Posted by MC29461 on November 19, 2007 at 3:08 a.m. (Suggest removal)

The harsh numbers speak for themselves and reflect what many already know about crime numbers for North Charleston.

Bishop Simmons correctly describes the problem when he said, "People don't care anymore, and when they don't care, they don't care who they hurt."

The 64 billion dollar question is how we get people to care about their fellow citizens again without turning this into another megabuck government program.

Posted by Mayor on November 19, 2007 at 5:56 a.m. (Suggest removal)

One of my members at my golf club, died in the back seat of a North Charleston police car. They wouldn't take him to the hospital, even though he was having a heart attack. They were harassing him, he was 62, had keys and money in his pocket, and they thought he escaped from Palmetto Hospital. He was Canadian, not crazy. His story of death at the hands of North Charleston police never hit the papers. Not only is crime in North Charleston rampant, their own are criminals for covering up this story. This man was not under arrest, just in the wrong place at the wrong time, namely North Charleston. Zumwalt, what do you have to say about this cover up?

Posted by poorboy on November 19, 2007 at 6:23 a.m. (Suggest removal)

AMAZING North Chuck!
You have touched on it GEECHIE. We have taken GOD, the ten commandments, and prayer out of our schools. Statistics prove that after this was done that crime started to rise. Iligitimate pregnancy, drugs, fatherless children & creation of the welfare state have created this. We are reaping what we have sown.

Posted by abitskeptical on November 19, 2007 at 6:30 a.m. (Suggest removal)

The North Charleston police, in general, have a reputation for acting like a bunch of Nazis on steroids. They seem to have no discernment about the various situations they are 'policing' and seem to have forgotten that they are PUBLIC SERVANTS.

They act in a way that seems intended to escalate a situation so that they can slap handcuffs on as many people as they can.

As a person who would not generally be profiled by law enforcement(white middle aged female post grad education) I can objectively say that the profiling done by this police force is despicable.

Posted by onedeep on November 19, 2007 at 6:47 a.m. (Suggest removal)

poorboy,

It has nothing to do with taking God out of the schools. Illegitimate pregnancy, drugs, and the welfare state can all much more easily be traced to one simple thing: Parents not taking responsibility for their children.

I have noticed that parents blame the school, the government, their neighborhood, TV, movies, music...the list goes on forever. But the true blame lies with the people who have the most influence - both positive and negative - on their child's life: Parents. And the secondary blame lies with you and me and society, for allowing this nonsense to go on for as long as it has.

Posted by mggoose2000 on November 19, 2007 at 6:55 a.m. (Suggest removal)

If you want answers to why things are so bad, read the Bible. I read in the papers and hear it on TV all the time that the book of Revelation is controversial and that it was written by a madman. But if you believe, you will see that all has been prophesized as it is happening today.

I'm just going to make sure that I'm ready for Jesus's return so I can be with him!

The non-believers have run God out of schools, the government and everywhere but in my home! As for me and my family, we serve the Lord! AMEN!

Posted by Diamondhead on November 19, 2007 at 7:02 a.m. (Suggest removal)

I wonder if there is a parallel between the high crime rate in those cities and the rise of liberalism in this country?

The biggest problem we’re dealing with in our society is this sense of entitlement to other people’s money. Whether it’s a criminal forcefully taking money or property from another person or frivolous lawsuits for pain and suffering, or the government taking wealth from citizens by way of taxation and redistributing it through various social programs, it all comes back to this sense of entitlement that liberals have. It’s this mentality “he’s got more than me, or I deserve more in life, or the world owes me something, or the government is there to take care of me or I’ve been socially wronged, or my people or culture have been wronged and it goes on and on and on with no end to it.

Posted by cubfan on November 19, 2007 at 7:03 a.m. (Suggest removal)

And people wonder why King's Grant does NOT want to be annexed into North Charleston...Sure there are some fabulous neighborhoods along Dorchester Rd that are in North Charleston, they had no choice. King's Grant has been around a lot longer and has always been a Summerville address, and they don't want to change that. Keith Summey needs to worry about the problems he HAS instead of trying to steal more land for North Charleston.

Posted by iculukin on November 19, 2007 at 7:15 a.m. (Suggest removal)

you're wrong onedeep! It absolutely has EVERYTHING to do with taking GOD out of the schools! When the "Fear of God" lost its meaning, is when this world starting going to pot! People want to say that the Bible is just another book and that we evolved from apes! Give me a break! Just because they act like a bunch of apes sure doesn't mean a thing. You don't have all this meaness and mayhem in homes of people who believe that God created this world and everything in it and He can take you out. I don't know about you but I can tell you this, I plan on sitting around that crystal sea one day with my loved ones. I feel sorry for those who won't be there. They think they already live in hell, they ain't see nothing yet!

Posted by Hey_U_Guys on November 19, 2007 at 7:37 a.m. (Suggest removal)

I don't believe for one second that it has ANYTHING to do with taking religion out of our schools.ICULUKIN: "You don't have all this meaness and mayhem in homes of people who believe that God created this world and everything in it and He can take you out." That is ABSOLUTELY untrue.

Posted by kaylee on November 19, 2007 at 8:03 a.m. (Suggest removal)

Not only have they removed God from schools and everywhere else. They new gold dollar coins no longer have " In God We Trust". You don't have to take them but the stores are trying to get ride of them and a lot of people are not accepting them. Know one fears anyone anymore. Parents use to fear God, children use to fear parents and there was a lot of respect towards each other. Not anymore. I was raised in church, raised my children in church, & they are raising my grandchildren in church. I would rather die beleieving in God & heaven, knowing I lived the best I could by Gods word. ( for the non beleivers) If there is no heaven I still did not waste my life I have a good life, and at least I wont be in lakes of fire for no end. My God is a powerful God that I have seen work mircales. And he gives me reason to live. We are in the last days . Our nation is falling. We have people from other countries comming over here to buy products & they get discounts for showing there passports. There money is worth more than our money in our own country.We are falling fast and quick & our goverment acts like he doesn't see it. The Bible teaches all of this And tells what is happing & what is going to happen.

Posted by inthelowcountry on November 19, 2007 at 8:03 a.m. (Suggest removal)

Yup, clearly the liberals are to blame for North Charleston's woes. I guess that's why 9 out of the top 10 safest cities on the list are located in (gasp) California, New York, New Jersey, and Massachusetts!

Posted by underdog on November 19, 2007 at 8:07 a.m. (Suggest removal)

poorboy - you are 100% correct. Let's return to the days of the Inquisition!

Posted by Early on November 19, 2007 at 8:12 a.m. (Suggest removal)

AND,,,,,we want to reduce the penalty for CRACK COCAINE!!!!
Highest expulsion and suspension rates!!!!
Highest crime rates!!!!!
Highest poverty levels!!!
Highest obesity!!!!!!
Failing schools!!!!!
Where are the churches, the NAACP and the 100 man march???

Posted by singleroni on November 19, 2007 at 8:16 a.m. (Suggest removal)

great job Keith - We can be number 1!! But what we gonna do, nothing is safe in North Charleston - another safe haven city. Want to protect the mexicans and let everything else go. Thank you. I feel safer already.

Posted by Scorpion on November 19, 2007 at 8:21 a.m. (Suggest removal)

I have to agree with onedeep. My sister is very religious, has 3 kids, and they get in trouble all the time. Why? She does not punish them, keep after them, teach them right from wrong. The only time she is involved in their lives is when the school calls to come get one because they are in trouble again, or a neighbor threatens to call the cops on one of them. She can quote all she wants from the Bible, but if she does not enforce any rules at home, they are going to grow up to someday be a mugshot picture on the front page of the newspaper.

However, I am an atheist. There is no religion taught in my house. But there is discipline (not beating, discipline), respect, love, and a constant reminder that rules WILL be followed. Neither of my daughters has gotten into any trouble worse than talking in class when they shouldn't have. That's it. Why? Because I stay involved in their lives, whether they want me to or not. And they know that is not going to change. They also know they can come to me about ANYTHING, and we'll work it out together. I don't punish for accidental behavior (a glass fell out of a slippery hand and broke) but WILL punish for "on-purpose" behavior (a mad hand threw the glass down and it broke). We rarely have any "on-purpose" behavior in my home, so it does not carry over into school or society. I'm not perfect, no one is, but parents should be parenting, and kids need to be taught that they don't have to like their parents, but they do have to respect them, and if they respect them they will respect others. If they have no respect for anyone else, they will do what they want, regardless of the pain they cause.
Plain and simple. If your kids are thugs, more than likely, it's either because you taught them to be, or they were taught it by someone else and you chose to look the other way and allow it.

Posted by Early on November 19, 2007 at 8:35 a.m. (Suggest removal)

Uh, scorpion, we the God fearing have agreed to give you and all the other atheist the entire state of Arizona. There you can fly your own flag, write your own constitution, not say your prayers and have your own currency. In exchange, we ask that you do not try and influence the MAJORITY of the good ole USA.
Your deed will be prepared shortly!

Posted by Hey_U_Guys on November 19, 2007 at 8:36 a.m. (Suggest removal)

Early: I thought Mississippi lead in Obesity??
Scorpion: Great post. I agree with you.

Posted by mac0cm4 on November 19, 2007 at 8:39 a.m. (Suggest removal)

Keep your religion to yourselves. Pray a little harder, maybe that'll make everything okay. (rolls eyes).

Posted by Early on November 19, 2007 at 8:46 a.m. (Suggest removal)

See Scorpion, you already have a couple of followers

Posted by astrofan on November 19, 2007 at 8:49 a.m. (Suggest removal)

Thank you Scorpion! You hit the proverbial nail on the head. My mother-in-law is a devout reader of the good book and is constantly talking about praying for someone. The sad thing is she has a 45 year old son who they let live with them to keep him from being in the street because he can't keep a job. I also have a 25 year old stepdaughter who seems to be on the same path. All you can do is your best for 18 years and hope for the best. Prayer indeed!

Posted by Hey_U_Guys on November 19, 2007 at 8:50 a.m. (Suggest removal)

Yes, all of us "Non-Believers" must be segregated from the "Believers" simply because we have not conformed to what they think is right.

Posted by CMLMADDOG on November 19, 2007 at 8:51 a.m. (Suggest removal)

Instead of complaining about the study and how misleading it is, why doesn't the city of North Charleston just say, "Ok, clearly we have a problem. How are we going to turn things around?"

Posted by misfit on November 19, 2007 at 9 a.m. (Suggest removal)

I hate to defend liberals, because I am socially conservative, and I am a Christian.

I do have to say though, How can there be a "parallel between the high crime rate in those cities and the rise of liberalism in this country?" Republicans have had the White House for 28 out of the last 40 years. And South Carolina is arguably the most conservative state in the country.

Posted by majorjohnson on November 19, 2007 at 9 a.m. (Suggest removal)

I'm 50 years old...when exactly was God in schools? We didn't pray at my school, we didn't do bible readings or sing hymns. My mother says she never said prayers at school in her school days either. This whole "they took God out of schools" thing is flat out made up from whole cloth. Maybe these people mean they took plays about Santa Clause out of school....that's a real god theme there...elves and magic and free gifts.

And "in god we trust" is on the new coins. It's on the edge instead of the face...that's another lie that's being spread by religious zealots. It's only been on bills since the 60's, before that it was the national motto "e pluribus unum," which no one even remembers anymore unless they are as old as me. Since the motto was changed in those years I suspect that the downturn occurred about the time that we went from a freedom of religion country to a socialist country with government trying to inject Christianity into everything...

In other words, it's not because we've removed god, it's because we started using government to proselytize and separate us. E pluribus unum could mean something to everyone, in god we trust was thrust on us by christian zealots to imply that non-christians are not real Americans.

Under God was inserted into the pledge in the 50's for the same reason.

Posted by Early on November 19, 2007 at 9:03 a.m. (Suggest removal)

Hey_U_Guys,,,I believe so. See, I believe in the 80/20 rule. That is when 80% of the population believe in something then the other 20% just shut the hell up, quit bitching and complaining. This rule applies to all things considered and not just religion. I think that the mentality of "that's OK" has just about done this country in. That when the 80% don't stand up and fight to maintain their rights, the 20% get stronger in voice until there is mayhem. So again,,, the entire state of Arizona is yours!!!!

Posted by froglegs on November 19, 2007 at 9:03 a.m. (Suggest removal)

Sumney get a hold on your city and police force. Your counterpart, Riley, is just pushing all the crime out of Charleston and into North Charleston. Everyday I read the paper on how the city police department is taking numerous initiatives to thwart crime while all we read about North Charleston is local businesses being robbed in the middle of the day and the fact there is no known leeds other than the criminal was able to escape.

Posted by seanf on November 19, 2007 at 9:07 a.m. (Suggest removal)

Why is everyone affraid to call it the way it is? What stands out between the Worst and Best? Google the Demographics! [WORST] Detroit was 82.70% African American, 12.26% white! [SAFEST] Mission Viejo, Calif is is 83.15% White, 1.15% African American!
Now I am no "rocket scientist" but the numbers speak for them self!

Posted by Early on November 19, 2007 at 9:09 a.m. (Suggest removal)

major, we prayed every morning in school and I'm the same age as you, and yes, it was public schools. We then went to a moment of silent prayer as not to offend others and then we dropped all together. We also said the pledge of allegiance, you know the words.

Posted by Early on November 19, 2007 at 9:11 a.m. (Suggest removal)

Ohhhh, papa jo jo seanf, you gonna have the wrath come down to ya!!!
Funny, I asked last week to post the low performing schools and,,,,,,no response.

Posted by Hey_U_Guys on November 19, 2007 at 9:12 a.m. (Suggest removal)

Oh, man. Not only is there a religious discussion (If you want to call it that) going on, now race has been added. The forum moderator is going to have quite the time today.

Posted by Brant on November 19, 2007 at 9:18 a.m. (Suggest removal)

I don't think it has a single, solitary thing to do with taking "God" out of the schools. Remember this thing called Seperation of Church and State? It was in all the papers in case you missed it. I don't know where to put the blame, but I know that whenever I visit Charleston, I deliberately avoid North Charleston. The one time I had to go there to get a muffler fixed some years ago, I was scared out of my wits, and that takes some doing. Are the cops in that area so impotent that they can't make it a safe area?
Or is it that the guns and drug trafficers are so prominent that nobody has the guts to stand up to them? It makes small town living look a lot more inviting.

Posted by Hey_U_Guys on November 19, 2007 at 9:22 a.m. (Suggest removal)

Early, why give us Arizona? Just send us off to a deserted island. Why keep the "Non-Believers" in the same country as the "Believers"? Do you know how ridiculous that is?! It really makes me angry that people, like you, think that just because people don't believe in what you, or a majority, believe in, they are WRONG. Everyone is entitled to their own beliefs. I don't believe in God, some people tell me I'm automatically going to a Hell in which I don't believe in. Who made Christians, Catholics, and other religious groups, the official judges of all humans? I do, however, believe in Charles Darwin's theory of Evolution. Let's see where I get shipped to for that comment.

Posted by cubfan on November 19, 2007 at 9:31 a.m. (Suggest removal)

My guess would be the Galapagos Islands.... :)

Posted by icbmman on November 19, 2007 at 9:32 a.m. (Suggest removal)

Ah yes, the typical Riley-basher (i.e. froglegs) comes out to place more blame on Riley, the evil-doer of the century, the manipulative dictator of Charleston, and the destructor of worlds.

That is so idiotic. If anything, more people need to be bashing Summey and the city council for how this city is becoming more dangerous. Good grief, it's been ranked more dangerous than Compton, CA, Philadelphia, and Kansas City! Folks, I've been to those places, and I was afraid for my life just driving through those areas. And all Summey can say is that the rankings don't mean anything to him. He has said many times in previous articles that crime statistics are not important. This is not just incompetance, it's indifference! Summey is nothing but a greedy bureaucrat who wants nothing more than his city to be the biggest city and the primary city in the region.

Citizens of the north city need to oust this man out of office so that real positive change can occur. I would suggest a Chas-N. Chas merger to consolidate governments and drastically change the implanted culture that is hurting your police and fire departments.

Posted by halfsheli on November 19, 2007 at 10:01 a.m. (Suggest removal)

scorpion --

that arizona offer might be a good idea afterall. then all of the hypocrites will not be there to cause harm and offer bad influences to your children, which seem to be of a better moral character than most of those who spend too much time worrying about inscriptions on coins instead of their own children.

Posted by Hey_U_Guys on November 19, 2007 at 10:04 a.m. (Suggest removal)

Nice!

Posted by MHA on November 19, 2007 at 10:05 a.m. (Suggest removal)

Religion is not the answer. It may be one way to the answer for some people, but certainly not for all. Teach your kids good morals and values by what ever means you choose. Then hold the ones that refuse to be decent human beings accountable for their actions. THAT is how you reduce crime.

I'm 45 and never prayed in schools... never saw anyone else pray in school. As I remember it, religion has not been allowed in schools since 1776. I don't quite understand all this "since they took god out of schools" crap.

If you want to live in an area that is almost 100% christian, it's really easy... we call it prison. I'd be willing to bet the majority of people that committed the crimes related to this article and its statistics would proclaim themselves to be god loving christians. Christians, like any other group, are just a cross section of society. Some good... some bad.

Crime is rising for two reasons:
1) Poor parenting is rampant
2) We are a "kindler-gentler" nation... touchy feely. Drug and sex offenders get off with nothing but probation. Murders serve time that can be measured in months.

If you don't teach your kids to be good human beings, and then you don't hold them accountable for their actions when they become adults... crime rises... simple.

It's rising everywhere. North Charleston and Charleston are both very bad right now, but they are no worse off than any other city in America.

Posted by proudmomma on November 19, 2007 at 10:07 a.m. (Suggest removal)

Brant- sorry that you had such a bad experience in N. Chuck, but I must tell you, the entire city isn't like that. You must have been in a really bad part.Like every city, there are parts to avoid and parts that are fine.

Posted by scnative4ever on November 19, 2007 at 10:17 a.m. (Suggest removal)

First thing that nees to happen is the police to do there job. Zumalt is an idiot. 2 years ago he said in an article there was no gang problem in NC. Now he thinks parents should be better parents. What a mooron. Has he looked at who is doing the crime. some of it is juvenilles but most of it is adults. The mayor and the chief are idiots. The police don't do their jobs. they are parked up in parking lots or at the boat landing in my neighborhood talking on cell phones. they don't respond to calls, they don't return phone calls or follow up, and there crime watch is a joke. for the chief to get on the tv and blame the time bars close and 14yr old kids on the street at 2am is an outrage. he needs to go. he is so out of touch it's not funny.

NC passes an ordinance about people pan handling on the street corner and they ride right by them and do nothing. everything is abouttalking the talk, but NOT walking the walk.

city counsel is more worried about pot belly pigs than the real problems. mayor is more worried about expanding to dorchester county than the problems closer to home. what a bunch of yahoos.

Posted by scnative4ever on November 19, 2007 at 10:26 a.m. (Suggest removal)

eliminate all black related crime in NC and it would be in the safest city list. Before you post let me go ahead and say," I am a racist for making that statement." save you the key strokes. Make all the excuses you want folks, call people racist for saying it....but blacks are responsible for most of the crime. eliminate black crime from the stats and we have very little to no crime in NC. I know minorities the truth is hard to swallow, but it goes down better with a glass of water. stop breeding criminals...raise your kids! get them off gangster wrap music. it's amazing blacks can recite all the words to filthy rap music but they can't pass a fourth grade reading test. what's up with that?

Posted by Hey_U_Guys on November 19, 2007 at 10:28 a.m. (Suggest removal)

Early, here is a link with alot of information regarding the schools in the area. Test scores, school report cards, etc. http://www.sciway.net/statistics/educati...

Posted by blondjes on November 19, 2007 at 10:33 a.m. (Suggest removal)

North charleston is the a-hole of the lowcountry, you people who live their can try to defend it all you want but for us who have lived their know better, the statistics don't lie

Posted by Hey_U_Guys on November 19, 2007 at 10:36 a.m. (Suggest removal)

Everyone: Click this site
http://northcharleston.areaconnect.com/c...

Posted by scnative4ever on November 19, 2007 at 10:36 a.m. (Suggest removal)

i have live in NC for all my life, and my house goes up for sale next week. I'm tired of it...i'm moving to the country to raise my kids. i have had enough. thanks mayor and chief for nothing.

Posted by Hey_U_Guys on November 19, 2007 at 10:37 a.m. (Suggest removal)

This is why I live in Summerville
http://northcharleston.areaconnect.com/c...

Posted by Hey_U_Guys on November 19, 2007 at 10:39 a.m. (Suggest removal)

Race stats: for those who care
http://northcharleston.areaconnect.com/s...

Posted by devster on November 19, 2007 at 10:51 a.m. (Suggest removal)

From http://www.city-data.com/

If we look purely at race, then I took a look at the top 10 of the most dangerous and the safest places:

Also note that the top ten dangerous areas also have some of the lowest median household incomes.

City Score Black White Hispanic

Dangerous:

1. Detroit 407.2 81.60% 10.50% 5%

2. St. Louis 406.2 51.20% 42.90% 2%

3. Flint, Mich. 381 53.30% 40% 3%

4. Oakland, Calif. 338.9 35.70% 23.50% 21.90%

5. Camden, N.J. 323.8 53.30% 7.10% 38.80%

6. Birmingham, Ala. 268.8 73.50% 23.50% 1.60%

7. North Charleston 254.3 49.40% 43.20% 4.00%

8. Memphis, Tenn. 245.6 61.40% 33.30% 3.00%

9. Richmond, Calif. 245.1 57.20% 37.70% 2.60%

10. Cleveland 244.4 51% 38.80% 7.30%

Safest:

1. Mission Viejo, Calif. -82.1 1% 76% 12.10%

2. Clarkstown, N.Y. -81 7.90% 76% 6.90%

3. Brick Township, N.J. -78.7 NO DATA

4. Amherst, N.Y. -75.4 3.90% 88.40% 1.40%

5. Sugar Land, Texas -75.4 5.20% 60.80% 8.00%

6. Colonie, N.Y. -74.6 3.50% 90.70% 1.60%

7. Thousand Oaks, Calif. -73.8 1.10% 77.70% 13.10%

8. Newton, Mass. -73.5 2.00% 86.40% 2.50%

9. Toms River Township, N.J. -72.7 1.80% 90.10% 4.60%

10. Lake Forest, Calif. -71.7 1.80% 66.70% 18.60%

11. Irvine, Calif. -71.1 1.40% 57.00% 7.40%

Posted by RockWolf on November 19, 2007 at 10:58 a.m. (Suggest removal)

I'm sure the NCPD would accept volunteers to go into he "warzone" at anytime. As far as the mayor, you keep re-electing him! If I was him, I'd take that as a mandate to keep swinging these land and business deals. Also, continue the containment strategy and let all the bad guys kill each other. Is this not what you want? Similarly, I don't see any protests regarding the increasing prop taxes and outrageous sales tax. Doesn't anyone care anymore?

Posted by halfsheli on November 19, 2007 at 11:09 a.m. (Suggest removal)

John Adams said in 1798, "Our Constitution was made only for a religious and moral people. It is wholly inadequate for the government of any other,"

Yes religious AND moral -- they don't have to be one in the same. Being moral does not make one religious and being religious doesn't make one moral. Every now and then someone gets lucky and is both.

Posted by whycantitbebetterhere on November 19, 2007 at 11:11 a.m. (Suggest removal)

Here's your problem in NC:

Renter-occupied housing units. 15962 53.59% of total.

Who owns this crap and doesn't take care of it? City council needs to put the screws to the owners of rental property.

This all used to be downtown - now it is here, and it needs to be dealt with.

Posted by singleroni on November 19, 2007 at 11:20 a.m. (Suggest removal)

bet if you check the rental property is ownewd by the mayor and his cronies. Alot of slum lords in nc. Born and raised there but speed through when I am forced to go there now. only way to raise the level in nc is by dragging other area into the mix and dragging them down .

Posted by majorjohnson on November 19, 2007 at 11:21 a.m. (Suggest removal)

I don't know what constitution tripsa reads, but "endowed with rights from their Creator" is not in my copy, nor is any other reference to a creator. It's in my copy of the Declaration of Independence, but that merely stated our intention to remove ourselves from Great Britain. It has nothing to do with the constitution, the bill of rights or anything to do with your life in the United States of America.

As far as the ten commandments, just how does teaching kids to put no god before me, don't worship graven images or worship on the sabbath have to do with crime, and if you aren't supposed to kneel to graven images what are all those crosses with Jesus nailed to them doing in churches, and which sabbath (Friday, Saturday and Sunday are all sabbaths in different sects of Christianity) and which 10 commandments? There are 3 versions in the Hebrew texts, Exodus 20:2-17, Exodus 34:12-26, and Deuteronomy 5:6-21. And why would you want your episcopal or jewish child being taught baptist or Pentacost prayers in school?

Prayer in school isn't about your child saying prayers in school...your child can pray any time he or she wants. It's about forcing your neighbors child to say your prayers.

Maybe we should just post Leviticus on school doors.

Posted by juniemoon1957 on November 19, 2007 at 11:21 a.m. (Suggest removal)

Oh me. I am 50 as well. We prayed first thing every AM. Read a Bible verse or two. Said the Pledge of Allegiance, went to "music" class, sang patriotic songs and religious songs. Small rural school. Everyone knew everyone. Fear of getting a paddling, missing recess, kept us all in line. If we misplaced a meal ticket we were fed anyway. Whether you had money or not, you were fed. If you missed the bus, one of the teachers or another bus took you home. Things are not the way they used to be. Sad.

Posted by Reader on November 19, 2007 at 11:45 a.m. (Suggest removal)

MajorJohnson - Excellent. I was just about to post the same thing about the Constitution. It is really shocking how few people know what soundbite comes from what document when they want to argue about Constitional rights.

Posted by Reader on November 19, 2007 at 11:46 a.m. (Suggest removal)

That should have said "Constitutional." I wish these boards had a spellcheck feature.

Posted by eyfigueroa on November 19, 2007 at 11:48 a.m. (Suggest removal)

... who spend too much time worrying about inscriptions on coins instead of their own children. PREACH Halfsheli! PREACH!

majorjohnson: you will NEVER get a cogent argument to your post from many on this board. what you say is soooooooooo true. however I believe in GOD and it GALLS me when so-called Christians throw up the Bible as the end all, yet couldn't for the life of you discuss the the true basis for the founding of this nation or the constitution that was drawn up to protect certain inalienable rights of all citizens.

Posted by oceandestination on November 19, 2007 at 11:51 a.m. (Suggest removal)

singleroni.... I checked what you posed above... rental property being owned my the Mayor and his Cronies... well I don't know who his cronies are, but if you check with Charleston County, he DOESN'T own any other property than his house.... Maybe you shouldn't spew propaganda, you should check your facts, unless you don't care about being factual, only care about telling falsehoods...
here is an interesting statistic... Memphis, Tenn is ranked #8 (safer than North Charleston's Rating) yet in 2006 they had 160 homicides and North Charleston had 29... yet North Charleston is ranked more dangerous... I don't believe this ranking has merit.

Posted by Early on November 19, 2007 at 11:58 a.m. (Suggest removal)

I'm with you juniemoon, me too!!!
in school we said prayers and in the military we said prayers then to be politically correct, silent moment.
I strongly feel for a majority, when this practice left the schools, things turned worse

Posted by icbmman on November 19, 2007 at 12:05 p.m. (Suggest removal)

Well, now I see the agenda that spews from a few of majorjohnson's and MHA's posts, and it all makes sense now. Major, the Declaration of Independence is the FOUNDING DOCUMENT of this country, not to just dissolve political bands with Britain, but also to show "...That these United Colonies are, and of Right ought to be, Free and Independent States..." In other words, the colonies became their own country, because they believed they had rights given by a Creator.

In the Constitution, the first amendment states that "Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion...", but there is another part of the amendment that you atheists and agnostics conveniently forget: "...or prohibiting the free exercise thereof..." FREE EXERCISE. In other words, if one wants to say a prayer in a public facility or meeting or school, he/she has EVERY RIGHT to do so! Even if it is school-led, it is not an establishment of a religion, it is a tradition passed down from our forefathers.

MHA and major both, you need some history lessons instead of reading the revisionist tripe you must read today. Many schools in the colonies were in the same building as the churches! Christian prayer was given at the beginning of school days, and harsh discipline was administered to kids who misbehaved.

Well, I'm way off-topic, but it is true that since the 60s, crime has dramatically been increasing as we continue to ignore our nation's foundations. To deny this basic premise wreaks of obtuseness.

Posted by eyfigueroa on November 19, 2007 at 12:08 p.m. (Suggest removal)

SCNATIVE: please enlighten us as to what you propose we do with all these black people that are committing most of the crimes? what do we do with the black females that BREED? should we spay them?

this article addresses the serious problem of rising crime rates in North Charleston. Since you've obviously found the root of the problems, black animals (ooops women) breeding, pray tell offer the rest of us some of your wisdom as to how must this horrific problem can be solved...

Posted by Early on November 19, 2007 at 12:10 p.m. (Suggest removal)

RACE is not the blame, look at Ravenel or Hollywood where the dominate race is black. These folks don't have the same crime rate as NC. What is the difference? Look at the churches in these areas as well. Drive by on a Sunday and folks are parked out in the street because the parking lot is full, you have your answer!!!!

Posted by eyfigueroa on November 19, 2007 at 12:19 p.m. (Suggest removal)

icbmann: am I to surmise from your post that the constitution gives you the 'right' to impose your own moral beliefs upon those such as myself and others who may not believe as you do?

I wonder, would you be so inclined to allow a Jewish, Muslim or Buddhist prayer being said every morning before class. Or is it your understanding that only Christianity should be proselytized in our public forums, schools, etc.

I do agree that the moral compass of many Americans seems to be broken. That fear and respect has been replaced with antipathy and belligerence.

But to say that the lack of Christianity being forced fed into our children is the reason for the decline is at best naive and at worst irrational.

Posted by Early on November 19, 2007 at 12:21 p.m. (Suggest removal)

tripsa, these folks you mention are about as confused as an illegal immigrant in a traffic circle, good luck trying to bring the truth to them.

Posted by Hey_U_Guys on November 19, 2007 at 12:23 p.m. (Suggest removal)

icbmman: I do not believe in God, but I have no problem with religion in schools, as long as everything is kept elective and not madatory. When I was in high school there used to be a group of kids that gathered around the flagpole and said prayers in the morning. We also said the pledge of allegiance and had a moment of silence. Kids that didn't want to say the pledge, for whatever reason, didn't have to. It was optional, as it should be. As for the moment of silence, you can think about whatever you want to during that time, you don't necessarily have to pray. I don't really see the harm in any of these things being in the school. But like I said, make them optional.

Posted by sjmehlhose on November 19, 2007 at 12:27 p.m. (Suggest removal)

The fool hath said in his heart, There is no God. They are corrupt, they have done abominable works, there is none that doeth good.
Psalms 14:1

Posted by USC_Alumni on November 19, 2007 at 12:27 p.m. (Suggest removal)

I was born and raised in North Charleston, but I live in Atlanta now. North Charleston has gone down rapidly due to bad local government, a bad police force, and some of the worst schools in the nation. I come home to visit friends and relatives, and to be honest I feel safer in Atlanta than I do North Charleston.

People always ask me when I'm going to return home. I tell them probably never. I do miss the fishing, the crabbing, the beaches, and all of the beauty that the lowcountry provides. However, when compared to like cities with like populations; the Charleston area is lacking in job oppurtunities, good local government, good schools, and the ability to compete.

Posted by pelicanwoman on November 19, 2007 at 12:29 p.m. (Suggest removal)

juniemoon- I grew up back then, too, in a small rural Midwestern town. Two major differences from then- hardly anyone was living with just one parent, and people were not so involved in drugs- which is the basis for so much of the crime today.

oceandestination- I used to live just outside of Memphis. Perhaps the stats are based on a percentage- Memphis has a much larger population than North Charleston.

Posted by Early on November 19, 2007 at 12:30 p.m. (Suggest removal)

eyfiguero, what he was trying to say is that Christianity was the "founding" religion and we based our constitution, our currency, our pledge, our national anthem, our legal system (put your hand on the bible and raise your right hand) and many other things upon that religion, what part of that don't you get? Force upon, I don't think so. I personally believe that our entire nation should go back to the basics and be like Australia when the Prime Minister in fact and in short told all that did not believe in the foundation of their country which included Christianity, to pack up and leave. In other words, "Don't let the door hit ya where the good Lord split ya" !!!!

Posted by sjmehlhose on November 19, 2007 at 12:36 p.m. (Suggest removal)

This is why all the atheists feel threatened by a simple Bible quote or a believer making reference to God:
"And this is the condemnation, that light is come into the world, and men loved darkness rather than light, because their deeds were evil. For every one that doeth evil hateth the light, neither cometh to the light, lest his deeds should be reproved." John 3:19-20

Posted by USC_Alumni on November 19, 2007 at 12:40 p.m. (Suggest removal)

Religion has nothing to do with why North Charleston is in the shape it's in. There are PLENTY of churchs in North Charleston. Taking God out of school has nothing to do with it. It's due to bad local government, bad planning for the future, the inability to attract business and retain the ones they have. And what's so sad is that the residents of North Charleston keeps re-electing the same bad local leaders.

To blame a lack of religion on why North Charleston suffers is backwards. If North Charleston all of a sudden becomes the most relegious place on earth, the problems will still exist, and continue to grow.

Posted by icbmman on November 19, 2007 at 12:41 p.m. (Suggest removal)

eyfigueroa, traditionally, it has been the Christian prayer that has been given, because like it or not, this nation was founded by Christians. If somebody is Jewish or Buddhist, they don't have to pray if a prayer is given. It shouldn't be mandatory. I think Hey_U_Guys has a point in allowing a moment of silence, and I think I could compromise with that. The Pledge of Allegiance? Sorry, the pledge has "under God", and the majority of the public believes that we live on this earth "under God". The phrase should stay in the pledge.

However, if a child brings a Bible to school, or say grace in the cafeteria, or starts their own Bible club, he/she should not be infringed, yet that is exactly what happens every day in public schools. According to the Constitution, that is flat-out wrong.

Posted by Hey_U_Guys on November 19, 2007 at 12:42 p.m. (Suggest removal)

sjmehlhose: Not every atheist feels threatened by thses things. SOME atheists believe that everyone has a right to their own beliefs and views.

Now, you do get the hard core atheists that hate everyone and everything associated with the Bible. THOSE are the people that you speak of.

Posted by icbmman on November 19, 2007 at 12:46 p.m. (Suggest removal)

I'm in complete agreement with USC_Alumni. Crime needs to be deterred in this city, and the government continues to virtually ignore the problem. People, look at Summey the mayor said himself, and it should be perfectly clear: he doesn't care! All he wants is more money, land, power, and prestige for his suburban city to make it the primary and largest city in the metro area. This is just blatant incompetancy!!

Summey and most of the council need to be voted out of office, and the city should merge with Charleston to form a consolidated, more functional city. Chas is going to change its fire department, so maybe a consolidation would help transform N. Chas' police. Changes like this need to be done if the north area wants to be considered safe again.

Posted by exorcist_pencocky on November 19, 2007 at 12:47 p.m. (Suggest removal)

To protect the people, perhaps a large fence surrounding the city, no one in and no one out, would solve the problem. Crime would drop to allmost nothing throughout the Lowcounty.

Posted by eyfigueroa on November 19, 2007 at 12:50 p.m. (Suggest removal)

James Madison, 1789-JUN-7 "The Civil Rights of none shall be abridged on account of religious belief or worship, nor shall any national religion be established, nor shall the full and equal rights of conscience be in any manner, nor on any pretext infringed. No state shall violate the equal rights of conscience or the freedom of the press, or the trial by jury in criminal cases."

EARLY: in the courtroom, you are not forced to swear on the bible. quakers, for example do not swear to anything or anyone. you may affirm that you are speaking the truth.

ANOTHER EXAMPLE: There is one other direct bow to religion in the original Constitution, and it is a bit obtuse. The Presidential Oath of Office is codified in the Constitution in this way:I do solemnly swear (or affirm) that I will faithfully execute the Office of President of the United States, and will to the best of my Ability, preserve, protect and defend the Constitution of the United States.

Again, the reference might be obtuse, but it is the inclusion of language in the oath that allows an incoming President to swear or affirm the oath. This text has been described both as a way of accommodating those religious persons for whom "swearing" was forbidden, and as a way for the unreligious to take the oath with the same force of personal responsibility that swearing would have for a religious person. Either way, the alternate text attempts to make the oath all-inclusive and religion-neutral.

BTW: australia was founded as a penal colony of Great Britain. religion had nothing to do with other than what Britain gave to it. the PM was referring to the issue of the marked increase of legal/illegal immigration and the lack of assimilation of said immigrants. he conveniently forgets that the aborigines of australia did not believe in christianity and are not 'immigrants'. i actually saw and read the transcript of said speech by the PM. did you?

Posted by Hey_U_Guys on November 19, 2007 at 12:51 p.m. (Suggest removal)

Nobody forces the kids in school to say the pledge. I was one of the kids that said the pledge, but I left out the "under God" part. The pledge is a beautiful things, and for people to get rid of it in schools because of two words, is a little crazy. They did away with the Darwin's Evolution classes my senior year. Obviously people had a problem with that being in schools too. We shouldn't hinder our children's learning of these things because WE, the parents, don't believe in them. What's wrong with letting our kids decide what they believe or don't believe in?? If they offered a Religion course in school, and my child was old enough to make the decision of taking it or not, I wouldn't sway him one way or another. That's his choice. My husband was raised in a religious home. Him and I never fight over religion. We have adult discussions about it. I have lots of questions that I always ask him about it. I'm willing to learn what his belief is all about because I'm interested. I may not believe in it, but I think the stories around the religion are interesting. My child can choose whether or not to believe in God. We're not going to pressure him one way or another. I just wish more people felt this way.

Posted by seanf on November 19, 2007 at 12:53 p.m. (Suggest removal)

BIBLE BELT BS!!

Most of these comments are blaming the lack of God in the system. So God turns a blind eye to a child getting shot because he's mad at the public school's lack of prayer?

Wake up and smell the gunpower everyone! It boils down to one word "Opportunity." What is easier? Getting an education, working hard for the better things in life or getting a gun and taking it?

This BS with blaming everyone else is crap. If you have SH*T for parents who are sitting on their fat overweight A*S's collecting Welfare, mass producing children and burdening the cities with their "I need more help" BS we are all done for! What this the sum of the equation?

Education + hard work = safety, happiness and grand children.

Dumb as rock parents + guns, drugs and lasyness = The WORST on the list nationwide.

Posted by Early on November 19, 2007 at 12:56 p.m. (Suggest removal)

Hey folks, great recipe for the holiday period.
Thought this may break the pace a little!!!!

1 pound jumbo lump crabmeat, free of shells
1 cup grated pepper jack cheese
3/4 cup mayonnaise
1/4 cup grated Parmesan
1/4 cup green onions, minced, optional
5 to 6 roasted garlic cloves or 2 cloves minced
3 tablespoons Worcestershire sauce
2 tablespoons fresh lemon or lime juice
1 teaspoon hot pepper sauce
1/2 teaspoon dry mustard
Salt and pepper

Preheat oven to 325 degrees F.
Combine all of the ingredients in a casserole and gently stir until thoroughly mixed. Bake for 40 minutes. Serve hot with crackers or toast points.

Posted by exorcist_pencocky on November 19, 2007 at 12:59 p.m. (Suggest removal)

Hey icmbman - When Hell freezes over!!!

Posted by juniemoon1957 on November 19, 2007 at 1 p.m. (Suggest removal)

Pelicanwoman....I know. I can only think of one family that did not have two parents. The mother died in an auto-mobile accident....but....the father did well by them. They grew up, not in trouble. Thier father owned a gas station and they WORKED....in the gas station. Most mother's were stay at home mothers. All the black children had two parents. One set of them had both parents working. Thier father worked with my father, we were all in the band, and they would ride home with us after practice so their father could pick them up. On occasion, on away games they spent the night. Was lots of fun.

Posted by juniemoon1957 on November 19, 2007 at 1:02 p.m. (Suggest removal)

Can you use chives in that recipe? I have plenty left over from the summer....and plenty of thyme/rosemary.

Posted by Early on November 19, 2007 at 1:03 p.m. (Suggest removal)

Yes I saw the article and I stick by my post, he was comparing Muslims with Christians.
Does the president have his hand on a bible when swearing in?
Looks like you are grasping at straws eyfigueroa
Ever been in combat? I bet about half of the "no believers" would quickly find God if their life was in imminent danger!
seanf,/// Angry, party of one, your table is ready. lol

Posted by halfsheli on November 19, 2007 at 1:20 p.m. (Suggest removal)

You're right, tripsa, we can't rewrite history. Unfortunately. We must live with the actions of our ancestors. In many cases those actions are noble and worthy of repetition. However, often those actions were atrocious. Religious people have acted both ways. Moral people, on the other hand, have managed to omit the atrocities.

I fear you consider Biblical Law your absolute moral code. That's fine for you, but your obvious loathing for those of us who find our moral guidance in other venues spews forth from your mind and onto this post.

As for me, I admire those who find their morality and charity from their hearts, not a book -- any book.

The question at hand here is how to we end a tradition of violence and restore appreciation for everyone's "life, liberty, and pursuit of happiness". Some may choose to turn to the Bible. Some may turn to other religious texts. Some may simply turn to their own consciences.

I think the one factor that could be even more effective than your precious Bible is family. I may not believe in your God, but I do believe in the concept that the village raises the child. If our village does not come together and act, our children may become more lost.

Personally, I do not find solace in the quoting of Bible verses or the saying of prayers. The fact is that most people who perpetrate these crimes attend church and praise their "almighty lord and savior" often. They are clearly familiar with the concept of your God. What these (mostly) young people need is the guidance to accept that whoever delivers the message -- the Bible, a preacher, a teacher, a friend, or a relative -- they need the message of morality.

Posted by eyfigueroa on November 19, 2007 at 1:21 p.m. (Suggest removal)

early i'm not grasping at straws. the constitution is very clear. the oath of office gives the individual the CHOICE. every president sworn in have used the bible. all of them were christians. DUH!!! and every president from now on could very well be christians and they will do the same. that still doesn't negate my statements.

the constituion gives us the CHOICE. and regardless of what side of the religion spectrum you're on, CHOICE is what this nation is founded upon.

Now, answer this, are you inferring that if a US citizen isn't Christian that they MUST become one to be a true citizen or a good and moral person?

i've been in combat. Desert Storm, was not only shot at but we also housed prisoners of war. literally dug foxholes and slept in tents with soldiers, a jew, a buddhist, 3 christians, 2 catholics, an agnostic and 2 atheists. NOT ONE OF THOSE BRAVE PEOPLE changed their religion or grabbed one because of their fear. each one of them performed valiantly and i would trust them with my life. in fact i did. so early you can kiss my combat patch havin', medal wearin', flag wavin' combat veteran tail. 'no believers' perform surgery on you or a loved one, saved your home from a fire, arrested a criminal, taught your kids, manufactured the car you drive, fixed your whopper, i could go on!

grasping at straws indeed.

my point is, morality is defined as: conformity to the rules of right conduct; moral or virtuous conduct.
2. moral quality or character.
3. virtue in sexual matters; chastity.
4. a doctrine or system of morals.
5. moral instruction; a moral lesson, precept, discourse, or utterance.

morality is what is missing from today's generation of youth. be it stemmed from religion or other means.

the pathology of crime is varied and convuluted. simply stating god is out of the picture is far too simplistic.

Posted by eyfigueroa on November 19, 2007 at 1:24 p.m. (Suggest removal)

hey Early: that recipe sounds great, i'm going to try it for a get together this weekend.

Posted by Hey_U_Guys on November 19, 2007 at 1:27 p.m. (Suggest removal)

I'm going to try that crab recipe tonight. Sounds yummy!!

Posted by exorcist_pencocky on November 19, 2007 at 1:29 p.m. (Suggest removal)

icbmman - the city of charleston and the City of North Charleston will combine to form a larger city, when charleston collapses and North Charleston annexs them.

Posted by sjmehlhose on November 19, 2007 at 1:55 p.m. (Suggest removal)

By the way, every city that made it on the list is whining. Time to quit whining and do something about the problem.

Posted by reasonable on November 19, 2007 at 2:01 p.m. (Suggest removal)

Two comments:

1. So where in the Constitution or Declaration of Independence does it say anything about Jesus? All is see is "God" and "Creator", terms which say nothing regarding favoring any particular religion over another, or even any religion at all, since Creator could be Mother Nature, the big bang, Flying Spaghetti Monster, etc.

2. If liberalism is the problem, why do liberal nations like Sweden have low crime rates? Why don't Asheville, NC (the most liberal city in the south), and San Francisco (the most liberal city in the US, have worse crime rates than either Charleston or North Charleston?

Posted by sjmehlhose on November 19, 2007 at 2:13 p.m. (Suggest removal)

Probably because the liberals look the other way when a crime is committed, so the crimes don't show up on the statistics. SanFran=Sanctuary City for Criminals!

Posted by ccfromsc on November 19, 2007 at 2:44 p.m. (Suggest removal)

Anyone want a tour of North Charleston? I can show you the drug dealing houses that were there yesterday, last week, last month, six months ago, a year ago, three years ago, 5 years ago, 7 years ago, 10 years ago, 15 years ago... they are the same ones and are never busted. Tell me why?

1) These "kids" that are doing the crimes and the killings are the children of the crackheads from 20 yrs ago. A generation of druggie thugs has successfully been raised and now all of us reap the benefits.

2)Race and religion do pay a part. Face the facts here. Most of the areas are lived in by blacks. The whites only go in to buy drugs. Same thing with religion. Christianity is almost gone in the ghetto areas, being replaced by the Nation of Islam (Louis Farrakhan). Why do you think the children at Brentwood hate non-blacks so much?

3) The legal system, aka courts are a joke today. Anyone here ever been in one and watched what goes on? Irregardless of the drugs, you have many a person out on the streets that have robbed, beatened, murdered, raped and pillaged more than once and have been repeatedly released, only to go and do worse crimes than before. Anyone here ever been a victim? It is only when it happens to someone in a "priviledged" position that the courts seem to care.

Please give me your responses to this!

Posted by Missthang on November 19, 2007 at 2:45 p.m. (Suggest removal)

scnative.....crawl back into your mother's womb. You are a racist.

Posted by strong2000 on November 19, 2007 at 2:49 p.m. (Suggest removal)

Seanf & SCNative 4ever, Please Please forgive us black folk for teaching our kids to kill!! How stupid of us to forget to teach them how to bomb schools, kill their wives and unborn kids,molest their own kids, and most of all live in a trailer park with their kids while cooking meth!!!!!! How dumb of us!!!! But you know it's so funny how you're(whites) kids always want to be like our kids and did I mention how your daughters love to ride our sons!!!!!!!!!!

Posted by MHA on November 19, 2007 at 2:51 p.m. (Suggest removal)

Again I'll say that religion, or lack there if is not the problem here. The end result is that kids have to be raised properly and criminals need to be treated harshly. If your religion helps you do those things... great! They can also be accomplished without religion.

I've always found this joke about the hypocrisy of some christians to be quite funny:

http://retirementwithapurpose.com/jokes/...

Posted by Hey_U_Guys on November 19, 2007 at 2:54 p.m. (Suggest removal)

ccfromsc: I have been a victim. My ex-husband was arrested for ABWIK(Assault and Battery with Intent to Kill). Pretty harsh stuff. He was thrown into the detention center on Leeds Ave. We had a preliminary hearing and his bail was set at $50,000. But as most of you know, you can go across the street and get a surity bond for $5,000. The only reason he stayed in jail for the two weeks that he did, was because his parents kept him in there to teach him a lesson!!! When the actual court date came, the charges were dropped because the arresting officer DIDN'T show up!!!!!! Nice, right? The county only granted me a 3 month no-contact order from this guy. But they had no problem escorting him to our old home, WITHOUT MY KNOWLEDGE, to remove his belongings. I wasn't home, so he couldn't get in. I had changed the locks. They knew I was at my parents after work, so they drove him and his father, to my parents house, and asked me to please let them into my house. The whole incident was really really odd. This guy now has no criminal record and is a nurse. Yeah, that's who I want taking care of me!!!

Posted by Hey_U_Guys on November 19, 2007 at 2:56 p.m. (Suggest removal)

strong: not all white women love to ride your sons. I, for one, Do not!

Posted by Hey_U_Guys on November 19, 2007 at 2:57 p.m. (Suggest removal)

MHA: That's funny!!!

Posted by strong2000 on November 19, 2007 at 3 p.m. (Suggest removal)

Good, then that'll be one less mixed up kid that won't be made in the world.

Posted by SummerGirl on November 19, 2007 at 3:01 p.m. (Suggest removal)

The whole lack-of-prayer in schools excuse is ignorant. All people of all religions can pray anytime, anywhere...it's an internal mind function and impossible to stop. Pray on...knock yourselves out.

What IS possible to stop is government-mandated prayer, and that's what took place. Thank reason.

Posted by eyfigueroa on November 19, 2007 at 3:15 p.m. (Suggest removal)

strong2000: that was completely uncalled for. there are many children of mixed ethnicities (myself included) and you've insulted all of us. your words brought nothing to the conversation except to say that some people of color cannot enter into a cogent, thoughtful discourse on race. the problem with racism and bigotry is that it's on BOTH sides.

you were no better than scnative.

crime is running rampant in many a community. moral ambiguity, lack of strong parental involvement, and complacency/apathy are the root causes not race.

Posted by ThePhink on November 19, 2007 at 3:16 p.m. (Suggest removal)

We took God out of schools and put little boys in church. Guess what happened?

Posted by eyfigueroa on November 19, 2007 at 3:17 p.m. (Suggest removal)

mha: that joke was hilarious and spot on!

Posted by icbmman on November 19, 2007 at 3:17 p.m. (Suggest removal)

What was that? Did exorcist say something or was that a gnat?

Harpo, thanks for staying on topic and building on exactly what I was saying earlier. Not only does Summey question the validity of the report, he just dismisses it and any notion that acknowledges the danger of living in his city. He's not just arrogant, he's dispassionate and unmoved. He really lives in his own little reality. Where are the Riley bashers here? They should be bashing Summey with equal furor.

Posted by eyfigueroa on November 19, 2007 at 3:27 p.m. (Suggest removal)

icbmman: summey is doing what the citizens of north charleston obviously want him to do, ignore what he doesn't like to see. i mean, he keeps winning re-election right?

to be fair, summey is working hard to make north chalreston what charleston could have been, a strong economic powerhouse where industry would jump at the chance to locate. and being highly rated on this particular list will not go over well at the next chamber of commerce meeting.

unfortunately he and the council have not done enough to shore up the infrastructure or address the many issues facing north chas. such as crime, failing schools, etc.

Posted by exorcist_pencocky on November 19, 2007 at 3:31 p.m. (Suggest removal)

Hey_U_Guys - Did he say what I think he just said.

Posted by MHA on November 19, 2007 at 3:33 p.m. (Suggest removal)

Quoted: ""Those rankings have always put us up in a bad position," Mayor Keith Summey"

Um... I'm thinking it's the CRIME that put you in a bad position, not the rankings, statistics or numbers.

I usually bash the management of both cities at the same time :) If we actually had city management where I lived, I'm sure they'd be pathetic too. It's hard to find a motivated, qualified person for public serve now-a-days. Hell, if I was elected mayor in the low country, I'd get assassinated before I got anything accomplished.

Posted by exorcist_pencocky on November 19, 2007 at 3:35 p.m. (Suggest removal)

Strong 2000 that is.

Posted by PAO1 on November 19, 2007 at 3:38 p.m. (Suggest removal)

someone mentioned the new dollar coins do not have the words In God We Trust on them......the reader is incorrect, the new president dollar coins have motto engraved on the edge of the coin....not on the front or back surfaces.......turn the coin and edge and you will see the motto....

Posted by strong2000 on November 19, 2007 at 3:39 p.m. (Suggest removal)

Eyfigueroa, (some people of color cannot enter into a cogent, thoughtful discourse on race.)What does this comment say!! Just because you are 1% black doesn't give you any right to make a comment about "people of color". Parental involvement doesn't have anything to do with this problem because most of the people are grown men. What is your mixed opinion about these racist NC cops. Of course 99% of you don't have nothing to say, but their doing their job!!!! This situation has a lot to do with racism & God. How can parents be involved when the goverment has us working all the time? We can't even be off to enjoy the Holidays with our kids, daycare is so expensive, and now you can't say black people are taking all of the welfare money because the Mexicans have taking that over. Eyfigureoa, get your comments together and hit me back!!

Posted by Hey_U_Guys on November 19, 2007 at 3:43 p.m. (Suggest removal)

Exorcist: Yes, Yes he did. His comments are uncalled for, indeed.

Posted by strong2000 on November 19, 2007 at 3:43 p.m. (Suggest removal)

exorcist_pencocky it seems you guys can't handle the racist comments when the shoe is on the other foot!!!!!!!

Posted by exorcist_pencocky on November 19, 2007 at 3:54 p.m. (Suggest removal)

>>> ccfromsc - Anyone want a tour of North Charleston? I can show you the drug dealing houses that were there yesterday, last week, last month, six months ago, a year ago, three years ago, 5 years ago, 7 years ago, 10 years ago, 15 years ago... they are the same ones and are never busted. Tell me why? <<<

I tell you what ccfromsc, you say this is happening continously, that is a problem. Send me a list of addresses and I will check into why they have't stopped.

I imagine if I produced Colour 8x10 glossys of the deal going down, at the council at their meeting it would be hard to ignore.

Of course the city of charleston white boys might get their faces exposed. - Yes you are receiving fair warning, drive into the City of North Charleston to buy dope and you better comb your hair and smile.

Oh, maybe you should cover your liscense tag also.

Posted by flinsc on November 19, 2007 at 3:57 p.m. (Suggest removal)

It is all about money. I laugh at those people who are buying into the new communities in N. Charleston, spending 300K plus to have a N. Charleston address. Haha, hope you like when your property goes down.

Posted by exorcist_pencocky on November 19, 2007 at 4:04 p.m. (Suggest removal)

strong2000 - That was a racist comment you were trying to make?? I'm sorry I missed it, go ahead try again, I'll wait.

Posted by SCORPIO_11 on November 19, 2007 at 4:05 p.m. (Suggest removal)

LOOKS LIKE THIS MESSAGE BOARD IS BEGINNING TO CONFIRM OUR #7 RANKING........ PLEASE PEOPLE... COME TOGETHER, AND STAY TOGETHER. HELP ONE ANOTHER INSTEAD OF BRINGING EACH OTHER DOWN. DO IT IF NOT FOR YOURSELF'S.....FOR THE KIDS OF OUR CITY.

Posted by exorcist_pencocky on November 19, 2007 at 4:11 p.m. (Suggest removal)

>>> Posted by exorcist_pencocky on November 19, 2007 at 12:47 p.m. (Suggest removal)

To protect the people, perhaps a large fence surrounding the city, no one in and no one out, would solve the problem. Crime would drop to allmost nothing throughout the Lowcounty. <<<<

Gee icbmman, Still having trouble with those eyes, getting hard to read huh, must come from too much butt kissing - riley.

Posted by oceandestination on November 19, 2007 at 4:13 p.m. (Suggest removal)

I live in North Charleston and in one of those 400,000 dollar houses and I love it. All areas have crime and I can remember when I lived downtown getting my car broken into and robbed several times.... For all the haters of North Charleston, you have a right to your opinion. My family and friends all love it and we get to walk our dogs and have picnics in the new park, it is wonderful, in fact ride through Park Circle and you will see me riding my bike this afternoon like a lot of us do. The crime that takes place in North Charleston is typical of most communities. I know so many people like myself who have moved from Mt. Pleasant and love it here.
The truth of the matter is you can't make people value another human life. Kids these days don't have any regard for human life. How can you make them care? YOU CAN'T. We all need to pray that they start caring or this whole WORLD is in trouble.
People that are criticizing North Charleston think all of North Charleston is crime ridden when there are only a few select areas. The police are doing their jobs, they can't be everywhere at once. And why are you coming down so hard on Mayor Summey, he and his family had been victimized more that most, and yet he still loves his city. He is doing a great job and that is why we keep electing him! Say what you want about the city I call home, it won't make me love it any less.

Posted by greyrider on November 19, 2007 at 4:16 p.m. (Suggest removal)

Here's an interesting observation. Those of you who say that this has nothing to do with removing God from society have your list of what causes all of these problems. First of all, we're not talking about nutcases who follow "their own god" or who use the Bible to promote an agenda THEY came up with and they twist the Bible to endorse it. Most of the mainstream branches of Christianity (and the Jewish faith as well) have certain basic ideas about daily living that they agree on. In fact, I have noticed that many atheists agree with these principles. The ironic thing is, "your list" of causes are all situations that WERE CAUSED by a lack of moral principles in our society. I agree (as do most Christians) that DOCTRINE should not be taught in the classroom. But when you "teach" kids that God is not welcome, when the Ten Commandments cannot even be hung on a wall in silence, you are "teaching" the kids a message about right and wrong whether you like it or not.

Posted by icbmman on November 19, 2007 at 4:17 p.m. (Suggest removal)

eyfigueroa, I'll give you those points, but my point is that the north city is a suburb. It does not nor should it have the responsibility of attempting to become an economic powerhouse; the primary, central city is responsible for that. In actuality, if the idiotic bluebloods in the Chas city council weren't so pompous 35 years ago, the north city would not have been formed; it would've been annexed into a joint, unified city.

Considering that both cities have problems with different issues, I think a merger would benefit these areas. Besides, the north city is geographically a physical extension of Chas anyway.

Posted by strong2000 on November 19, 2007 at 4:18 p.m. (Suggest removal)

Exorict_pencocky, Was that a joke you were trying to make???I'm sorry I missed it, go ahead try again, I'll wait

Posted by MHA on November 19, 2007 at 4:27 p.m. (Suggest removal)

Posted by icbmman on November 19, 2007 at 4:17 p.m. (Suggest removal)

eyfigueroa, I'll give you those points, but my point is that the north city is a suburb. It does not nor should it have the responsibility of attempting to become an economic powerhouse; the primary, central city is responsible for that. In actuality, if the idiotic bluebloods in the Chas city council weren't so pompous 35 years ago, the north city would not have been formed; it would've been annexed into a joint, unified city.

Considering that both cities have problems with different issues, I think a merger would benefit these areas. Besides, the north city is geographically a physical extension of Chas anyway.

LOL...LOL... this is quite funny. Please tell me that was sarcasm, icbmman... please... if you tell me you were serious, I'll pee myself laughing!

Posted by seanf on November 19, 2007 at 6:31 p.m. (Suggest removal)

Strong2000

I take no offence to your comments at all. I agree with some but not all of them and I am in no way stereotyping. My point today was to turn the comments I was reading away from blaming every thing on everyone else. I do not believe in the idea that it's the "systems" fault for this and firmly believe that there is a problem in the inner cities that breeds this type of behavior. Every day I see kids with oversized shorts hanging down, baseball caps on sideways and mostly just standing around in groups. There is no employment opportunity available to these people as no one would hire them, just crime to all, white or black. It's not a black problem it’s a problem for all that has affected the community as a whole.

If parents and not aunts or grandmothers were raising these kids and the law was more forceful with crime and punishment, I think many of this would cure itself. I don't think the court should condemn these kids to jail the first time but instead house them overnight in jail and have a judge inform them "either go to school and get good grades or go back to jail." [for non violent crimes only] Placing kids in jail serves no purpose other then to teach them how to be a criminal.

It's too late after a felony conviction for any real employment in life but someone who is just starting in crime may see the light. The numbers and statistics are not racist they are facts. On the other hand your comments were racist and that attitude will be passed down to your sons and daughters. I did not grow up here, but did grow up in a melding pot of people and I enjoy all cultures as racism was never an issue.

In closing, try and listen to John Lennon's song "Imagine."

Posted by lighty on November 19, 2007 at 7:40 p.m. (Suggest removal)

I will tell you some of the reasons, from recent experience. I was robbed at gunpoint recently while leaving my job. I called 911, no answer, I called again, no answer, finally on the 3rd call it was answered. The dispatcher called me back and told me to step outside that the officers were there, NO THEY WEREN'T. I set off my office alarms and lights and also my car alarm to get their attention. There was no report on this in the paper, nothing on the tv news either. With the clothing one of the robbers had on, someone had to have seen him leaving his home that day, and if the description had been made public maybe something would have come in about it. Tonight as I was ready to leave work, I called for a squad car to escort me out, the officer showed up and when I told him I needed to go to the bank, that by the way is IN the parking lot, he ROLLED his eyes and told me to please hurry. Now correct me if I am wrong, but don't WE pay their friggin salaries? Just to add another thing to this, I called today to see if there has been any developments and was put on hold then transferred 2 more times, only to get the detectives voice mail. Since the robbery, there has been NO CONTACT with the North Charleston police department to me at all. Protect and serve, pffffft.

Posted by flame711 on November 19, 2007 at 7:59 p.m. (Suggest removal)

I got my car stolen this time last year when I lived in.. you guessed it North Charlston, by guess who.. lol

Posted by Reader on November 19, 2007 at 8:27 p.m. (Suggest removal)

Icbmann wrote, "Major, the Declaration of Independence is the FOUNDING DOCUMENT of this country, not to just dissolve political bands with Britain, but also to show '...That these United Colonies are, and of Right ought to be, Free and Independent States...' In other words, the colonies became their own country, because they believed they had rights given by a Creator."

That is completely false. The Declaration of Independence said nothing about a United States. Quite to the contrary, it established each colony as independent of the others. It took over a decade to come around to the idea of a single united nation under the one and only founding document, the Constitution.

Icbmann continued, "In the Constitution, the first amendment states that 'Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion...', but there is another part of the amendment that you atheists and agnostics conveniently forget: '...or prohibiting the free exercise thereof...' FREE EXERCISE.