Loopholes and lapses in immigration enforcementComplex problem of illegal immigrants illustrated by Lowcountry case involving staffing agency By James Scott
The Post and Courier
Sunday, December 16, 2007
Alan Hawes Hispanic men stand outside the BP gas station at the corner of Ashley Phosphate and Stall Roads Wednesday. About this storyIn March 2004, The Post and Courier published an investigation of labor company L&L Services after workers accused the company of failing to pay overtime, making fake green cards and Social Security cards and housing workers in rundown properties. The newspaper's initial report prompted an investigation by the U.S. Department of Labor, which determined that the company failed to pay more than 22,000 hours of overtime wages. It also sparked a federal criminal investigation and civil lawsuit by workers that was settled last year for an undisclosed amount. The newspaper recently was given exclusive access to the civil court records, which are the basis for this follow-up report. More than three years later, the criminal probe of the company continues. The market for cheap labor is obvious to anyone who passes a parking lot on the corner of Ashley Phosphate and Stall roads in North Charleston. Dozens of Latinos, sometimes 100 or more, gather almost daily, waiting for a homeowner or a contractor to offer them work. Ramon, 34, and Jorge, 49, agreed to talk about what their lives are like as long as their last names were withheld. Nearly all of the men in the parking lot are illegal immigrants, they say. Both worked elsewhere in the country before moving to the Lowcountry, in part because of the demand for workers and South Carolina's reputation for lax immigration enforcement. Unfortunately, the two men say, work offers are down from just a few months ago, and the number waiting in the lot grows daily. "More people, less jobs," Jorge said. Ramon said that of those gathered on any day, only 15 or 20 will get a job. Still, the lure is strong because of the money and the hope of getting a job that could last weeks or maybe longer. In Mexico, Jorge said, he would be lucky to earn $4 to $5 a day. In South Carolina, he can get nearly double that in an hour. With those wages, Ramon said, he plans to work another year and then return to his wife and three children. Robert Rodriguez, an assistant special agent in charge at U.S. Immigration and Customs Enforcement in Atlanta, said South Carolina has one of the fastest growing populations of illegal immigrants because jobs are a big magnet. As money and jobs continue to draw illegal immigrants, and the national drumbeat to crack down on them intensifies, one civil case illustrates how federal regulators have done little to dismantle the economic infrastructure that encourages this illicit industry to thrive. More than 1,000 pages of court documents filed in a settled lawsuit against L&L Services, a labor company that generated millions of dollars each year operating almost exclusively with illegal immigrant labor, provides a window into the operation of the underground economy. Whether other L&Ls continue to feed the Charleston labor market with illegal immigrants is unknown. Federal prosecutors would say only that a number of investigations are under way on different employers around the state. John Massalon, the attorney for L&L Services' owner, Lawton Limehouse, said his client had no comment for this story. Related StoryA review of the case by The Post and Courier exposes a failure of federal agencies to deal with illegal immigrants in a systemic way. The case reveals loopholes in immigration law, a lack of communication among agencies and a legal system that makes it harder to prosecute businesses than workers, holes authorities concede remain today. More than three years after federal agents raided the home of L&L Services' owner, officials say the criminal case remains active, though no charges have been filed. "It remains an open and ongoing investigation," said Assistant U.S. Attorney Kevin McDonald. "That's about all I can tell you." Still, the court records in the civil case paint what one attorney involved described as a road map for prosecution. Hundreds of Social Security numbers included in the case files and examined by the newspaper show that illegal immigrants were nearly all of the company's workforce, many using the same numbers as actual citizens. Court records also show that L&L was alerted by the federal government on many occasions about problems with workers' Social Security numbers. In 2004, documents show the government told L&L that about 300 of its workers' names and Social Security numbers didn't match federal records. Records also reveal that on several occasions, a company bookkeeper called the Social Security Administration to voice her concerns about what she believed could be bogus Social Security numbers. L&L Services' owner admitted in a deposition to using workers he knew were smuggled into the country by coyotes, a slang term used to describe those who smuggle people for a price. South Carolina lawmakers, who are considering numerous laws aimed at tightening the screws on illegal immigration, have cited a lack of meaningful investigations and prosecutions by federal agencies as one of the driving reasons behind the state's efforts. South Carolina Senate President Pro Tem Glenn McConnell, a Charleston Republican, said businesses that knowingly hire illegal immigrants should be prosecuted. "There is a power failure in Washington," he said. "They have not devoted enough resources and manpower to vigorously enforce the laws and pursue the case against illegal immigration. The result is that the state is getting stuck with the bill." Profiting on illegals L&L Services began operating in 1999. It specialized in providing workers for menial jobs, ranging from washing dishes at high-profile restaurants such as McCrady's to grooming golf courses on Kiawah Island. Initially, the company hired mostly Latinos, utilizing the government's H-2B temporary visa program designed to bring in foreign workers. After a year, records show, L&L stopped using government-sponsored workers and began hiring locally, often recruiting family members of existing workers. The company quickly grew, supplying laborers to nearly 250 local businesses and individuals. Those businesses typically paid L&L $10 per hour for each worker. The company normally kept $4 and paid workers $6. The company's gross revenue ballooned to $3.1 million by 2002, tax returns show. In 2004, North Charleston building inspectors discovered nearly two dozen workers crammed into a company-run house off Dorchester Road, including five men in an outdoor storage shed. The business closed amid the scrutiny. Workers filed a federal lawsuit accusing the company of exploitation, failing to pay overtime and in some cases selling fake green cards and Social Security cards for $120. The case was settled in September 2006 for an undisclosed sum. Records from that case are the basis for the newspaper's analysis. The Post and Courier analyzed the Social Security numbers of 219 former L&L Services employees that were listed in the civil court records. Of those, only two workers had Social Security numbers that matched their name. Half of the workers had numbers linked to other people. Dozens of others used Social Security numbers that the federal government had not issued. Twenty-two of the Social Security numbers belonged to dead people. In a 2004 interview with The Post and Courier, company owner Limehouse said all his employees were in the country legally. But in June 2005 Limehouse testified in a deposition for the civil case that some of his workers were smuggled in by coyotes. The company did not pay the coyotes directly, Limehouse testified in the deposition taken by attorney Paul Hulsey, who represented the workers. But he said the company did at times advance workers money to live on after they paid the coyotes: Hulsey: So from time to time, you had coyotes bring people in, but the financial arrangements were between the worker and the coyote, right? Limehouse: Right. Hulsey: But the coyote situation was at least known to you, and it wasn't an infrequent situation? Limehouse: Well, I knew people brought people to us, yes. System breakdowns Civil court records show that L&L Services popped up on the Social Security Administration's radar on multiple occasions because of problems with workers' Social Security numbers. The agency sent the company "no-match" letters, form letters sent out annually notifying a business that a worker's name and number don't match federal records. The letters often are a first sign for a business of possible problems with a worker's immigration status. On March 27, 2004, the Social Security Administration sent L&L about 300 no-match letters, accounting for more than $1.3 million in reported earnings the company paid to workers in 2003. Limehouse testified in a deposition that at the end of each year his company got "a pile" of no-match letters. Normally many of the workers had moved on, so there wasn't anything to do, he testified. The rest he told to call the Social Security Administration and work it out. In addition Limehouse testified that he never replied to the Social Security Administration's yearly inquiries, a response that seemed to surprise attorney Hulsey. Hulsey: So if the Social Security Department asked about a Social Security number, what, if anything, did you do? Limehouse: Nothing. Hulsey, who represented L&L Services workers free of charge, said his firm discovered in its investigation that L&L Services at times simply changed a worker's Social Security number by one digit and re-filed the number the next year. "The system is absolutely broken," he said. "If you want to know how does this happen in a given business environment, look at this case. How can you do it and get away with it?" Loopholes in the law Since 2004, when L&L Services shut down, the government has made some strides in cracking down on illegal immigration, but experts say many loopholes still exist, agencies don't cooperate and investigations and prosecutions are inconsistent. Mark Lassiter, press officer for the Social Security Administration, said immigration enforcement is the job of the Department of Homeland Security, not the Social Security Administration. He said also that even if the agency generates a large quantity of no-match letters for a particular business, as with L&L Services, it is forbidden by law from sharing that information with other federal agencies, including immigration, because the information comes from the Internal Revenue Service's W2 forms and is protected under federal privacy laws. "The Social Security Administration has no enforcement authority," Lassiter said. This year, the Department of Homeland Security, which oversees immigration and customs enforcement, planned to start attaching its own letter to no-match letters. It would alert businesses that failing to respond to the letters within 90 days is grounds for assuming a company knowingly hired illegal immigrants. A federal judge issued a restraining order recently blocking the letters as part of a lawsuit filed by the American Federation of Labor and Congress of Industrial Organizations, the American Civil Liberties Union and the National Immigration Law Center, which argued it was unfair to workers and a burden to employers. Laura Keehner, a press officer with the Department of Homeland Security, said the judge's ruling was a disappointment. Legitimate reasons do sometimes prompt no-match letters, such as a married woman who changes her name. Still, Keehner said, the majority of businesses that get no-match letters are companies hiring illegals immigrants. "For those employers who have piles of no-match letters, that is a large problem," Keehner said. "That is one of the reasons why the immigrants are staying in this country. There is an economic draw." The Social Security Administration isn't the only federal agency to take a look at L&L Services. In 2004, after L&L workers complained publicly of working as many as 80 hours a week without overtime, the U.S. Department of Labor launched an investigation. One of the illegal immigrants, Maximino Flores, said in an affidavit filed in the civil case that he and others routinely were cheated out of wages. "During the time that I worked for L&L Services there were numerous occasions that I was not paid for hours or overtime that I worked," he testified. "Typically I would not be paid for between five and 15 hours or more per week." Labor Department regulators pored through the company's books and determined that L&L failed to pay more than 22,000 hours of overtime to more than 200 workers. It ordered the company to pay $66,485 in back wages. The notes from the Labor Department's investigation are contained in civil court records, including a list of 219 Social Security numbers used by workers who ultimately were owed back wages. These are the same numbers the newspaper determined are mostly bogus or don't belong to L&L Services workers. In 1998, the Labor Department and immigration authorities struck a deal to refer cases to one another. But there's a catch: While labor investigators are expected to refer cases involving companies that have knowingly hired or continue to employ illegal immigrants, they are barred from making any inquiry about workers' immigration status. Michael Wald, the Labor Department's deputy regional director for public affairs, said his agency focuses on determining who is owed money. "We don't check Social Security numbers. We don't actually run them to see if they are bogus," Wald said. "It would have to come up in some other way. You have to use your imagination. Maybe in the course of a conversation." Tough to prosecute Steven Camarota, director of research for the Washington-based Center for Immigration Studies, said most cases involving businesses that game the system involve small to midsize companies. Larger companies, he said, tend to have professional human resources employees who know the laws. Enforcement has picked up some in recent years as the issue has become a political lightning rod, but Camarota said it still isn't what it should be. "The system is so lax," said Camarota, whose organization advocates for increased immigration enforcement. "There are, according to the Department of Homeland Security, a quarter million people working on a Social Security number made up of all zeros." When agents do go after immigration violations, investigators and prosecutors often focus on workers, not the businesses, in part because the laws are stacked against them, officials say. In the last five years, a review of case statistics shows that most of the roughly 950 immigration-related cases prosecuted by the U.S. Attorney's Office in South Carolina have involved immigrants caught here illegally or caught using false documents, such as green cards and Social Security cards. McDonald, the assistant U.S. attorney, said it is easier to prosecute a worker caught with fake documents because there is a narrow set of facts. Prosecuting a business is more difficult because the law requires only that a company owner see a worker's document. There is no requirement to verify whether the document is legitimate. Experts say that loophole lets employers do as little as possible to verify workers' documents. It also offers an easy shield against prosecution. A business owner can simply claim not to be a document expert and unable to distinguish what is or isn't a valid document. As a result, prosecutors must be creative and pursue other charges, such as conspiracy charges. In an Ohio case last year, federal authorities charged a temporary employment agency in part for lying to its clients and stating that its employees were legally allowed to work. The problem of hiring illegal immigrants didn't disappear when L&L Services shut its doors. McDonald said the U.S. Attorney's Office is working with investigators on a number of other employer-related cases, though he said he could not disclose any information about them. "This area is an important area," McDonald said of efforts to crack down on employers who knowingly hire illegal immigrants. "It is one that is not lost upon our office." Still, some experts argue that politics also plays a role. Monica Guizar, an employment policy attorney with the National Immigration Law Center, which tries to protect the interests of immigrants, said by targeting workers, lawmakers and agencies controlled by political appointees can appear tough on immigration without punishing voters and political donors who profit from cheap labor. "While the administration and the agency and the government may claim that the target is employers who knowingly hire undocumented workers, what we are actually seeing is that they are ignoring employers' criminal violations and going out and arresting and detaining workers and pressing criminal charges against them," Guizar said. "The employers are getting off scot-free." Reach James Scott at 745-5855 or at jscott@postandcourier.com. |
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Comments
This article has 44 comment(s)
Posted by heehaw2008 on December 16, 2007 at 2:47 a.m. (Suggest removal)
MIAMI - The honeymoons are over for a 26-year-old woman who authorities say has at least 10 husbands.
Eunice Lopez has been charged with bigamy, accused of marrying 10 men between 2002 and 2006 without divorcing any of them, federal immigration authorities say. The Miami Herald reported Saturday that a records search by the newspaper found seven additional marriages under the bride's name and birth date.
Lopez arrived in South Florida from Cuba in 2002 and was a legal U.S. resident.
"I can tell you that none of the individuals she married had any type of residency," said Terry Chavez, a spokesman for the Miami-Dade office of the state attorney.
Prosecutors say she charged her husbands an unspecified amount to help them secure immigration status and continued asking the men for money long after the wedding, threatening to expose them if they didn't pay.
Chavez said the state attorney's office began investigating after being tipped off by Immigration and Customs Enforcement.
Lopez was released on $18,000 bond. Her last known address was in Hialeah, just north of Miami. A telephone listing for her could not be located, and it was not known whether she had an attorney.
Posted by heehaw2008 on December 16, 2007 at 2:57 a.m. (Suggest removal)
In a year he is going to return to his children. Does he have to climb a fence to get back to his children? I bet he can go see his kids( in mexico) easier than he can he get back across the border but he probably does it so much its easy. Just an American talking here correct me if i`m wrong.
Posted by heehaw2008 on December 16, 2007 at 3:06 a.m. (Suggest removal)
This is a letter to the editor from Saturday. Why is Illegal NOT in the front of Immigrants Dream ??? Immigrants' dream
Regarding Max Boot's Dec. 5 column: I must say that this commentary is by far the absolutely finest article and contains some of the most accurate information on the dynamics of illegal immigration that I have read to date in The Post and Courier.
I do not comprehend why so many Americans are so hateful to those who are not like them (Anglo) and so full of preconceived notions about Hispanics in our country.
Yet at the same time, they don't mind if those same Hispanics cut their grass, wash their cars, build their homes, paint their houses, build our nation's streets and highways, do our dry cleaning and serve us at the Mexican restaurants that we so love. The list goes on and on.
The livelihood of the American economy thrives and survives on the backs of illegal immigrants. What most people fail to realize is that these people are human. They have dreams and desires to live "normal" lives, which is impossible for them in their countries of origin. They come here to work, to raise families, to educate their children, to go to church, to find a place to live, to drive a car, to shop for groceries and clothes, to go to the movies and visit a park — all things most Americans take for granted.
Furthermore, if they could come here legally they would, but unfortunately governments on both sides make that impossible.
Kelly Borland
Brandt Street
North Charleston
Posted by heehaw2008 on December 16, 2007 at 3:11 a.m. (Suggest removal)
yes I`m p`od about going to walmart and standing in line behind someone who doesn`t speak the english but has an EBT card in her hand. Her husband has a wallet full of cash to pay for BEER but she has EBT to pay for the necessities
of life . Something is wrong here folks
Posted by pirate42 on December 16, 2007 at 4:50 a.m. (Suggest removal)
WELLLLLL I guess the south does rise again using south the border labor as they did Black Labor .... where the hell is imagration oficials or are they the ones hiring the illegals I see this going on for few years now what a shame . SOUTH CAROLINIA WAKE UP.....
Posted by BillytheKid on December 16, 2007 at 4:50 a.m. (Suggest removal)
Easy fix, tax rate for illegals....90%, tax rate for their employers, 90%. Fine for hiring one, 100%.
Posted by moonpie on December 16, 2007 at 7:51 a.m. (Suggest removal)
CVS and D_H once again you have hit it on the head! I work off A/P rd and drive by that intersection everyday. These ILLEGALS hang out under a sign posted "no loitering". How about WE put pressure on the business owner & N.CHUCK PO-PO? Also in this same area and SAME parking lot are taco wagons popping up. Do they have a license? Are they held to the same inspections as a legal american owned restaurant?
I get so tired of hearing the argument "their doing jobs no one else will do". That's a load of crap! They're doing them much cheaper and businesses don't have to pay them benefits that's why they're here. CHEAP LABOR ABOUNDS!
Posted by moonpie on December 16, 2007 at 8:31 a.m. (Suggest removal)
T_M_O_T_S, Start something and say where I'm there! I couldn't agree more. The first thing that needs to happen is what ever poltician tried to push this illegal immigration legislation down our throats, (ie McCain & Graham) we vote them out of office and send a clear message. And local politicians that will not do something about it, vote them out too! When there is a threat they'll lose POWER they will act. It's reaching the point of no return!
Posted by gencon1 on December 16, 2007 at 8:52 a.m. (Suggest removal)
I am a contractor and we employ five "spaniards". I confirmed that all are legal prior to hiring them. I can tell you from experience that these workers aren't desired because they are "cheap" labor. They are desired because they are the hardest working, honest people I have ever seen. They make from 12.00 to 17.00 dollars per hour.
The people who are born and raised here don't want to work because of our social net. It's easier to stay home and collect welfare. The immigrants come from a culture that instills a good work ethic in thier people.
Posted by SCVOTER on December 16, 2007 at 9:02 a.m. (Suggest removal)
Moonpie...I dont think you can vote McCain out of office unless you livein Az.
And yes, those "taco wagons" have DHEC letters, and are owned by legal residents that see an oportunity to make some money off the new illegal population.
Stop the jobs and that will stop the workers. Start putting some General Contractors in jail...start shutting down these slave camps that front as legit business. Attacking this problem through arresting illegals would cripple out justice system. Cut off the head and the body will die.
Posted by MarkSCCOT on December 16, 2007 at 9:16 a.m. (Suggest removal)
This is a horribly frustrating problem, but I believe that the root of it all is the governments inability or unwilligness to enforce the law.
I worked in a warehouse that where our basic labor was initially accomplished by labor ready staff. The work quality was spotty but occasionally you would get a good worker and he would be retained. However, the employer then began to hire illegals at 2 dollars an hour less and he would work them greater than 40 hours without overtime. Since he knew they were illegal, he also knew they would not complain.
After awhile I was frustrated and I called ICE (Immigration and Customs Enforcement). I was shuffled from person to person. I submitted in excess of 12 automated emails. Please believe I was persistent. NOTHING EVER HAPPENED!!!!
I have heard the argument that we need these workers for our economy, that they accomplish jobs others are unwilling to do and without them our economy would collapse. Read some history....these are the identical arguments that anti-abolitionists used in the 1840's to defend slavery. True these are hardworking people, but employers victimize them due to their immigration status. This too is a moral issue and this too must be dealt with.
Illegal immigration is an issue of supply and demand. Fire every Border Patrol agent. Tear down the fence. Take the freed up labor and put them into every community to enforce the labor law. You hire an illegal, the first time you get a fine. After subsequent infractions, you lose your right to conduct business. Sound harsh? What would happen to my business if I violated tax law? The illegals have, by definition, shown their unwillingness to comply with American law. Make the jobs dry up, remove social services and see how many come here illegally. Albeit we do need the pool of labor, allow them to come legally through Visa programs. I am more confident that a US Citizen facing censure will comply to the law than the fact that we can somehow secure the borders.
Posted by ironhorse on December 16, 2007 at 9:31 a.m. (Suggest removal)
How do they get to the corner every day? Do any of them drive there?
Posted by IOP4ME on December 16, 2007 at 9:39 a.m. (Suggest removal)
Most people who use illegal labor report higher productivity ratings for illegals than for Clemson grads, and the median starting salary for both is about the same.
Posted by bigwhip on December 16, 2007 at 10 a.m. (Suggest removal)
It is amazing the number of people that don't understand the gravity of this mess, turn their heads, and hire these ILLEGALS. Bleeding heart liberals crack me up! Too bad the P & C did not do the total job in their reporting by outing all who hire these ILLEGALS.
Posted by ironhorse on December 16, 2007 at 10:01 a.m. (Suggest removal)
Well the could save money by hiring Johnny-no-stars.
Posted by chucktonian on December 16, 2007 at 10:22 a.m. (Suggest removal)
companies hire the mexicans because they're good workers. you can't get lazy americans to show up and do hard work on a regular basis.
that said
illegal is illegal. round them up, all several million of them, and send them home. the Mexican invasion needs to stop.
Posted by Chsliving on December 16, 2007 at 10:24 a.m. (Suggest removal)
SCVOTER..."Taco wagons" that funny, I haven’t heard that one.
I agree with MarkSCOTT...this is an issue of supply and demand. Federal and State agencies need to have effective and enforceable repercussions for companies who hire illegal workers. Once the demand dries up so will supply and then you will see an increase in low income wages (no need to increase the minimum wage) for American citizens.
Hopefully if the American people keep up the pressure on elected officials, I'm fairly optimistic that something will be done. One thing that's slowing down this process is the lawsuits from "labor groups" and the ACLU, but if the US and State congress pass true comprehensive immigrations laws, then I’m optimistic that the ship can be righted. That being said it will take a long time.
I do feel for illegal immigrants they have a hard life, but that doesn’t mean we should open the doors and welcome everyone in…we (the US) cant afford to give handouts in the form of public assistance to every illegal immigrant who can get into the US.
One fix to the tax issue is to move to from our current tax system to a national sales tax via the “Fair Tax.” Anyone who doesn’t know how this would work should read Neal Boortz’s book. This comment is coming from a CPA, who would welcome a change to a national sales tax with open arms.
Any comments out there on the Fair Tax?
Posted by ironhorse on December 16, 2007 at 10:34 a.m. (Suggest removal)
Well, it beats our current system, the un-fair tax.
Posted by Chsliving on December 16, 2007 at 10:36 a.m. (Suggest removal)
IOP4ME..."Most people who use illegal labor report higher productivity ratings for illegal than for Clemson grads, and the median starting salary for both is about the same"
Where do you get your facts?
I personally can’t believe this to be true. The article states that illegal immigrants receive around $10/hr. Are you telling me that the median Clemson grad (or any college grad) is only getting around $10/hr after graduation? If this is the case it must be due to all those Art History majors working at Starbucks pulling down the average, but even with this I still don't see the median rate moving down that far.
Posted by JC on December 16, 2007 at 11:24 a.m. (Suggest removal)
So immigrants that were illegally here in the first place, were able to file a lawsuit, and they even got back pay. SOunds like we're treating them like US citizens instead of the illegals that they are. Get them out!
Posted by southerner on December 16, 2007 at 11:32 a.m. (Suggest removal)
gencon1
You are something else, when was the last time you paid an illegal 12 or 17 dollars an hour? NEVER. You use them as does every other person that hires them. You people make me sick, you say they work when our citizens won't, YOU LIE. Pay a decent wage and quit stuffing your pockets and you will find a lot of hard working citizens that will work just as hard. The illegal's make up for the cheap pay (in America, good pay for Mexico) by getting free food, medical,welfare and education ( at the expense of the American people) living 15 to 20 in a single family house or apartment. Do you speak Spanish? If so, go to where they hang out and listen to what they say about the women and young girls that walk by. Do you think they can't speak or understand English ? Then walk up to them and ask for their green card, if they say they don't understand, take your cell phone out and tell them if they don't leave you will call INS and see what happens. When I hear them speaking Spanish, I walk over and ask for their green card. So you keep packing your pockets off of slave labor. Do you know how much money you are helping these people take away in social service's that could be going to the people that really need it ? Shame on you. Aren't you an upstanding American citizen? What is the name of your company ? and if you are not a shamed of what you are doing you will post it. But I know you won't.
Posted by BreezinIAm on December 16, 2007 at 11:43 a.m. (Suggest removal)
Me to teenage nieces: Do you want to help me rake leaves and pine straw for, say, $6 an hour?
Nieces: [Blank, are-you-from-another-planet stare.]
The amigos don't worry about breaking nails and, frankly, they're more fun.
Posted by Chsliving on December 16, 2007 at 11:46 a.m. (Suggest removal)
PalmettoMan, I think you mean 15Million not 15Billion and 80thousand not 800thousand.
But still, at these rates, the stress illegal immigration is putting on social services in the US is more than it can bear.
Posted by MarkSCCOT on December 16, 2007 at 11:49 a.m. (Suggest removal)
Yeah there are lots of laws that are easy to break and I quote "more fun."
I grant they are good and dependable workers. So were slaves. Should we defend that institution. Slavery is illegal. Hiring an illegal is illegal. In our society you don't get to cherry pick which laws you choose to obey.
Posted by hobo on December 16, 2007 at 5:24 p.m. (Suggest removal)
What politicians, especially on a federal level, do not want to address (because of public uproar) is the large sums of the American dollar being sent to these illegal's families back in South America. It would be easy to get a fairly accurate number. Subpeona Western Union records. If half of the 15 million illegals send $100 per week, that's $75 MILLION per week! And, trust me, these are very conservative figures.
JMHO
Hobo
Posted by PoliGadfly on December 16, 2007 at 5:57 p.m. (Suggest removal)
Since they start the article with a tacit admission that illegals are hanging out at Stall and Ghastly Frustrate and given those who are legal are required to carry appropriate paperwork to that effect appropriate law enforcement authority can now check those people without any "rights" being violated. Thanks P&C. Those who say you can't arrest or deport 12 million, I remind you a journey of a thousand miles begins with the first step and there are by the news account sometimes 100's of "steps" to be taken toward that goal
Posted by RTC on December 16, 2007 at 6:31 p.m. (Suggest removal)
I understand that local law enforcement won't do anything unless they have enough people for a van load. Well, you know where your van load is now, as if you didn't know before.
Posted by preachlove on December 16, 2007 at 8:44 p.m. (Suggest removal)
"There is a power failure in Washington," he said. "They have not devoted enough resources and manpower to vigorously enforce the laws and pursue the case against illegal immigration. The result is that the state is getting stuck with the bill."
A republican admitting there is a power failure in Washington. What happened to standing by each other's side no matter what the scandal? What happened to supporting the Bush administration no matter what lies or deceits were committed? This situation is a mess, the ultimate quagmire. I have never read of such a failed and ineffective policy as what I am reading here about this immigration fiasco. Our country is sinking fast and is quickly going down the drain.
When will our leaders start seeing the forest for the trees? They won't enforce our borders, so not only can illegal immigrants enter the country, I imagine terrorists can too. I really don't understand the lack of concern for our country being exhibited by our elected officials in Washington. Can't they see and understand the magnitude of this problem. But then again, it's all about money isn't it and as long as businesses are making money, well I'll wink and turn a blind eye.
Posted by moonpie on December 16, 2007 at 8:46 p.m. (Suggest removal)
Van load? You better bring a tractor trailer! I see 100 there at the Stall rd / Ashley phosphate intersection every day.
Again the consensus here reading these post is that we don't want them here so our gov needs to pack their butts send them back whence they came.
Posted by AFWally on December 16, 2007 at 11:01 p.m. (Suggest removal)
Can't really blame them for coming here, where they come from totaly sucks, they want to work, Americans are a lazy bunch and want to sit around on their fat a$$es and want max bucks for doing so. Jose does stuff on his own without being told, plus you can always find him working, no need to wonder where he's at or what he's doing, seldom does he need a follow up on his work. Given an opportunity I think they'll fall in line and get "legal"
Posted by CharlestonCat on December 16, 2007 at 11:34 p.m. (Suggest removal)
Yep-it's a new US. We know illegals are here (and hard workers they are indeed). As long as there isn't any trouble out of them-we accept them in our system because after all, the business employers that snatch them up do so to avoid paying extra and reporting anything about it to the government that creates this front about land of the Free. They are of course the ones that decide to create programs to take care of those that aren't legal and then pass the bill onto the tax payers...because they know YOU won't make a fuss...not seriously enough anyway to demand Changes in an already screwed-up, broken system run by politicians that abuse drugs, solicit prostitutes and support corruption. If the majority of the people really felt this illegal immigration thing was all that they would be protesting right in front of the pick-up corners but the sad reality is that people deep down really don't care. In fact (aside from topic)there's such a demand from the citizens for Pot and other drugs that they might as well let the dealers hang on the corners and make their money for rent or whatever. Other foreigners have had to become citizens the 'required' way, but that was the old way of the US. These days laws are only made to appear pencil pushers are doing a 'job' They don't seriously pass laws to enforce them (unless you are a target that they can use the law against in their favor). If they were serious, they would have an active task force issueing tickets instead of raising taxes,etc. I bet if that task force could keep the monies collected-they would be all over illegal anything and anyone. But that's an easy solution to a non-existing problem.
Posted by Diamondhead on December 17, 2007 at 7:41 a.m. (Suggest removal)
AFWally…I hate to break the news to you, but the entire third world sucks not just Mexico and if you picked up a history book, you would find that a little over a hundred years ago the United States wasn’t much different. My grandfather was born in a log cabin with no indoor plumbing, no electricity, no telephone, no washing machines, no refrigerator, no TV, no tractor to plow the fields just mules, no medical insurance, no social security, and the conditions didn’t improve much when my father was born. The problem is not us but with Mexico and rest of the third world. You would be a little surprise how far a little freedom and opportunity would go for an individual to realize his or her full potential in life if Mexico would allow their citizens a little freedom. Mexico and the rest of third world needs to improve the opportunities in their countries and not blame the United States for all their problems. Liberalism is enough to make a skunk vomit.
Posted by cnast777 on December 17, 2007 at 8:16 a.m. (Suggest removal)
IOP4ME
You're just mad because the illegal immigrants take Gamecock jobs.
Also, you should go easy on the run-on sentences.
ILLEGAL IMMIGRATION IS A FEDERAL CRIME.
Posted by theronce on December 17, 2007 at 8:29 a.m. (Suggest removal)
one of the few things that I need a federal government for is for protection. It could protect Saudi Arabia from one of the largest armies on earth in the early nineties. It refuses to protect our own borders now. We are so stupid.
Posted by Girleygirl on December 17, 2007 at 12:33 p.m. (Suggest removal)
There is not an excuse for people hiring illegal immigrants. People are going to the unemployment offices everyday trying to find a job. There are reports about companies closing up & hundreds of Americans are losing employment. Why can't employers reach out to the people at National Car Rental who won't have a job as of January or Grandsforks that just recently had a fire. Here we have a high A$$ unemployment rate and I just find it hard to believe that employers won't hire anyone just because they won't work! There are millions of excuses but this one is the one that just ticks me off because that's the excuse employers want us to believe and they can't tell the truth.
They hire illegals because its easier to take advantage of them. They can pay them lower wages & have them work longer days. Someone else hit it on the dot as well illegals are afraid of telling someone because, they are illegal!
Posted by flinsc on December 17, 2007 at 1:28 p.m. (Suggest removal)
It will always be a problem. As long as people hire them, nothing will change. It starts with strict policies and owners of companies that actually care about their country, more than they do the dollar. It would benefit the illegal workers if they become legal, better wages, better benefits, better way of life.
Posted by pelicanwoman on December 17, 2007 at 1:58 p.m. (Suggest removal)
So many comments about how hard they work.......but how hard does their paycheck work? I presume most of them are paid in cash, or their employer's risk being caught in an audit; i.e. paying them as subcontractors or employees with benefits, unemployment insurance on each one, etc.
Reform is definately needed. Stopping them at the border is like stopping the ocean with a broom. If they are going to be here, lets do something that requires them to pay taxes, and not just SALES tax. We will never get rid of them so we need to find a way to get them to earn their way.
Many of them did really escape their horrible life south of the border, but many of them also don't intend to stay here long term and contribute something back. Its like they crashed the wedding for the food and drink, and will slink off without leaving a present.
Posted by suec on December 17, 2007 at 4:26 p.m. (Suggest removal)
I hire hispanics to do my yard work at home. I don't ask for a social security number from them. I don't ask caucasians or blacks for one before they cut my grass or rake leaves.
Why do I use the hispanics? Becuase the others want to be paid by the hour and then they take all day or longer. The hispanics work by the job. A flat rate. They are happy and friendly and do a great job. I have never had to get them to redo anything. The last african american who did my yard work raked leaves and I found them all raked into the ditch behind the azalea bushes after he left.
I think one reason some peopple have a problem with them is because they put the American work ethic to shame. they are willing to work, sacrifice and save to get what they want.
I live in the Stall road area. A few years ago it was mainly a black community. I had my house broken into twice and there was foot/drug traffic through my yard all day long. Most of the time I missed it but I was home sick for a few days and it was like the freeway.
Since the area is now mainly hispanic, I have not had any break ins and no traffic through my yard. Why? Because everyone is at work during the day!
I think we should set up an exchange program with Mexico. Swap some of their good workers for some of our American born "to good to" workers.
Posted by anon_cop on December 17, 2007 at 8:30 p.m. (Suggest removal)
Let's clear up a couple of things. First of all, your local and state police are not able to enforce federal immigration law. We don't have the authority. Second, the property owner at Stall and Ashley Phosphate WAS approached by NCPD in reference to the crowds on his property in the mornings. The owner stated he DID NOT WANT NCPD to enforce his posted no loitering signs.
In my opinion he's taken this stance because of the almighty dollar. These people spend money at his business. The entire area is filling with these illegal aliens. As a result, if he chose to have NCPD run them off, his business would definitely suffer. Even if he did want to enforce the policy his signs declare, the best NCPD could do is write citations to people who consistently lie about their identities and have no ID, or put them in a jail that is already over capacity and under-staffed.
The place to start with serious enforcement is the local employers who hire these folks and claim - wink, wink, nudge, nudge - they don't know who's illegal and who's not. Unfortunately, the news media doesn't care to do these types of investigations. Even the P&C "investigative" reporting is always sympathetic to the illegals. If they were interested in doing a proper investigation, they could start with Manale Landscaping on Peppermill Parkway - or any other large landscaping or roofing company.
The average citizen can do his/her part by refusing to do business with any company that can't verify it's workers are legit. That's what I do. I hire them with the understanding that illegals won't be working on my properties. I've sent crews away and canceled contracts with companies that didn't abide by my stipulations.
Posted by Chief_SittingBull on December 18, 2007 at 2:31 p.m. (Suggest removal)
The Mexicans are coming, the Mexicans are coming. Thanks Jane “Revere;” America needed that warning.
Your comments are riddled with inaccuracies and the depiction of a dooms day for the white man I think you threw ’black’ in there to gain support. Just imagine how Native Americans, the ‘True Americans’ must have felt about the so called discovery of America. Those who we now know as 'Mexicans' were occupants of North America when you ancestors arrived. Karma, karma, karma… Perhaps your ancestors should have returned to Europe or their other points of origin when they ‘discovered’ that ‘America’ was occupied and there were many nations established upon their arrival.
“Immigrants used to come to this country to build a nation” you say. Give me a break, Jane! Your illegal alien ancestors, brought African slaves here to build a nation. How brave and noble of them. You speak of your ancestors as heroes, heroines, explorers, pioneer when in fact, they too carried diseases and wiped out entire tribes of Native Americans-which included 'Mexicans' and most importantly they were unwelcome, unannounced visitors.
I think you would have a problem with Mexicans even if they were entering the country legally. I think you are afraid of people who do not look like you, speak like you, think like you. “Illegal aliens are uneducated” -- well, some may be undereducated, but they know quite enough to make it in your little world. Please keep in mind that your uneducated vagabond ancestors came here and worked, not as hard as the ‘illegals’ --or slaves for that matter--of course, and became educated. So educated, that you are now privileged and lettered enough to determine who you think is worthy of entry to this country.
Remember this- America is a ‘bottled blond’ and there is nothing you can do to change her brown roots.
Posted by EllieMay on December 18, 2007 at 7:59 p.m. (Suggest removal)
Hello Everyone, let's face it. America will never get rid of the illegal immigrants. Do any of you have any Latino friends or really know the history of our America and neighboring Mexico. FYI...... for the uninformed.... Many Mexicans ( who were originally American Indians were driven from Here ,yes the GOOD OLD USA into Mexico, by our White Ancestors, why ? Of course to subjugate them and take their land. Then they were conqured by spain, and mised with Spaniard Eurpoeans. THE WANT TO COME BACK HOME! ! HELLO READ A BOOK , Read a book! Get to know any one of them and you discover thatthey want the same thing we want the DREAM! The dream to survive and be able to feed your children!Their economy is screwed and corrupt, has been for the longest and God knows when it will ever get right! We are all past down illegal aliens made legal by our selves by our roots! So get off your Pompous Cracks and get real!
Posted by EllieMay on December 18, 2007 at 8:36 p.m. (Suggest removal)
Stop being Biased, and get to know an illegal alien!. They are human beings too. There are worse crimes going on here than crossing a border, so get a grip! Yes HELLO some do speak English!, and some Portuguese! More than what you can say for the average uncultured American whom is too slow and is really afraid to learn about another language,or culture and use the THIS IS THE USA CRUSH to say your in america, you need to speakEnglish! Hello Caucasian race OUR days of subjugation and conquering are over ! We dont own the earth or it's other inhabitants. I speak 3 other languages besides English! You can't tell people what language to speak! You don't have a heaven of hell to put them in! We want to go tan in Cancun Mexico , and in Ipanema and Rio De Janereiro Brasil, they treat us like KINGS AND QUEENS WHEN WE ARE VACATIONING AND EXPLOITING THEM AND THEIR LOW ECONOMY. But then when come here to try to survive and make a living we have our noses turned up and butts on our shoulders! Anywho, we will all be one race after a while since our white girls just cant get enough brown meat! LOL !! PS! Brazilians already own half of GOOSE CREEK, SC !!!!
Posted by EllieMay on December 18, 2007 at 8:57 p.m. (Suggest removal)
You Go Chief Sitting Bull! That's what I am talking about ! This is the RED MAN's ORIGINAL land , God gave it to them, YOU CANNOT RAPE, PILLAGE ,PLUNDER ,AND SUBJUGATE. BAD CARMA BABY! The latin mixed race are the new Isralites! Your slaves may become your masters!I love latinos no matter what country they come from! And they are not all MEXICANS or ILLEGAL. VISIT GOOSE CREEK with a population of apx 20,000 or so Brazilians ( most with work permits! AND VISAS !They're extraordinary people,superb morals and work ethic! I know many personally as I teach them English!They have more morals than MOST OF US AMERICANS do, and have much better work ethic and love for family!
Posted by EllieMay on December 18, 2007 at 10:43 p.m. (Suggest removal)
If anyone would has any thing to say that's negative about what I said , You can bring it! I will shut you down!I am a multiracial individual of German, African slave, and Cherokee Indian descent.(PROUD IF IT!) I can see many viewpoints from each race that is instilled in my soul. Born and raised in MIAMI FLORIDA, USA WHERE SPANISH IS THE unofficial OFFICIAL LANGUAGE! I am an American with a love of Latin People and Culture! There are people in Miami from every latin and Carrribean country there, as well as Indians and descendants of Indians and Slaves that mixed. Too many languages to count! The world is bigger than the black and white old school South Cacalac BS.. Travel and make new ethnic friends and your ignorance (I HOPE) will be minimized or eliminated.
We are ONE people (THERE IS ONLY ONE HUMAN RACE) there are are only variances in complexions, eye color , hair color and textures! We are all illegal immmigrants, and some forced like the slaves were. Racial Prejudice is something man made up out of fear and ignorance to avoid and not reach out to some one who looks or talks different, and to pretend that you are elite to them ! Americas school History books tell the Caucasian version of History wich is not the complete truth, SO don't start with the UNEDUCATED BS! Americans are extremely uneducated from the rudimentary level! SOME MELTING POT WE ARE! WE ARE IN DENIAL AS A COUNTRY! DON'T BE AFRAID OF THE TANNED SKIN ONES! AREN'T WE DYING OF SKIN CANCER TO LOOK LIKE THEM?! SITTING BULL MUCH LOVE AND RESPECT TO YOU ! YOU ARE REAL! WE ARE PROBABLY RELATED ! LOL !!! We are not responsible for our rapists, robbing, and murderous ancestors that we claim are heroes, but opening your heart to someone who is different than ypu are makes you a HERO!TRY LIVING IN MEXICO AND WATCHING YOUR KIDS STARVE because there are no jobs! YOU'D BE RUNNING ACROSS THE BORDER TOO!, RISKING YOUR LIFE TO LIVE, SURVIVE, EAT AND TRY TO HAVE A BETTER LIFE AND FUTURE! PUT YOURSELF IN SOMEONE ELSES SHOES! WE DO NOT ASK PICK OR CHOOSE TO WHOM AND OR TO WHERE YOU ARE BORN!! Act like what we claim America stands for IS REAL!All other nonsense about who is illegla and who is not is HORSE CRAP! Sweep around your own doors before passing judment! Many americans lie and cheat to avoid paying taxes to the GOV! That's illegal and criminal! Takes criminals to know em! Illegal my crack!