself.
Posted by CougarGirl on September 1, 2007 at 5:39 p.m. (Suggest removal)
I was not trying to suggest that the authorities are targeting people of Middle Eastern descent. Rather, I was talking about the bigoted comments of ignorance posted here.
Posted by Father_of_3 on September 1, 2007 at 5:46 p.m. (Suggest removal)
Congratulations Everybody!
From all of the “enlightened” people sharing all of your absolute "facts" we now have all the details…
FACT: These two men were going to the Naval Weapons Station to “blow it up” because there is no other reason for them to be in Goose Creek, SC.
FACT: These two men had a high explosive bomb(s)in the trunk of their car.
FACT: These two men had a laptop and GPS to help to deploy the bomb.
FACT: These two men are not from America, that PROVES that they were up to no good.
FACT: These two men are TERRORISTS!
I know I have left out a lot of the “facts” so please continue to list more of the “Facts” that I forgot to mention.
SO there, you have all changed Father_of_3’s mind, I now believe as all of you, these guys HAVE to be guilty.
Seriously, I don’t know and have NEVER said that these guys are innocent, all of my rants have been about how all of you are POSITIVE that they are guilty. I’ll bet the people who backed Mike Nifong in the Duke case had wished they had waited until all the evidence had been submitted.
Posted by majorjohnson on September 1, 2007 at 6:23 p.m. (Suggest removal)
Hey father, don't forget the "I can tell by their pictures that they are terrorists" fact.
Three days and 52 years ago this would have been the crowd that killed Emmitt Till.
Not saying these guys aren't guilty, just saying.
Posted by kennyt on September 1, 2007 at 7:02 p.m. (Suggest removal)
Come on people what is wrong with two terrorist riding around with bombs in there trunk? Allah aqbar and Mohammed is his messenger, They just wanted there 72 brown eyed virgin and them there cops messed it up, my what is this world coming to? I ride around with two gallons(can't afford more than that) of Saudi crude in my tank which could explode any second.
Posted by majorjohnson on September 1, 2007 at 7:05 p.m. (Suggest removal)
Hey hanz. Ever hear of Oppenheimer or Bohr? Those are radical guys from a place we went to war with that the feds let in, and they created a terrible bomb that killed hundreds of thousands, some are even dying from the effect of the bomb they created to this very day. Lots of folks don't know that, because the government hushed it up.
I'm with you. No more foreigners. Our schools are certainly pumping out enough American talent to deal with things that require poking a picture of a hamburger on the cash register...what else do we need? We sure don't need the large percentage of foreign students who become U.S. citizens and contribute to our largess.
Someone grab my bucket and a bag of feathers, I'll go warm up the tar...
Posted by Father_of_3 on September 1, 2007 at 7:18 p.m. (Suggest removal)
Hey Geechie, you wrote earlier…
“They need to prove themselves innocent and that sounds like that will be hard for them to do. Put their as*.*s in jail for a long time.”
You want me to “wake up”? What you wrote sent a chill down my spine. I personally don’t know if these guys are innocent or guilty. What I have a problem with is all of the people who are positive of their guilt.
So let me get this straight… if YOU get stopped for speeding you want it to be your responsibility to prove you’re innocent and not the responsibility of the officer to prove your guilt?
How about if I accused you of raping a 8 year old child, do you think you should have to prove you’re innocent or should I have to provide facts to prove you’re guilty?
What has happened to this country? How have we gotten to the point where we now have to prove we’re innocent? What happened to the burden of guilt being placed on the one’s doing the accusing?
“They need to prove themselves innocent”… SHAME ON YOU!!!!!!!
Posted by trinitytim on September 1, 2007 at 7:19 p.m. (Suggest removal)
Idolhanz... You are right. The feds have done a terrible job of securing our borders and these sanctuary cities have not been helpful either. Give more authority to the local law enforcement.
Father3...I never said they were guilty but I will tell you that you don't get a federal indictment brought against you for having fireworks in your car.
CougarGirl... I truly wish I could believe your assessment of this "religion of Peace" concept but when I look at every country or region of the world where Islam bumps up against western civilization, there is tension. I also can't undersatnd why cartoons can spark murders all around the muslim world. What I see is not the rosy picture you paint.
Majorjohnson... I spilled my blood on several occasions to protect the lives of innocent Americans. In fact there were a couple of times when even the Drs. were'nt sure I would make it home. I would never lynch anyone and I don't appreciate the insinuation that simply because I believe that these 2 were up to no good that I am somehow a potential murderer or racist.
Time will tell. Knowing how the system works, I put my money on the feds. I am also sick and tired of CAIR and liberal Americans crying and whining that these 2 were somehow victimized. As I understand probable cause, this stop was legal and justified.
If the muslims don't want to live by our rules, they can always move to Iran or some other place where Sharia law is practiced.
Posted by trinitytim on September 1, 2007 at 7:58 p.m. (Suggest removal)
Geechie...
The common sense you demonstrate is refreshing. You are my hero.
If only you could pass on your wisdom to the folks in this country who prefer to protect the civil rights of potential terrorists even it leads to another terrorist attack.
Posted by majorjohnson on September 1, 2007 at 8:03 p.m. (Suggest removal)
Hey geechie...usf is a well recognized socialist propaganda center...plenty of environmental and animal liberation crapola, even has a man named Hoch who gives seminars in animal rights in their law school, like there is such a thing in our constitution. That said, what do the pictures on their site have to do with this event?
I have both short and long arms in the range from .22 to .50 caliber, along with several gauges of scatterguns and a few pounds of black powder, and regularly kill both small and large game for food (in season only, in case DNR is watching). If I get hungry and it's down to me and you, I'm gonna eat. If I attended usf would that make me suspect of being a subversive extremist?
I'm probably as conservative as any who post here, but the posters who prefer guilty, lets just hang em instead of let's wait and see what the justice system says really amazes me. Not too long ago, before the internet, some of those folk would be standing in the village square and making nooses.
If these guys are found guilty of some nefarious scheme I'm willing to shoot them myself, let em rot in my fields and let my buzzards poop em for fertilizer, but I'd like something more than "I can tell by their pictures" or "I heard here" to do that.
Posted by majorjohnson on September 1, 2007 at 8:15 p.m. (Suggest removal)
not an insinuation on you tim, or any one else...just a general assessement of the mob mentality. I sure don't see haweena running out and lynching anyone, but there is a lot of power in a mob. You hear that some black kid winked at a white girl, you go downtown to protest it, you get in the mob...next thing you know some kid who did nothing is fruit on the poplar tree. The mob is a dangerous thing...we have law for a very good reason.
Posted by trinitytim on September 1, 2007 at 8:20 p.m. (Suggest removal)
majorjohnson...
Thanks for the clarification.
I agree with you but I always worked against the crowd not with them. Sounds like we're on the same side here.
Posted by stephaniem on September 1, 2007 at 8:25 p.m. (Suggest removal)
to everyone on this board:
I have read both the bible and the koran. Both books talk about their obsessions with virgins, how women are inferior and putting nonbelievers to death...
I truly believe that our country would be fighting the middle east w/o these books simply because neither government wants peace. Boys learn at an early age to play war games and all this fighting is simply "pissing contests" between our leaders with the poor man fighting the rich man's war.
read Numbers 31 and Deuteronomy 22...remember the old testament is still being read in our churchs as we haven't discarded it
new testament against women -- 1 Corinthians, 5 Ephesians, 1 Timothy
I also think these two males are a distraction for the media and a way to either test waters for something bigger or just cause paranoia. It is really dumb to speed that fast if you actually had bomb equipment in your trunk.
I drive extra cautious when I "borrow" my boyfriends car to go to the store.
All said and done, lets not turn on each other during this incident b/c that is what the middle east really wants.
Posted by stephaniem on September 1, 2007 at 8:29 p.m. (Suggest removal)
majorjohnson, animals do have some rights
I hate peta and I am not with them but it takes a cold blooded person to torture an animal just to be torturing it
I read articles of kittens being set on fire with lighter fluid and dogs left to starve and those stories are sad. Human killing or even quick kills with hunting is better than that.
Posted by majorjohnson on September 1, 2007 at 8:32 p.m. (Suggest removal)
Hey geechie....I don't give a thimble of warm spit how old you are. I'm edging up on senior citizen myself, no one is giving me a break, and I neither expect nor extend leniency. You're an old fart. I give you a Throckmorton P. Gildersleeve laugh. For those not as old as geechie and I, ignore that.
Posted by Granmomma on September 1, 2007 at 8:34 p.m. (Suggest removal)
Let's all get together as American citizens and taxpayers and let Washington DC know we are fed up with too much liberal politics and bleeding hearts . Close our borders and send the foreign citizens home ! We can not support the whole world . We are one of the youngest countries , yet we are the strongest and everyone wants to come here . The other countries need to start taking care of themselves. Why do we as Americans have to support all people. Let's try sticking together instead of constant grumbling and do something come election day .I hope Fred Thompson runs and I can vote for him . He reminds me of Ronald Reagan.
Posted by trinitytim on September 1, 2007 at 8:48 p.m. (Suggest removal)
I just found this and it sheds some very interesting light on this discussion.
Ahmed Abdellatif Sherif Mohamed, 24, an engineering graduate student and teaching assistant at the Tampa-based university, faces terrorism charges for teaching and demonstrating how to use the explosives.
According to officials familiar with the case, Mohamed has been arrested previously in Egypt on terrorism-related charges. He is said to have produced an Internet video showing how to build a remote-controlled car bomb.
Mohamed and Youssef Samir Megahed, 21, also an engineering student, were stopped for speeding Aug. 4 in Goose Creek, S.C., where they have been held on state charges. Police found pipe bombs in their car near a Navy base in South Carolina where enemy combatants have been held. They have been held in a South Carolina jail while the FBI continued to investigate whether there was a terrorism link…
Both Mohamed and Megahed are in the country legally on student visas, officials said. (emphasis added)
Posted by majorjohnson on September 1, 2007 at 9:02 p.m. (Suggest removal)
Stephaniem...where do those animal rights come from? Our rights come solely through the federal constitution, other than those not enumerated, which are rights granted by the states or the people. I can give you a citation if you actually need it.
If we were in Iran, your right would be to wear a burka and follow your man by 10 paces.
If animals have any rights, I'd like to see where they come from. We only have the right to free speech in the United States because our constitution says we do. It's not because it's the right thing to do, it's not because it feels right, it's not because of some natural law that we all should just know, it's because as a constitutional republic we have an amendment to the constitution that lays it out on paper and says we agree to it. Do you even recognise what the constitution and bill of rights are?
And if haweena is offended that I used her in reference, she can come spank me...or if she prefers I can spank her instead...it's all good. She's a poothead sometimes, but then so am I, so what the heck.
Posted by trinitytim on September 1, 2007 at 9:11 p.m. (Suggest removal)
major,
You're right but there are limitations on free speech as defined by precedent setting court cases. In fact, all of the constitutional ammendments have ristrictions including the 4th and 5th ammendments which deal with search and seizue and the rights of defendants.
I don't agree with Stephaniem but I do agree with her general statement that animals are not to be tortured. In fact that "right" has been codified in all fifty states. See Michael Vick's problems.
Stephaniem seems to want to blame the police yet she fails to recognize that if the police lose this war, and that is what it is, then she will be relegated to a subservient role with no rights other than the right to reproduce. If she doesn't comply with that demand, she will most likely be executed. Oh well, go figure.
Not sure how we got to animal rights on a discussion board talking about terrorism but here we are.
Back on topic, any comments on the fact that one of these guys was arrested in Egypt for terrorism related offenses?
Posted by CougarGirl on September 1, 2007 at 9:37 p.m. (Suggest removal)
Thanks, trinitytim, for your comment.
I said nothing of Islam being a religion of peace (though unlike many here, I'd guess - I have, at least, studied it in college). My comments are simply meant to suggest that people here in this forum, in this state, should broaden their horizons before condemning those who don't think like, look like or worship as they do. There are, indeed, people who practice Islam and / or of Middle Eastern descent (because not all people of Middle Eastern descent are Muslims), who live peacably among Americans all over our nation.
Posted by trinitytim on September 1, 2007 at 9:41 p.m. (Suggest removal)
Geechie,
I'm afraid that the enemy is already among us. Not only is the enemy in Pakistan, Afghanistan, Pakistan, Iraq, and Iran, they are in Florida, South Carolina, North Carolina, and probably every other state as well.
We shouldn't need another brick wall to fall on us to see what we're up against. That already happened on 9/11. Wake up and smell the coffee Americans.
Posted by trinitytim on September 1, 2007 at 9:53 p.m. (Suggest removal)
CougarGirl,
I respect your opinion but I would ask you to name one country where Islam is peacably existing within western civilization.
Have you ever heard what the Imams in this country and europe are preaching in their peaceful mosques? It's not what they would have us believe. It's pure hate and intolerance of anything not of Islam. They have a goal of making an Islamic world and they are patient enough to see it through even if it takes another 50 or 100 years.
I have a broad horizon already when it comes to Islam. I worked 9/11 at the Pentagon and I worked the muslim sniper case. My perspective is pretty clear in my mind. I have been told by several muslims that it is permissable to lie to an infidel if it furthers their goal of spreading Islam. That I know for a fact and I have seen it happen firsthand.
Thanks for your comments. I do respect your opinion even if I don't agree.
Posted by jammer on September 1, 2007 at 10:02 p.m. (Suggest removal)
trinitytim, good find on the egypt terroism charges... not surprising to me
junebug, you go girl...
w_a_c_w, that's barely worthy of a response except... ok so what's exactly wrong with what people have said?
you're in the dark w_a_c_w, this hasn't been and isn't about race so go climb another tree
besides the KKK can't count that high... lol
Father3, we'll hear you one day ask for another mag... or we'll hear your crying
Posted by CougarGirl on September 1, 2007 at 10:02 p.m. (Suggest removal)
"....muslim Sh**head heaven"
Religious intolerance like this saddens me, and it reminds me of how far we still have to go.
Posted by hawneena on September 1, 2007 at 10:16 p.m. (Suggest removal)
majorjohnson, No offense taken. Sorry, I'm not into S&M. LOL
I don't think you are old enough to be my "daddy".
You called me a poothead! I can live with that.
Actually, as long as no one touchs my chocolate stash, they are allowed to live. That is where I draw the line.
I do love you, you know that, right? :)
Posted by Father_of_3 on September 1, 2007 at 10:23 p.m. (Suggest removal)
Hey Jammer,
FYI... I own a mini 14, mak90 and three 80 round drums, a tricked out sks with composite stock, scope, bipod & bayonet. 3 pump scatterguns, a double and 3 singles not to mention 5 handguns from 22 to 44, I've probabaly have more mags than you have had sex... so don't inply I'll EVER ask for a mag. BUT GUESS WHAT?.... I don't have a concealed carry permit because I don't need or want one.
Thank God for MajorJ that I'm not the only one who has read & remembers history and knows what happens when the majority chooses not to.
It's interesting that no one has commented about my post where Geechie says these guys should have to prove they are innocent. SHAME ON YOU ALL!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Posted by trinitytim on September 1, 2007 at 10:24 p.m. (Suggest removal)
cougargirl,
You didn't answer my question and that quote is not religious intolerance, it is factual. Anyone who wants to kill me and my family because I am unwilling to submit to the worship of their god is a muslim sh**head.
It is because of people like me and thousands of other police officers and military personnel that you have the right to express your thoughts. What you don't seem to understand is that in spite of my personal beliefs about Islam, I willingly put myself in the line of fire, literally, to protect them just like every other police officer does every night.
We took an oath to uphold the constitution of the United States and there is nothing that could sway me from obeying that oath. I have the scars to prove it.
Posted by hawneena on September 1, 2007 at 10:25 p.m. (Suggest removal)
If you type in Tampa newspapers you will get the sites for several papers. I found some conflicting articles between the different papers. Strange....
trinitytim, where did you get that info?
Posted by jammer on September 1, 2007 at 10:31 p.m. (Suggest removal)
Father3 that doesn't mean you know how to use them, or that you will... many choke under pressure
it merely shows you have a nice bank account
what I do or don't have will only be known if neccessary
Posted by trinitytim on September 1, 2007 at 10:32 p.m. (Suggest removal)
father of 3,
Excuse me but I did comment on your post several times, not by name but by substance. I offer my comments and opinions within the framework of the constitution. That document is the basis upon which everything in law enforcement is done.
The constitution mandates that the government must prove its case beyond a reasonabl doubt, the highest standard of proof which is reasonably possible. Any comments made by me are based upon that assumption first and foremost. That goes without saying.
Posted by anon123 on September 1, 2007 at 10:33 p.m. (Suggest removal)
"I hope this does not turn out like the ole expression. We have found the enemy and they are already among us"
Uh, hate to intrude on your self-bleating paranoid fantasy, but the saying is "We have found the enemy and they is *us*".
And based on the vitriolic un-American BS most of you "conservative" Americans are spouting, I would have to say yes, the enemy is most likely us.
Posted by jammer on September 1, 2007 at 10:34 p.m. (Suggest removal)
and yeaa u don't need a cwp, we got your back even if we disagree on some topics... differences make the world a more interesting place
Posted by trinitytim on September 1, 2007 at 10:37 p.m. (Suggest removal)
See the latest on these guys at
http://hotair.com/archives/2007/09/01/go...
Posted by hawneena on September 1, 2007 at 10:38 p.m. (Suggest removal)
CougarGirl, I respect what you studied in college. However, it is easier to fathom what trinitytim is saying because he has firsthand experience in dealing with people of this religion. He has seen the horrors and experienced the pain. Reading and studying about a subject is just not the same as what I like to call OJT, or on the job training.
BTW, I take it you are a CofC grad? You are lucky to have gotten into a religion class. My daughter graduated from there, and she was never able to get into any religion class because of the high demand.
Posted by anon123 on September 1, 2007 at 10:44 p.m. (Suggest removal)
"It's interesting that no one has commented about my post where Geechie says these guys should have to prove they are innocent. SHAME ON YOU ALL!!!!!!!!!!!!!!"
Statements like that do not deserve a reply, as it's obvious that the author is either a troll or a GOP ignoramus.
Posted by CougarGirl on September 1, 2007 at 10:48 p.m. (Suggest removal)
Hawneena, I am talking not just about things I have studied in college (in class), but things I was exposed to while a college student. I, too, have firsthand knowledge of dealing with followers of Islam. I have lived in and visited major cities where Muslims (Americans and those of Middle Eastern descent) live, work, worship and contribute peacefully to society.
The point I am trying to make is that ignorance like this is dangerous. While I condemn the actions of these men, I feel blessed that I am educated enough not to lump all people of Middle Eastern descent and / or followers of Islam into the category of terrorists. There are bad people of all creeds, colors, sexual orientations and religions.
Posted by trinitytim on September 1, 2007 at 10:48 p.m. (Suggest removal)
Hey anon123,
If we are all trolls or GOP ignoramuses, what does that make you?
I have read your post twice and I don't have a clue as to what you're trying to say. Surely you can express yourself better than that.
Posted by trinitytim on September 1, 2007 at 10:53 p.m. (Suggest removal)
CougarGirl,
Still no answer to my question. All I asked for is one country.
Posted by anon123 on September 1, 2007 at 11:02 p.m. (Suggest removal)
Didn't mean to confuse you tim. Here, I'll spell it out:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Presumption...
Posted by Father_of_3 on September 1, 2007 at 11:05 p.m. (Suggest removal)
Trinity,
That's the problem with these posts, anyone can say anyting.
You know what a "Practical Pistol Match" is? I placed 1st, 2nd & 3rd in both revolver & automatic class. These matches were held at Smith & Smith and Top Gun in the late 80's & early 90's. That deals with IF I know how.
When I was 16, a low-life, half-breed molested my next door, childhood, bestfriend's 8 year old sister. I held my best friend as he & I waited for the police to arrive, we watched together as that man lay on the carport gasping for his last breath and spitting blood. He died right in front of our eyes. I never lost one second of sleep over that man dieing. That takes care of if I'm going to choke when I have to do what I have to do.
I have seen 5 other people die before my eyes since then, the vast majority of Americans and people on this post have never witnessed one person die.
When my best friend & I walked in on the naked half-breed on top of his sister, we didn't need a jury. Thank God we were not legally adults. But what we experianced was different than what everyone is talking about on this post.
Be vigilant, BUT Take a breath.
Posted by Father_of_3 on September 1, 2007 at 11:16 p.m. (Suggest removal)
anom123,
I'm slow so excuse me if I'm confused too.
I thought you were taking a jab at me and calling me a troll.
I expected a definition of a troll when I clicked on your link.
Boy was I surprised when I read what was at your link.
That says EVERYTHING about what I have been trying to say. If found guilty, cut their nose off, hang them, make them do community service... that's up to the judge to sentence them.
But what does it say about our country when we throw "Presumption of Innocence" out the window. Does that put us in the class of "Non-Developed" countries?
Posted by Father_of_3 on September 1, 2007 at 11:21 p.m. (Suggest removal)
Yes Geechie, I checked your post.
It still did not give me any more info on why we should think these men are innocent nor did it give me any more facts of their guilt.
I still say burn em' if guilty, let em' go if innocent.
We still have to be carefull of "knowing for sure" someone is guilty before someone is given a trial. You never know, one day it could be me or YOU that has been accused of wrong doing!
Posted by trinitytim on September 1, 2007 at 11:21 p.m. (Suggest removal)
father of 3.
Well, seems like we have quite a lot in common. I too have witnessed death on multiple occassions including the death of two of my best friends, one in combat and one after he stopped a drug dealing scumbag for speeding. Shot in the face.
I have handled more than 200 homicides and been hurt in the line of duty 4 times. I have been decorated for valor and am deemed an expert in anti-terrorist driving and high speed driving.
I too have taken the life of another. No choice. It was either kill or be killed. I have also been seriously hurt in the line of duty.
I am sorry that you had to deal with such a major crime at so young of an age. Seems like you cam trough okay. If I can help in any way, let me know.
Posted by jammer on September 1, 2007 at 11:28 p.m. (Suggest removal)
ok Father3 we seem to kinda be on the same page, the main difference is I know I'm right because I have had the inside scoop and you are still waiting on the jury that I don't need
I used to shoot at S&S often too, it's a shame they shut down... bought my first glock there, a G17 in '89 back when Glock was pretty new to the USA... I just sent it back about a month ago for a recall that had been out for a decade, they completely refurbed it free of charge
and yea I won a comp with the M16A1 back in '81 against over 700 ppl... when the eyes were younger I could just about dot the eyes at 500 yrds
Posted by Father_of_3 on September 1, 2007 at 11:30 p.m. (Suggest removal)
Here's a joke:
A man was on trial for biting another man's ear off.
The witness told the judge he was "positive" that the accused was indeed guilty.
The judge said "How are you "positive" that the accused actually bite this man's ear off? Did you actually witness this horrific event?"
The man simply relied "No, I did not".
So the Judge asked "How can you be "Positive"?"
THe man replied "I saw him spit the ear out!"
The moral of the story is... If anyone here "saw the ear spit out"... I would back you 100%! However, NO ONE has even told us what was found in the trunk. If they found a pipe bomb or any other type of "bomb", call me stupid but... How in the hell could "that jeopordize the investigation" when that could easily be proven with evidence?
Posted by hawneena on September 1, 2007 at 11:33 p.m. (Suggest removal)
Geechie, I checked out the link. I have to wonder why the P&C doesn't report the same info. I thought investigative reporters were supposed to be doing just that.
BTW, A man that admits to loving chocolate is a rare find.
Posted by stephaniem on September 1, 2007 at 11:40 p.m. (Suggest removal)
trinitytim, this isn't the police's war.
I do complain about the police b/c I know of police who smoke pot, sell coke and hit their wives and little get done.
these guys may be guilty but they may be innocent and it is up for the jury to decide.
what scares me is that the religious right wants everyone to think this is a christian country and they attack blacks, jews, gays, feminists, muslims and tourists.
I know several good hearted muslims and I know of several evil biblethumpers. Our founding fathers made it clear that they didn't want the US to be a christian nation.
our country needs to let go of the bible and the koran and remember they were written by man.....not god
Posted by trinitytim on September 1, 2007 at 11:42 p.m. (Suggest removal)
father,
Good joke. It made your point very well.
As I said earlier, time will tell but I would remind you that ICE has a detainer on these two so even if they were to be released on the state charges, the feds would wisk them away to federal prison.
My experience tells me that they have good reason to NOT let these guys get back into society. But, I repeat, Time will tell. I remind you that federal indictments are not handed down for fireworks violations. Again based on my experience.
Posted by hawneena on September 1, 2007 at 11:45 p.m. (Suggest removal)
Father_of_3, I don't remember reading anywhere about the exact contents of the trunk. It seems like every article has had variations on what all was in there. All anyone mentions is either pipe bombs or fireworks. The stories appear to change back and forth. It is quite confusing.
Has anyone read an accurate account of the trunk contents?
Posted by Father_of_3 on September 1, 2007 at 11:46 p.m. (Suggest removal)
Good job Jammer, I wanted to see if anyone was going to say they had shot at S&S or Top Gun recently. Do you remember RPM on Johns Isl.? I used to sell them ammo, mil. trip flares and smokes.
Jammer, if you say you have inside info that's great. If these men are guilty and I don't know they are not, I hope they put them under the jail. Actually I rather see them taken out and severly beaten.
HOWEVER... it would be AGAINST everything we stand for to "severly beat" anyone BEFORE they have been tried!
Every profession has bad apples, there are over zealous people in every profession. I WOULD NOT HAVE HAD ANY PROBLEM with what has taken place if the ones in authority had come out and said "Yes, we found (fill in the blank) in the trunk of the car." Instead we hear "pipebomb" then after the FBI turns it back to BCSD a FBI spokesman said "they had some stuff to make some decent homemade fireworks but NOT "bombs"." (I put the emphisis on "NOT")
"Experts" should be able to accuratly describe what was found "without comprimising prosecution or investigations."
Posted by trinitytim on September 1, 2007 at 11:51 p.m. (Suggest removal)
Stephaniem,
I have no intention of arguing with you about either the Christian or Muslim religion. I truly do wish you the best and I hope you find the peace that you deserve.
I will remind you that it was Muslims who attacked us both at home and overseas. It was not Christians flying those planes and I don't recall any incidents of Christians rioting or killing innocent people because of cartoons or articles written about Jesus.
I say again, if you have proof of illegal activity by anyone, inclduing police officers, I urge you to report it. You gain nothing by whining about it here on this board. If you don't have reasonable evidence to justify your position then you should not malign the character of another person police or civillian.
Posted by hawneena on September 2, 2007 at 12:12 a.m. (Suggest removal)
stephaniem, every word of the Bible is God breathed.
I am not going to preach to you,as you have every right to your own opinion.
Posted by hawneena on September 2, 2007 at 12:16 a.m. (Suggest removal)
Oh wow, my husband used to take me shooting at RPM. We sure do miss that place.
Posted by Mon_Kie on September 2, 2007 at 12:17 a.m. (Suggest removal)
I saw pictures of the two suspects in court.
The fun loving smiles from their mug shots are gone now.
Posted by Father_of_3 on September 2, 2007 at 12:17 a.m. (Suggest removal)
Got to go to bed...
I wwas just wondering...
Is it just me or did anyone else have a problem with someone saying "these men should have to prove they are innocent"?
Come on folks... that's a biggie and no one could say yea or nay?
Posted by jammer on September 2, 2007 at 12:18 a.m. (Suggest removal)
ppl use potassium nitrate to make gun powder, u can use stale urine and manure to create salt peter to make the powder blow a lot hotter n more volatile... and then u add pvc with caps and you have a homemade pipe bomb or accelerator/diversion... explosive device
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Potassium_n...
several of things on this link/page were found in the trunk
any manure will work, from cow you buy at walmart to ahemmm human
just out of curiosity who here rides around with a bag of human feces and a jug of urine in their trunk?
Posted by Father_of_3 on September 2, 2007 at 12:20 a.m. (Suggest removal)
The best thing about RPM was they sold these 2"x2" "exploding targets". When you hit them they went "booom"... I'm talking real cherry bomb boom NOT firecraker pop. They were great :) (but expensive)
Posted by trinitytim on September 2, 2007 at 12:21 a.m. (Suggest removal)
father,
I agree. No one has to prove their innocence. The government has to prove their guilt. Done that many many times.
Good Night.
Posted by jammer on September 2, 2007 at 12:22 a.m. (Suggest removal)
and yea btw I remember rpm, rarely went there though... JI used to be out of town... although I have a crazy uncle that's lived off of appolossa for several decades that the guys at rpm knew well
bedtime
Posted by Father_of_3 on September 2, 2007 at 12:35 a.m. (Suggest removal)
Jammer,
Maybe this will explain my position a little better.
Keep in mind this was before 9/11, Brady, Bill Clinton and even I think MADD were around.
In fact, at one time you could drink and drive when I was young... you just couldn't be drunk. Then you could'nt be drinking but others could have open containers. So I'm talking a ways back.
Back in my teens I played with the stuff you're talking about. I even panned and spooned stuff... I was very stupid. I continued to play with PVC up until I had my first son.
While you can make some good stuff from PVC, why would anyone mess with it when you would use galv. if you were serious about causing damage. Add a few pounds of 16d with duct tape and now we are talking "terrorist" material.
But PVC, that's why the FBI spokeman said they had stuff for fireworks, not bombs. Hey, maybe it was for a diversion, imagine if you set one off near a public place, you would be free to rob a bank?
Still, it's against the law and they should pay the price.
Posted by Father_of_3 on September 2, 2007 at 12:42 a.m. (Suggest removal)
Thanks for the discussion... seriously
Parting thought for the nite.
Was it Rodney that said "Can't we just all get along?"
ROFLMAO :) Really, I'm NOT a Troll... That would br my Mother in Law :)
G'nite
Posted by trinitytim on September 2, 2007 at 9:31 a.m. (Suggest removal)
Finally, a main stream media publication with the guts to tell the truth. See this from Investors Busniess Daily.
"Many of the things CAIR’s leaders claim and what we later learn from the factual record don’t square.
For instance, they’ve claimed that they get no foreign support and that their funding comes from local dues. In fact, the bulk of their support comes from two Arab countries tied to 9/11 — Saudi Arabia and the United Arab Emirates.
They’ve claimed that the size of the Muslim population in America is 7 million. In fact, it’s closer to 2 million.
They’ve claimed that they’re mainstream American patriots, when in fact they’ve told Muslim audiences that they want the Quran to replace the Constitution as the “highest authority in America.”
They’ve also claimed that they don’t support terrorism, even as three senior employees have been jailed in terror-related cases.
And now this. CAIR claims to be the voice of American Muslims. If so, it’s been an especially loud one. But it has lost its credibility to speak honestly for any legitimate cause."
Posted by jammer on September 2, 2007 at 10:28 a.m. (Suggest removal)
"They’ve claimed that the size of the Muslim population in America is 7 million. In fact, it’s closer to 2 million."
and I read yesterday where they only have barely a million that are of voting age, one of their marketers came up with the 7 million out of the thin air to try and match the black population numbers because the blacks had won over some politicians by vote numbers
the real number needs to be wide spread so people realize this is just a small movement trying to make itself look larger and can be dealt with accordingly
we must be reading some of the same websites tim...
we need to pay even closer attention now, the pres is talking a three day strike on Iran
btw thumbs up on the aussie article, where'd you find that?
Posted by trinitytim on September 2, 2007 at 10:41 a.m. (Suggest removal)
Morning Jammer,
I got the Aussie article from a newsletter published by a former commander of the 1st squadron 4th cavalry of the 1st Infantry Division, the Big Red One. That was the unit I served in when I was in combat in Vietnam. Membership is up in the high hundreds and includes a lot of guys presently serving with my former unit in Iraq. Back in June I went to a funeral of young 1/4 Cav soldier who was killed in Iraq.
I'll be back on later today. Right now I've got to head out to church. Talk to you all later.