Superintendent Goodloe-Johnson speaks candidly before departure

Superintendent Maria Goodloe-Johnson's last day as head of the Charleston County School District is today. She's leaving the South after four years to take the top schools job on the opposite side of the country in Seattle.

What was her biggest accomplishment? Her biggest failure? How did race affect her superintendency?

She sat down with Post and Courier reporter Diette Courrégé this week to answer those and other questions and reflect on the last few years.

Wade Spees
The Post and Courier

Outgoing superintendent Maria Goodloe-Johnson, her husband, Bruce Johnson (right), and school district spokesman Jerry Adams pack her Calhoun Street office materials Wednesday.

Q: The district always seems to have some controversy. How difficult is it to be the superintendent here? And is the job more political here than other places?

A: I think the job is more political here than other places. I think it's a tough job wherever you go because of the responsibility and the quest that people want for change, and for change to be right now and to be yesterday. I don't think it's perpetual controversy. I think there are some people that like controversy, but what you have to really look at is, is the district continuing to move forward. ... I think it's more political here than I think it should be.

Q: You've had a divided board for most of your tenure, and you've said that not having a cohesive board makes your job more difficult. Is the school board you're leaving behind the kind of board you wished you'd always had?

A: The board I'm leaving behind is certainly a board that has less personal issues and more issues focused on kids, and that's what you want. The ultimate board that any superintendent would want is a board that all of the board members are focused on governance. They understand that they really need to develop and put in place policies that direct the superintendent so that the superintendent clearly knows what the expectations are around policy and he or she can run the organization effectively.

Q: You made history when you came here by not only being the first woman but by being the first black superintendent. How did your race affect your superintendency? Do you think that being black made it easier or more difficult to do your job?

A: From my perspective, I don't think race or gender for me was an issue. But I think other people treated me differently and said things and targeted things because of my race or who I was. But it didn't impact how I knew I needed to do the job.

Q: Do you think your race made it more difficult to do your job?

A: I'm not sure. I know it didn't make it easier, but I'm not sure that it made it harder. I guess I say that because the work itself was difficult because of the depth of the work and what had to be done, but I'm not sure. ... You're asking me if the fact that I was black, did people make issues of certain things that if I wasn't black they wouldn't have, and I say, absolutely. People made issues of things because of my race and said things relative to my race that were quite honestly bigoted and biased. So yes, so that definitely is an impact of me being black, but it didn't make my job harder or easier. It was a distraction, and if I didn't have that distraction, then I wouldn't have to deal with it. And I could've perhaps gone faster.

Q: You've lived in Texas, Colorado and Nebraska. How does Charleston compare?

A: It's by far the most segregated and racist, and I think that's a function of the South, too.

Q: How would you say the legacy of slavery, particularly in this community, affects the school district?

A: I think it had a dramatic impact that sometimes isn't seen. Because there's a lot of times I would say to my husband, 'That is plantation mentality.' And by that I mean that people tend to be too complacent. They sit back and allow things to happen to them, and that's slavery. I would tell people all the time, 'Slavery is over. Nobody is controlling you. Nobody is telling you what you can't have. Don't allow people to disrespect you and tell you what you can't have.' That's plantation mentality, and it's so obvious here. But I don't think people see it.

Q: What's an example?

A: Let's talk about failing schools. We should not be in a situation anywhere where kids are not given what they need because they don't have parents who have voice or who have political clout or come to school board meetings and make noise. We have a responsibility to ensure that poor kids, that black kids are educated well. We shouldn't have the kinds of divides that we do. And that's all about people not having voice. Just think about, if everybody had voice, how different the school district would be. Because people would not have sat back and settled for things. Or, people wouldn't allow for schools — why do we allow schools to fail for 10 years and then fight to keep the structure? Help! I just want to scream! Don't fight for failure. Fight for what's right for kids. Fight for excellence. Fight to be at the table to be a part of the conversation. Nobody is enslaved anymore. This is 2007. You can go and do anything you want to.

Q: So, you mean plantation mentality among black people but white people, too?

A: Absolutely. 'Well, you can't do this because I said so.' Wrong. I can do whatever I want to do as long as it's legal. You don't get to hold me back. And African-American folks need to speak up and be a part of the equation and say, 'That's not good enough.' Or 'We need this' or 'We need that.' It shouldn't be about who has voice, and I see so many things happen that I'm like, 'This is 2007. It's not appropriate.'

Q: Did you copyright the Charleston Plan for Excellence?

A: No.

Q: Do you plan to use it again?

A: Well, the strategy to write a strategic plan and to do my entry plan, yes, I'll use that process. And it might be called the Seattle Plan for Excellence. I don't know. But, no, I didn't copyright it. That wasn't the purpose.

Q: Equitable education. Equal means the same, equitable means giving people what they need. Rate on a scale of 1 to 10 where the district was in providing equitable education when you came in. Rate on a scale of 1 to 10 where the district is now. And talk about where you'd put those two numbers.

A: When I talk about equitable, I'm not just talking about per-pupil allocation because that's not how you look at equity. When I think about equity coming in and now, equitable resources coming in were about 60-40. And equity for me is schools throughout the system. ... If I think about where equitable funding now is for schools, I would say maybe 50-50, from the standpoint of providing more resources to what we call our capital schools — the schools that are in the worst conditions — and unsatisfactory schools compared to our excellent schools. ... But where we really need to be is at a much higher level, which is 100 percent equitable funding across the district, which would mean that schools get the services they need to serve the kids that they have. And that really plays out into a weighted student funding formula.

I think that all parents should have choice, but one thing that's clear is that I don't think that parents should have to 1) Wait in line on a waiting list to get into a good school to have a quality education for their child and 2) I don't think parents should have to transfer for them to feel like they're getting a quality education. To me, that translates to there's not equitable kinds of programs, activities, rigor of classes, after-school programs, whatever it might be. It's about all of those things at all of our schools. So that means schools are not equitable. Two years ago, we devised a schoolhouse model where we asked the question, 'What does every elementary, middle and high school need to provide quality education for their students?' We devised that, but we couldn't fund it. And to me, that's equitable resources. ...

Q: If it's 50-50 now, what would it take to get to 100 percent?

A: What it's really going to take is the state to come up with an equitable funding formula for the entire state because it's not just Charleston. There are 13 districts right now that are hoping to be held harmless as it relates to funding. We shouldn't be in that position. South Carolina should not be funding public schools based on 'minimally adequate.' I'm a mom. People don't want their kids to go to schools that are funded minimally adequate. They want their kids to go to schools that are well-funded. The state has to fix how they fund public schools, and if they don't, they're going to go bankrupt. Every year that I've been here, we've been in a position where we've analyzed, cut and reallocated money. So, we would have $10 million in unfunded mandates, we would cut $12 million to take care of the unfunded mandates, and then we're not even yet to what we know we need based on the data, the research and the kids that we serve to continue to maximize programs for early childhood, for overage kids for alternative programs, intervention, for tutoring. So we have this long list we can't fund. But we're still serving those kids, we still have schools that are unsatisfactory, but they're making progress. So if we want to have a quality education system, we have to fund it. And we can't have people saying, 'Well, don't raise the taxes.' How do we fund it if we don't get the funding we need from the state?

Q: What will be this district's eternal curse, the problem that won't go away?

A: I hope this problem does go away, and that's inequitable funding from the state level. But that really will be a curse. I mean, even in conversations with the state revenue department, they're already predicting a very negative outlook on funding education. So unless that changes ...

Q: What's your favorite memory from the past four years?

A: I have a lot of favorite memories. My favorite memories are always being with kids and when kids want to show me something or talk to me or they're real excited about something they learned. One of my favorite memories was this year when we got the MAP (Measures of Academic Progress test) results, and two years ago when we got good results on student improvement. That's what we work hard for, so those are always good memories.

Q: What's your biggest accomplishment?

A: I think instituting the Charleston Plan for Excellence, the standardized curriculum, the standardized benchmark assessment system, teacher coaches in classrooms, revamping special education ...

Q: What's your biggest?

A: Well maybe it's establishing the strategic plan because all of those accomplishments come with the establishment of the strategic plan that's working.

Q: What's your biggest failure?

A: I don't think I have any failures. I think I have lessons. And one of the biggest lessons is that in the reconstitution of Brentwood and Rivers, if we had planned that for a year, I think we would've had less issues of transition and change because people didn't want to change, so that just made it negative. And every time an issue came up about space or the gym or something someone didn't like, it was just a continual ongoing target. I think if there had been more time taken to plan and execute, maybe, I hope, it would've been less of a negative transition. Maybe not. I don't know. I think you still have things you don't expect. If we would've had a little bit more time, hopefully it would've been smoother. ... And the other piece is, we just needed to do something. It was just so bad that what we did, even with the negativity, was better than what we had. But I just think having more time to plan would've been better.

Q: If you could do one thing differently in the four years you've been superintendent, what would you do?

A: I think that planning and execution piece.

Q: What's something unresolved that you're leaving here that you'd like to see finished?

A: How the Rivers building will be used.

Q: What do you think overall of the media treatment of you during the past four years?

A: I think they've been good. And at times when they stepped out of line, I just let them know and dealt with it and it was done. So that was good.

Q: What do you hope your legacy will be here?

A: That I cared about all kids. That I created a very strong foundation that after I leave, that foundation will stick. And the system will continue to move forward.

Q: Maya, your daughter, would be ready for kindergarten in about three years. If you could've sent her to any Charleston County school, which one would you send her to?

A: I don't know. I have a whole list. I really believe in Montessori, but I also believe in Ashley River Creative Arts because that's the education I had — music, art, academics — and so Ashley River is a great school for that. Buist is also a great school. And Oakland is the school she would go to based on where we live. Those are the schools that were on my list to choose from, and I really didn't know. I would've been happy with any of those.

Q: What have you not been asked that you would want to talk about?

A: It's been a good time in Charleston. It's prepared me very well. I laugh because I remember (board member) Ray Toler talking about, 'I think you're moving from the frying pan to the fire.' Well, I thought, 'It couldn't be any hotter in Seattle than it was here.' I always believe that God prepares you for your next venture, and everything that happens is not about us. People think they are in control. I don't believe that. I believe God prepares you and he doesn't leave you. Charleston has prepared me well. And I'm looking forward to Seattle. And I can't imagine that there's going to be any challenge in Seattle that I haven't already been prepared for from being in Charleston County.

Q: Are you sad? You've said all along it's been bittersweet.

A: It is sad ... but it's a good sad. It's not an angry sad. I think it's a good sad because I'll miss a lot of people. But (my husband) Bruce's family is here. We have family here. So we'll always be back to visit.

Q: Do you think you'll follow what's going on here?

A: I don't think I'll have time. I'll always keep up just because I do from a national perspective, and I'll certainly be looking at what's going on when the PACT scores come out. But I won't keep up. I'll have a whole new chapter and lots of responsibilities and things to do in Seattle. And Lord knows we wouldn't want to get that confused.

Reach Diette Courrégé at 937-5546 or dcourrege@postandcourier.com.