Posted by ktrillo on July 26, 2007 at 6:53 a.m. (Suggest removal)

Are you kidding me? Let's grade our own test!!!!!

Posted by bhippey on July 26, 2007 at 7:44 a.m. (Suggest removal)

So let me get this straight. 5 weeks after this horrible tragedy they are now conducting a review. Why wasn't this done within the first week? Is it because of all the national attention that this has gotten? Is that why we are now doing what needed to be done prior? Why weren't these steps taken BEFORE this happened? It takes 9 men losing their lives and leaving behind heartbroken family members to take certain precautions to ensure that something like this doesn't happen? I'm sure the families love to know that their fallen heroes were pretty much test subjects. Doomed to fail. What do our tax dollars pay for again? Certainly not everything they are supposed to.

Posted by bickleseagrave on July 26, 2007 at 8:28 a.m. (Suggest removal)

Quote Post & Courier "The review will be led by Riley, Fire Chief Rusty Thomas and Police Chief Greg Mullen. The city plans to bring in four to six consultants, culled from a "very distinguished" group of fire service veterans from around the nation, Riley said."

So the Chief and the Mayor are going to investigate themselves with a group of their handpicked "Experts" . Just maybe the investigation should be conducted by an independent group since these people are involved, ya think.

Maybe Alan Brunacini would be a good chairperson!!

Posted by straightstream on July 26, 2007 at 8:29 a.m. (Suggest removal)

According to someone in the know this is but the first review. This action will provoke another review that's gaining steam. It actually serves to give the other review more teeth.

Posted by trm2105 on July 26, 2007 at 8:32 a.m. (Suggest removal)

Riley's Post Fire Protocal
(in order of priority of course)

1. Express heart felt sympathy to the families of lost loved-ones
2. Announce what a great idea it is to memorialize these deaths by dedicating a park in an unrelated real estate development where all firefighters and a their families can go for picnics.
3. Wait
4. Announce an investigation where the mayor and the fire chief get to decide how well their policies performed.
5. Continue to ignore the policies and procedures followed by the rest of the nation because the mayor and the chief did their own investigation.
6. Get re-elected because now all the firefighters and their families have a special place for picnics.

Posted by charlene68 on July 26, 2007 at 8:44 a.m. (Suggest removal)

It beats all I have ever seen, that is all Im going to say on that.

Posted by straightstream on July 26, 2007 at 8:52 a.m. (Suggest removal)

Yes, but now it spurs the call for an full inquiry from impartial people. The city screwed up here but it works for us.

Posted by newbattleaxe on July 26, 2007 at 9:28 a.m. (Suggest removal)

And, City of Charleston residents, watch your taxes go up yet again to fund yet another (two) of Little Joe's schemes!

Posted by bigbrotheriswatching on July 26, 2007 at 10:16 a.m. (Suggest removal)

Wait let me get this straight, WASN'T it Riley who tried to ridicule Candidate Gregorie when Gregorie suggested that an investigation be conducted by the city during Gregorie's press conferenece weeks ago? Matter of fact, the video of Joe's response is on this site! furthermorre, I agree with previous posters, there needs to be an INDEPENDENT investigation, not one governerned by the mayor and the fire chief. LASTLY, why didn't this reporter go get a statement from the Gregorie camp, much in the same manner the P&C staff gets a response from the Riley camp when they do a story from a Gregorie position? This paper needs to raise its standards, the bias displayed in it's stories is evident!

Posted by bigbrotheriswatching on July 26, 2007 at 10:16 a.m. (Suggest removal)

Wait let me get this straight, WASN'T it Riley who tried to ridicule Candidate Gregorie when Gregorie suggested that an investigation be conducted by the city during Gregorie's press conferenece weeks ago? Matter of fact, the video of Joe's response is on this site! Furthermore, I agree with previous posters, there needs to be an INDEPENDENT investigation, not one governerned by the mayor and the fire chief. LASTLY, why didn't this reporter go get a statement from the Gregorie camp, much in the same manner the P&C staff gets a response from the Riley camp when they do a story from a Gregorie position? This paper needs to raise its standards, the bias displayed in it's stories is evident!

Posted by robert8096 on July 26, 2007 at 11:14 a.m. (Suggest removal)

I agree that the Mayor and Chief should NOT be on the investigation committee. You good old boys should sit this one out.

Mayor heads up!!! This may cost you an election!

Posted by straightstream on July 26, 2007 at 11:18 a.m. (Suggest removal)

The mayor is nervous about all of this because it's all very public. While he will be reelected some of his core supporters, some of whom stop by the stations to express their thanks, are shocked at how he has handled things up to this point. These are people who VOTE, DONATE, and DEFEND the mayor.

Posted by diggerman on July 26, 2007 at 11:33 a.m. (Suggest removal)

I always thought the "buck" stopped at the top.

In my opinion Mayor Riley has failed miserably.His leadership leaves too many un-answered questions.

His answer to the problem is to investigate himself...give me a break.

It's time for Charleston voters to have their voices heard...at the voting booth.

May God bless the fallen firefighters and their families.

diggerman

Posted by lyfe1999 on July 26, 2007 at 12:17 p.m. (Suggest removal)

Yes, may God bless the families of the firefighters.
Yes, Gregorie said this should have happened weekes ago and criticized for it. Yes, the Mayor and Chief investigating themselves this long after the incident is political posturing because of the pressure he has been getting in this election year. I bet he did a poll that the public does not approve of his handling of the Fire Fighter Deaths. This is response to that poll. I am going to support Gregorie for mayor, and you should too. I check out his website, and get the right issue, doesn't seem to be afraid of the Riley Machine, and has spent $90,000 of his own money, not money from special interests. If you are outraged by this and other things in this city, then do something about and volunteer, raise money, and vote for Gregorie.

Posted by Fire_Inspector on July 26, 2007 at 12:40 p.m. (Suggest removal)

Indeed Al Brunacini (spelling?) would be an excellent choice. He turned the Phoenix FD into what is usually thought to be the best FD in the country.

Add a HIGH level NFPA person, like Russ Sanders

Spice it up with an Academic from Oklahoma, Maryland, or Eastern KY University that studies Fire full time.

Season with a representative of the SC State Fire Marshals office.

Complete with someone from a labor organization, like the IAFF or IBFF.

Serve with a side of several grad student interns to flesh out the report and do the scut work.

Let them see EVERYTHING. If the truth is bad, so be it!

Posted by bickleseagrave on July 26, 2007 at 2:09 p.m. (Suggest removal)

Maybe even Billy Goldfedder could help!!

Posted by straightstream on July 26, 2007 at 2:19 p.m. (Suggest removal)

Goldfedder doesn't deserve to be part of this-he's got issues of his own.

Vincent Dunn, Alan Brunacini, John Mittendorf and Paul Grimwood are great examples of people but they will come in later, after the city inquiry showcases the lack of objectivity.

Afterwards,a true panel will be formed to look at the disaster.

Posted by burton on July 26, 2007 at 3:06 p.m. (Suggest removal)

Get rid of King Riley and the Chief! Wake up Charleston voters! Don't think that King Riley is not going to run again if he wins this election! 30+ years in office! Aren't you tired of this guy? You keep electing him and that just gives him more ammo to think he can do anything he wants! Chief, please don't give anymore interviews!

"It is one thing for people to think you are a fool, it is another to open your mouth and remove all doubt!"

Posted by chief800 on July 26, 2007 at 4:04 p.m. (Suggest removal)

The investigation should be done by an independent panel of fire service personnel. The Mayor, Fire Chief and Police Chief should not sit in on the committee. In fact the Fire Chief should be placed on administrative leave w/pay and ordered not to have any contact with the stations or and fire personnel for the City of Charleston until the investigation is over and has been reviewed by the Mayor and made available to the public the same time it is handed to the Mayor.

I have one question "Who is to say that Brunacini, Dunn and Mittendorf are the experts?" Just because they write books does that mean they are experts? You can be an expert if you self proclaim you are one.

Look at it this way bring in people who can honestly and wholeheartly give an opinion on what should be corrected and move forward. Should Chief Thomas resign or retire ABSOLUTELY! Anyone with common sense and knowledge about how Charleston Fire Department operates knows that things are not right. The whole department needs an overhaul and its time to move forward.

For years there have been things going on in the department that has been overlooked. Look who are Battalion Chiefs. Look at the education of the command staff. Even though a book doesn't put out fires they sure do help.

The biggest mistake that ever happened was when the fire inspection bureau was taken out of the city fire department hands. BIG MISTAKE. So often the FD is overlooked in building department and the fire codes are not followed.

Chief Thomas as a Chief Officer you need to step aside during the investigation.

Posted by straightstream on July 26, 2007 at 4:36 p.m. (Suggest removal)

I say they are experts. So do many others and they have done a ton of work for investigatory bodies. At some point one or more will become invloved here.

Posted by charleytowngirl on July 26, 2007 at 7:37 p.m. (Suggest removal)

How in the HECK do you investigate yourself? Let a totally INDEPENDENT review board of experts review this tragedy so it does not happen again.

The more I read the sicker I feel. If the chief is on this review board, does he really think that is going to make him look better? I would not take the findings of a review board with the LEADER of this department on the board seriously! What's next? Are we going to let Al Parish investigate his own wrong doings?

Chief, you need to step out of this one....let the experts do an independent review so it can't be said down the road that the findings were "tainted"!

Posted by oldfric07 on July 26, 2007 at 10:21 p.m. (Suggest removal)

It's actually common to launch an investigation into yourself to ensure an outside agency doesn't force one on you. In this case, however, there's no chance an entity will be allowed to self-regulate after the death of nine brave men. The wait time was far too long and the independence of the board is compromised.

Posted by trm2105 on July 27, 2007 at 7:49 a.m. (Suggest removal)

I suggest that everyone who is opposed to this write the mayor's office and the fire chief requesting that they step aside in the investigation of this incident. They are OUR public servants and should do as the public wishes. They do not have the authority, or at the very least the approval, to as they wish in this case. Show them that we the people demand a truly independent investigation. After all, they are our public servants, they work for us!

Posted by easy on July 27, 2007 at 9:01 a.m. (Suggest removal)

BULL SH!T

Posted by Harpo on July 27, 2007 at 9:43 a.m. (Suggest removal)

Well, let them complete the investigation if
they want to. The NIST report will be out
soon and then we can compare the two. From
what I'm reading, it appears we need new
leadership and some serious reconstruction
and training for the Charleston fire
department. It all sounds like substantial
management goofs, too ... not just armchair
quarterbacking.

Why wait so long to conduct such an
investigation? It looks like they didn't
originally plan to do one and really smacks
of damage control.

What I've noticed is that most of what
comes out of this fire chief lately
has been eulogies and condolences and
praise .. but not much in the way of
"we're gonna change some things around
here to prevent another tragedy"
dialog. That's what I want to hear from
him.

Rusty, what is going to change in the
way you fight fires from now on, please?

Posted by trm2105 on July 27, 2007 at 2:31 p.m. (Suggest removal)

easy,

the second people make a distinction between themselves and their government is the moment when people have lost control of how they will be governed.

Posted by umperstilt on July 27, 2007 at 2:42 p.m. (Suggest removal)

Leave the chief alone! The Chief has his faults like all men. Hindsight is a real mother, and the real problem is that most of you critics couldn't fill half this man's shoes, and your using this tradgedy do get your blows in while you can. Personally I cant stand the Mayor, and i know for a fact that he didn't give two craps about the fireman until recently when he had to learn there names so he could use them at the funerals. Good job using the same speech too, it was really moving the 8th time I heard it. I'd be willing to bet he still doesn't know where all the stations are, except the ones he forced himself to make an apperance at. The Mayor is no leader, that I know. The next day the Feds were investigating, I think they can handle it, besides The Chief has a dept to run and a family of his own to comfort. I urge you to keep your comments confined to these web pages, because there are still grieving brothers out there who wouldn't think twice about sticking up for there kind.

Posted by Chasfire9 on July 27, 2007 at 6:04 p.m. (Suggest removal)

I think its very interesting that the 2 people that develop all policies and regulations for the department are the 2 main "investigators" in this matter. Mayor Riley doesn't know a damn thing about firefighting. He's just looking for another reason to make a public appearance to make himself look good to the citizens of charleston. He's not fooling anybody. There are many things that I think Mayor Riley should not be involved in; a fire investigation is a very good one. As for chief Mullen and Thomas, They should leave this investigation with federal officials and other fire officials. They are going to back and say that THEIR regulations and standards need no change. Unfortunately, there are too many things that need to change in the city's fire department. Booster lines and no air packs or protective gear are a thing of the past.

Posted by Harpo on July 27, 2007 at 8:51 p.m. (Suggest removal)

They are leaving the investigation to the federal
officials .. they don't have the option of taking
it away from them. What they seem to be doing is
conducting a parallel investigation of their own
very, very late in the game so that when the NIST
report comes out they can say "We did an
investigation, too, because we're concerned with
improving our department. We always strive to
improve."

The sad thing is that the lawsuits we can expect
will be more expensive than improving the fire
department's equipment and training probably would
have been in the first place.

That money's gonna come out of our hide, folks.

Wait for the NIST report and then see how much
ammunition their lawyers have. I expect a big
settlement.

Posted by nickiegarbeil on July 28, 2007 at 10:15 a.m. (Suggest removal)

I'm sure the city has insurance that will pay out these settlements...if not...then I guess it is a lesson learned to the taxpaying voters that it is time for a change?

Posted by charleytowngirl on July 28, 2007 at 10:17 a.m. (Suggest removal)

You're right about the lawsuits, Harpo. Unfortunately, the chief will probably be the best witness for the plaintiffs. He should have thought things through before he chose to speak about the departments policies in public.

In my opinion, he should have kept quiet until all the investigations are finished, learn from the terrible mistakes that were made and move on to better this department for the future. Unfortunately, we can't turn back time, I wish that we could, but they can learn from this and move on so it does not happen again. If that means that the chief has to step aside, then so be it. If he loves these men/women in the department, he will not want to continue running the department that way it has been going. It appears from everything I've seen and read that he's hurting them, not helping them. He either needs to get with the current standards of training and put them to practical use or get out. The good ole boy system should not have a place in a profession such as this!

Posted by charleytowngirl on July 28, 2007 at 10:24 a.m. (Suggest removal)

True, insurance will pay out first, but what happens if the settlement if more than the insurance coverage? In the end it trickles down to the taxpayers with higher taxes to cover the city's losses. Once the insurance rates are raised for the city and the fire department that all gets passed on to the taxpayer and the consumer anyway. Not to mention, that if the City does lose it's ISO class rating of 1, homeowners and fire insurance rates will go up anyway. The protection class rating of a community/fire department is one of major things that affect your insurance premiums.

Posted by nickiegarbeil on July 28, 2007 at 10:55 a.m. (Suggest removal)

I agree, Charleytowngirl, but then again...we(I used to live there as well) were ALL complacent in allowing our government(local) to run things the way they did...for too long people have felt that the status quo is fine, and if it isn't broken don't fix it...well...it's BEEN broken, we just chose not to examine it before it blew up in our faces.

It is one thing to come out on voting day...it is another to actually follow what is going on in the upper ranks of the city.

What's going to happen when the safety issues get so bad that Charleston CAN'T get FF to work for them? They are already operating below the numbers required for safe exercise...isn't THAT a bigger risk to us?

Posted by bickleseagrave on July 28, 2007 at 10:52 p.m. (Suggest removal)

Hopefully this document will be taken into consideration during the investigation

http://www.sled.sc.gov/documents/HSGrant...

Posted by nickiegarbeil on July 28, 2007 at 11:39 p.m. (Suggest removal)

Bickle,

OK, so NIMS is obviously LAW...I was asking if something was legislated since this happened...geesh...lol BUT...what does NIMS actually say?

I am also confused about training...doesn't OSHA look to see if training is being completed? Isn't training required??

Posted by east3 on July 29, 2007 at 3:06 p.m. (Suggest removal)

What a travesty! The man most culpable in this disaster will be investigating himself. And the man who appointed him and stood by him will also be investigating him. Plus two more guys he appointed and can fire at any time. Maybe people will be so outraged at this phony inquiry they will demand a real one. The mayor and chief have already declared their findings - the CFD did nothing wrong, the state and federal standards don't matter, the text books are useless, booster lines are great for structure fires (everybody else is wrong), PPE is optional on the fireground, command is like a butterfly! Who will they get for experts - I have two predictions - Jim Bowie and Chief Phillips. Who else would risk their reputation? Maybe a retired CFD chief officer and ... It's a mystery.

Posted by nickiegarbeil on July 29, 2007 at 10:09 p.m. (Suggest removal)

East3

It's the Charleston way(said with oodles of sarcasm)

Posted by east3 on July 30, 2007 at 4:08 p.m. (Suggest removal)

Any CFD FF or officer willing to risk speaking anonymously, but face to face with a reporter about the fire or about the department, use this site to contact me by email and I will reply with more information. If there are more than one, and you know each other, maybe one guy can do this. I will post this on other threads too, as I do not see some of the regular contributors here. I am not there but would be a go between if I can. They want to hear from you. This guy has stood up for you in the paper. For my part, I went on the record on the booster lines and am working with one member of council in hopes he will come out publicly. I was credited with finding the photo showing the collapse warning of the front wall cracking open. May be an upcoming P&C story. If you want some union protection I may have some union contacts too, though I don't know how much they can do there. The IAFF has sued before to get people their jobs back for retributive firings.

Consider this a plea from those who want to help. The post by engineercfd about the fire scene was heartwrenching. It should be on Anderson Cooper 360. I'll try them again too.

THIS IS LESS DANGEROUS THAN GOING TO WORK NEXT DAY!