Uniform under scrutinyFirefighters wear polyester that can melt, cling to skin The Post and Courier
Wednesday, August 29, 2007
Firefighter CoverageIn our special section with photos, videos, interactives, donation information and every story written about the tragedy.Firefighters wear polyester that can melt, cling to skin Charleston firefighters pride themselves on being among the best-dressed in the country, their vivid blue uniforms wrinkle-free and creased to precision. But these same uniforms, made of 100 percent polyester, offer inadequate protection to firefighters and fail to meet national safety standards, a leading protective clothing expert said. "They can liquefy and melt into the skin," said Jeffrey Stull, president of International Personnel Protection in Austin, Texas, which advises the National Fire Protection Association on standards for protective equipment. That's why most fire departments across the region now outfit their front-line firefighters in cotton-based uniforms. The Columbia Fire Department hasn't used polyester uniforms in at least 15 years. North Charleston dumped theirs a decade ago; Isle of Palms and Myrtle Beach did the same back in the 1980s. The debate about uniforms has simmered for years in Charleston and even became campaign fodder during the 2003 mayoral race. Charleston fire officials have long maintained the uniform material is a non-issue because city firefighters responding to fires are required to wear full protective gear over their polyester shirts and slacks. But that's not enough, according to national safety standards. "The very fact that persons are fire fighters indicates that all clothing that they wear should be flame resistant," according to the association's standards. "This would include clothing worn under their structural fire fighting protective ensemble." The uniform issue is the latest in a string of conflicts between the department's practices and federal firefighter safety guidelines that have come to light since nine firefighters died in the Sofa Super Store fire on June 18. State workplace safety officials say they look to the national standards to assess whether departments are following the law. The main risk with polyester uniforms is that they provide little or no protection if a firefighter is not in full protective gear or if that gear is compromised, Stull said. Photos and video footage from the Sofa Super Store fire show firefighters with open coats and no helmets standing mere feet from the flaming, crumbling facade, their polyester uniforms exposed. Some fire departments favor polyester uniforms because the material maintains its color over time and holds creases well. But many have moved away from polyester because of safety concerns or because cotton is more comfortable for firefighters. The labor union that represents about half of Charleston's firefighters raised concerns about the department's polyester uniforms in a 2002 proposal that it provided to Chief Rusty Thomas, Mayor Joe Riley and City Council. Union president Roger Yow chided city leaders last week for failing to address the proposal's major recommendations on uniforms and other safety-related concerns. In 2003, state OSHA inspectors visited the Charleston Fire department in response to complaints about the uniforms and other safety issues. Investigators determined that no hazard existed because the department required firefighters to wear their outer protective gear over the polyester uniforms. Riley said this week that he considered the uniform issue settled after Thomas spoke with OSHA representatives and was assured that the polyester uniforms posed no threat. But state OSHA spokesman Jim Knight said Tuesday that investigators took no action in 2003 because the national standards on heat resistance were not in place at the time of the inspection. Today, the state would consider the uniforms in violation of workplace safety regulations, he said. In response to inquiries from The Post and Courier, city spokeswoman Barbara Vaughn on Tuesday said an independent panel of experts evaluating the fire department intends to take a fresh look at the uniform issue. "We look forward to those recommendations," she said. The department's uniforms are made by Elbeco, which manufactures all types of clothing for public safety workers. Michael Vasilik, director of marketing for the Redding, Pa.-based company, said that particular style of polyester uniform does not meet national standards for heat resistance. "It is not positioned as meeting that standard," he said. "It is a style that fire departments may choose based on their own regulations." The lack of heat resistance in some synthetic materials, such as those used in athletic clothing, is enough of a concern that Marine Corps commanders in Iraq have banned the clothing on combat missions. Many soldiers and Marines wear " breathable" athletic clothing under their uniforms because they help wick moisture away from the body and keep them cool. But in Iraq, where troops are vulnerable to roadside bomb attacks, synthetic clothing can significantly complicate burn injuries, according to military reports. In one attack, a Marine was burned over 70 percent of his body after the vehicle he was riding in struck an improvised explosive device. The Marine's melted polyester shirt exacerbated the burns and had to be peeled away from his body. The city and the fire department have had ample warnings and opportunities to upgrade to safer uniforms, Yow said. In 2002, portions of a Charleston firefighter's uniform stuck to his skin when he was burned by splattering grease from a turkey fire, he said.Reach Ron Menchaca at |
Article tools |
|
Notice about comments: Charleston.net is pleased to offer readers the ability to comment on stories. We expect our readers to engage in lively, yet civil discourse. Charleston.net does not edit user submitted statements and we cannot promise that readers will not occasionally find offensive or inaccurate comments posted in the comments area. Responsibility for the statements posted lies with the person submitting the comment, not charleston.net. If you find a comment that is objectionable, please click "suggest removal" and we will review it for possible removal. Please be reminded, however, that in accordance with our Terms of Use and federal law, we are under no obligation to remove any third party comments posted on our website. Full terms and conditions can be read here. |
Comments
This article has 104 comment(s)
Posted by cfdiaffman on August 29, 2007 at 1:34 a.m. (Suggest removal)
King Riley - Dictator Thomas take another hit. Stupid or just fools, you be the judge. The union (local 61) did all the thinking for you clowns. All you had to do is listen. I've made up my mind. They're stupid and fools. Rusty, retire. Move out to Dorchester and farm peanuts with your dad. Maybe he can lick your wounds. Oh, thats right, he was a big part in getting you those wounds. Take little Tommy with you. He can't make it on his own.
Posted by Boosterhose on August 29, 2007 at 5:23 a.m. (Suggest removal)
As I recall the Fire Dept issued a couple of test
sets of cotton uniforms. Rusty said he didn't like
the look. The polyester types were reinstituted dis-
pite misgivings from union and nonunion personnel.
Once again proving that the mayor and RT have our
best interests at heart- not. Image was once again
more important than safety. Originally the dept.
had cotton uniforms with cloth badges sewn on.
They were deleted in favor of poly with metal badges.
One of the mayors stipulations to Rusty on coming into
office was to change the look into something more
presentable. Keeping this in mind along with Little
Joes past reelection campaign manuevers I'd have to
give Joe the majority of the credit for this one.
Thanks for listening Joe.[If you couldn't hear the inflection, last line was full of sarcasm]
Posted by Mayor on August 29, 2007 at 5:25 a.m. (Suggest removal)
Polyster uniforms! That says it all. Polyster in Charleston in the summer. Go figure. A little hot in there? Back in the day, I knew better than to get my lighter near my polyester shirt. Poof, you're burning. If all other departments have abandoned these things it is obviously the thing to do, a long time ago. Mayor and the Chief are more concerned with sharp creases. These two have to go. Harpo is so right about bush league management in the city of Charleston. Riley let Molony steal right under his nose. We need a new Chief from an up to date city, like we got in our new Police Chief. Start the search now.
Posted by Pols101 on August 29, 2007 at 6:09 a.m. (Suggest removal)
A cotton-wool blend is what the highway patrol and citadels uniforms are made of. That will not melt and it looks good. Why not use that? Maybe because of cost. I don't know.
Posted by Boosterhose on August 29, 2007 at 6:13 a.m. (Suggest removal)
If you think the polyester is bad listen to the reason for not having AC on the trucks. It'll start hard feelings because everyone will want them. Duh. Sure rusty, in reality the men don't want to dehydrate on the way to the call or while drilling or riding the district.
AC is a good way to lower the bodies core temperature. Who do you want at your emergency? The fireman already overheating prior to doing anything, or the cool, calm, focused firefighter prepared to do CPR or any Fireground activity.
Posted by meemz on August 29, 2007 at 6:23 a.m. (Suggest removal)
I am interested in reading how the neighboring fire departments compare to the CFD with regard to some of the common sense issues that are not being met by the CFD that have been brought out since the SSS fire - particularly the Summerville and Fort Dorchester Fire Departments. Oldcap, nickiegarbeil (I apologize if I misspelled your last name), Vesta, S'ville FFs, anyone who knows?
I, too, and so glad to see the P&C keeping this story in the lime light each and every day! I just wish it would gain some national attention!
Posted by poorboy on August 29, 2007 at 6:33 a.m. (Suggest removal)
mayor says it best,
Polyster uniforms! That says it all. Polyster in Charleston in the summer?
I was born and bred in the south. There are certain things you do to prepare for the heat of our summers and wearing polester ain't one of them! Nor is riding around with out an A/C. I bet the mayor and chief have it in their rides!
Posted by Boosterhose on August 29, 2007 at 6:53 a.m. (Suggest removal)
Their logic is if you are overheated you can sit in the chiefs car.
By then its too late.
All this sound familiar?
Posted by UberBlitzkrieg on August 29, 2007 at 6:53 a.m. (Suggest removal)
AC in the fire trucks... what an interesting concept! I betcha when Rusty and Shriver took delivery of thos bright and shiny "wonder wagons" they call chiefs cars... I betcha the AC stayed in those!?
Posted by notfooled on August 29, 2007 at 7:36 a.m. (Suggest removal)
Did you know that the AC is a standard feature in newer firetrucks? There is actually an additional charge to have the truck built without the AC installed.
Posted by FunandGames on August 29, 2007 at 7:53 a.m. (Suggest removal)
The 2002 document clearly identifies incidents where firefighters were burned wearing polyester. It further names numerous vendors of NFPA compliant uniforms. All they had to do was pick up the phone.
Riley deflected the uniform issue in the campaign in 2003. He called Bailey a liar, "Pinnochio" I think was the term that was used. The voters never did their own homework and the issue was dropped.
Jimmy Bailey was telling the truth all along.
Posted by jadmom on August 29, 2007 at 8:13 a.m. (Suggest removal)
Unbelievable! The guys who fight the fires are the ones riding around without AC? Gimme a break.
Posted by east4 on August 29, 2007 at 8:18 a.m. (Suggest removal)
Ok so the state OSHA guy said it would be considered a work place violation to have the polyester in place now. So with that said is the state OSHA going to come in and do something about that IDIOT rusty making us wear the polyester. Here is your chance OSHA make it happen!!!
It is all about control for rusty. He and all the Bat chiefs and Training chiefs and shop people ride in AC. We do not. Want to know what it is like. Go outside, get into your car, wrap up in 2-3 blankets and sit there for as long as you can. And oh yeah add some real heat. Try 800-1000 degrees!!!
Posted by jadmom on August 29, 2007 at 8:23 a.m. (Suggest removal)
Good illustration, east4. Thanks.
Posted by Early on August 29, 2007 at 8:48 a.m. (Suggest removal)
It’s hard to pass judgment without evidence but I have to say that evidence is piling up high. I know Rusty and do not believe that he would put any fire fighter in harms way deliberately and suspect that his proposals have been shot down in the past by the mayor. At this point I’m sure they are standing back to back but believe in the future as evidence mounts, they will stand apart and hopefully the city of Charleston will get a new mayor with fresh ideas.
Posted by Kerry on August 29, 2007 at 8:59 a.m. (Suggest removal)
I would suggest searsucker uniforms to match the suits of the Charleston lawyers that are going to become much wealthier thanks to the policies and standards of the Charleston Fire Department.
Posted by Kerry on August 29, 2007 at 9:06 a.m. (Suggest removal)
What do firemen wear in Disneyworld?
I am sure those uniforms would be presentable enough for Riley and Thomas, and any visiting tourist to our little Utopia.
Posted by jadmom on August 29, 2007 at 9:08 a.m. (Suggest removal)
I agree that Chief Thomas wouldn't intentionally put the firefighters in harm's way but some of these things (like uniforms for example) don't seem that difficult to change. Obviously there are different kinds out there, so they wouldn't have to design one or anything, so why not implement that immediately? I just don't get it.
Posted by SLK29406 on August 29, 2007 at 9:16 a.m. (Suggest removal)
I grew in up South Florida. Polyester in the heat is non-breathable and cruel to the wearer, Uniforms for firemen and police are cotton in the summer and wool blend in the winter. Uniforms are sent out for cleaning so they stay and look nice for a long time. Being at the Sofa Super store fire as a support group, I can tell you, I was worried about many of the public safety officials, some were flushed from the heat, heat exhaustion and heat stroke looked eminent because of the non breathable material plus the undershirts, bullet proof vests, etc
Posted by oldfric07 on August 29, 2007 at 9:34 a.m. (Suggest removal)
The uniforms were an issue in 1995. Several firefighters complained and in 96 the complaint was made formal. 11 years later, and 2 reports dismissed, and firefighters are still wearing uniforms rejected when MTV still played music videos.
Posted by Fire_Inspector on August 29, 2007 at 9:40 a.m. (Suggest removal)
Chief Thomas wouldn't intentionally put the firefighters in harm's way
The reason is simple: he just didn't give a crud about progress. All he cared about was image and being joes lackey.
As for ac, yes it is nice, but not absolutely necessary. There are rehab units (the Charleston Rescue Squad has one). But if it isn't a good idea, I wonder why the Chiefs and cops have ac? All CFD has to do is start buying new units with AC and retrofit the current vehicles with doors and AC. Not that big a deal. Just $.
Posted by exorcist_pencocky on August 29, 2007 at 10:13 a.m. (Suggest removal)
This can't be happening, I can't believe two people could be so stupid and reckless.
Okay, jokes over. Will the real Mayor and Fire Chief please come out and take these two impostors away.
Posted by hawneena on August 29, 2007 at 10:15 a.m. (Suggest removal)
My daughter was boiling water for pasta one time, and one of the kids for whom she sitting pushed her and caused the water to pour down her leg. She was wearing polyester pants. I had to pick the material out of her leg where it was melted into her flesh.
If boiling water did that, one can only imagine what damage would occur from flames.
Cotton is not only cooler but it is much safer.
Posted by nickiegarbeil on August 29, 2007 at 10:24 a.m. (Suggest removal)
Meemz,
I have taken a look at Summerville FD, and have been assured that they get what they need. My family member did not wear polyester uniforms. Over the next few weeks, I will be doing more looking into their policies and procedures, but I have been assured by SFF's that they are fully compliant with National Standards. I believe that statement to be truth. SFF seem to be well taken care of, not to say the department is perfect, that doesn't exist, but they seem to be happy, and have the personnel they need. As for Old Fort FD, which is the district I am in, I have yet to ask any of them. I'll let you know.
And you spelled my name perfectly! Great job!
Posted by charlestonian on August 29, 2007 at 10:25 a.m. (Suggest removal)
It can be for monetary reasons. Somehow Joe found the money to buy a prime piece of real estate worth millions to make a memorial out of it.
Posted by nickiegarbeil on August 29, 2007 at 10:29 a.m. (Suggest removal)
Fire_Inspector,
I cannot verify the information given to me on this one, but I am told one of the Chief's has a sticker on his truck/car that says "Rehab is for quitters"...Does that give you an inclination of the mentality of the administration?
Posted by east4 on August 29, 2007 at 10:40 a.m. (Suggest removal)
nickiegarbeil-
that is our training chief ricky shriver. he is the one who trains all new recruits that come in to the dept. So now we are teaching the new probies "rehab is for quitters" and so what do they think of all of this? That was also brought up to the panel. As for the comment- Charleston County Rescue Squad had a rehab unit- well we are a class 1 ISO rated dept. and we don't have one? Anyone besides me see a problem withe that statement?!!
Posted by lyfe1999 on August 29, 2007 at 10:50 a.m. (Suggest removal)
Yes Charlestonian you hit it on the head. It's about money. Firemen had to sue to the city to make it get of the dime. The sanitation workers, streets and sidewalk workers, and other public service workers had to protest and march on City Hall to get the Mayor to come of a dime. Why? Because the Mayor would rather pay the Beach Company $1 Million Dollars a year in General Fund Dollars for Parking Spaces at the Saxs Fifth Avenue Store. He would rather pay $11.2 Million for the Federal Building on Meeting Street so he can "Control Development". The Mayor's priorities are in the wrong place. Instead of pumping money into nonessential services and Real Estate Deals the mare should be using our tax dollars on essential services such as fire, police, drainage, streets and sidewalks, run down park houses, etc... The people of Charleston need to speak loud and clearly on November 6 of this year and send Mayor Riley into retirement.
Posted by nickiegarbeil on August 29, 2007 at 11:09 a.m. (Suggest removal)
East4,
Thank you for the clarifications. I agree with you completely.
Understand I am still working hard on my end...
Thank you, and stay safe.
Posted by traley on August 29, 2007 at 12:35 p.m. (Suggest removal)
I have read and watched in horror as facts have come to light showing the gross negligence of the City of Charleston and the CFD leaders. This is past being about anything but removing the people standing in the way of fixing these serious issues. IF YOU VOTE FOR JOE RILEY YOU ARE SAYING HEY! IT'S OK, THEY WERE ONLY FIREFIGHTERS!! I realize there isn't much in the way of choices for mayor; but for god's sake get rid of Riley. All of us living here witnessed and know how we felt burying those brave 9 men. Don't forget about it November.
Posted by cfdiaffman on August 29, 2007 at 12:38 p.m. (Suggest removal)
I heard we are getting new fire engines, 1 in Dec. and the other in April. I wonder if they will have A/C? The answer is no if Rusty has anything to do with it. I say disable all the A/C's in the Mayor and all chiefs cars and let them get a taste of it. Maybe that would keep Rusty away from fire scenes. That would be a blessing.
Posted by cfdiaffman on August 29, 2007 at 12:47 p.m. (Suggest removal)
traley - I agree with you 1000%.
Posted by charlestonian on August 29, 2007 at 12:49 p.m. (Suggest removal)
So Rusty would rather pull A/C out of new engines so he doesn't have to deal with his staff complaining their engine doesn't have A/C. If that's the case how can we expect him to manage his staff properly if he doesn't even want to deal with his staff that has complaints. Seems a bit childish, not like the caliber of leader that needs to be in a position that important.
Posted by Paul on August 29, 2007 at 12:53 p.m. (Suggest removal)
I was in the Navy when they swiftly withdrew the polyester uniforms in the early 80's, over 25 years ago! The 70's fashion statement is long gone. Riley and his "Buck stops here" attitude should be proof enough its time for him to be put out to pasture, along with his sidekick Rusty ...
Posted by Mayor on August 29, 2007 at 1:13 p.m. (Suggest removal)
I know there is not a qualified person running for Mayor, but we need to get rid of the current one. How about, we sit down and draft someone we know, who can and will do the job. Nobody wants to do it, money is not an inspiration, nor is civic duty. It's like tag, YOU'RE IT. Better than Charleston has now. Time has passed JOE by, bye JOE.
Posted by huntress87 on August 29, 2007 at 1:21 p.m. (Suggest removal)
they sweat, when I asked a friend who is a FF in S FL and he about fell out when I gave him the website here to read up on everything. .. He asked if there were morons running the city and I said, um YES, but we keep relecting the head MORON in charge.. Hopefully that will change.. but really if you look at who is running against him, I am not sure Joe isn't the lesser of TWO evils...
Posted by UberBlitzkrieg on August 29, 2007 at 1:50 p.m. (Suggest removal)
>> I believe that statement to be truth. SFF seem to be well taken care of, not to say the department is perfect, that doesn't exist, but they seem to be happy, and have the personnel they need. As for Old Fort FD, which is the district I am in, I have yet to ask any of them. I'll let you know.
NOW they just need a Chief that has more than a middle school education.
Posted by Boosterhose on August 29, 2007 at 2:08 p.m. (Suggest removal)
Okay I'll drop another dime,
If an Engineer or Assistant Engineer made an error pumping the apparattus Rusty or Shriver would demote him in an instant to prevent any harm coming to the men on the hose lines.
However if your incompetent enough to have men die under your command___________[fill in appropriate response]
Posted by Kerry on August 29, 2007 at 2:29 p.m. (Suggest removal)
Vote: Andy Savage for Mayor!
Posted by WardLaFrance on August 29, 2007 at 4:15 p.m. (Suggest removal)
If anyone read Yow's proposal to the city, you will see where one of the NFPA studies used a Charleston City firefighter in their study of burns related to uniforms.
On January 26, 2002, Ronnie Claussen, a Charleston City Battalion Chief, suffered severe burns while extinguishing a grease fire with a portable extinguisher. His uniform was 100 percent polyester. His injuries required hospitalization and an extended loss of work.
www.wcbd.com/midatlantic/cbd/news.apx.-c...
Posted by FiddlerCrab7 on August 29, 2007 at 4:36 p.m. (Suggest removal)
With the issues continuing to roll out about equipment, uniforms, etc, I truly don't understand the priorities of the city leaders and the chief.
I wasn't aware the role of chief included time during the work week to provide opening comments at a real estate conference:
(Advance to the 2nd-minute mark)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=F98jZCOtC...
http://technorati.com/videos/youtube.com...
http://trademark-properties.com/news/3/8...
Posted by WardLaFrance on August 29, 2007 at 4:44 p.m. (Suggest removal)
Summerville FD really believes in training. They've constructed their own training ground, approved and sanctioned by SCFA. Berkeley County, a very rural county with many more volunteer fire departments than paid departments, has their own training center, also sanctioned by SCFA. People from all over the tri-county utilize these centers instead of having to drive to Columbia for classes. My point here is that local departments believe in training, - even the volunteers who are always searching for funding- manage to clothe and train their personnel as NFPA specifies. Summerville is probably not Class 1 in ISO, but believe me, they are Class ONE in every other aspect. They take pride in their equipment, their uniforms, training, they are respectful of other departments and personnel. A top notch department in all respects. Do they have problems? Yes. Do their problems involve safety of their personnel. Absolutely not.
By the way, if Rusty is so concerned about the appearance of his firemen, why can't he just buy them an iron?
Posted by FIRSTDUE432 on August 29, 2007 at 5:08 p.m. (Suggest removal)
So do CFD guys keep their uniform shirts on under bunker gear or do they shed them prior to donning their gear? Most departments around here that wear those damn shirts have a "fancy" zipper in them for quick removal. The buttons are just for show. Genius! Most of the departments that require those shirts to be worn only require them when you arrive and depart the stations or when out doing businees. I'm thankfull that my uniform consist of BDU's and a t-shirt and the occasional golf shirt. Could you imagine golf shirts in Charleston? Not on Riley's watch!
Posted by WardLaFrance on August 29, 2007 at 5:18 p.m. (Suggest removal)
It's a shame nobody happened to catch Matt Lauer when he was just in Charleston.
Posted by FiddlerCrab7 on August 29, 2007 at 5:45 p.m. (Suggest removal)
Is this the everyday public-facing uniform for CFD brass? (Advance to 2-minute mark)
http://technorati.com/videos/youtube.com...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=F98jZCOtC...
Posted by chucktown on August 29, 2007 at 5:52 p.m. (Suggest removal)
It is pretty sad to find out that many of the recommendations that were outlined several years ago were never implemented for whatever reason. It seems that many of these could have prevented the loss of our 9. Something as simple as a uniform change is...well..pathetic that the safety of our firefighters is compromised.
If I didn't live in St. Andrews PSD I would absolutely vote "Little Joe" out of office. In order for me to do so it would require me to annex into his Kingdom and I am by no means going to do that. There is no going back to the PSD if you annex into the City.
As for Chief Rusty, I really do not know enough of the facts. I do not know if the Mayor trumped him or not...but I feel the Mayor being the highest "authority" should have his head roll. An article by the P&C yesterday I believe alluded to a councilman who made it sound as though Riley had a "dictatorial rule" so to speak when it came to the running of the Fire Dept. Therefore, I am not inclined to pass the blame to Chief Thomas at this time.
Air Conditioning though? That is a pretty straightforward "need" in this climate. We no longer live in the era where automobiles, trucks, offices, and houses do without in the South. It is a necessity especially considering the firefighters are wearing all that extra equipment/clothing.
I feel many items can be addressed prior to an investigation's results being made public and it is asinine to sit by the sidelines and wait.
Posted by FiddlerCrab7 on August 29, 2007 at 6:22 p.m. (Suggest removal)
I am circling back on the discussion about fire rehab. I truly hope it is not frowned upon for CFD.
Heat exhaustion and dehydration are two serious risks that it can help mitigate.
http://www.firerehab.com/
http://www.firerehab.com/tips/284688/
Posted by charleytowngirl on August 29, 2007 at 6:45 p.m. (Suggest removal)
Write letters and emails to the city council members!! If they don't hear from the public about how we feel, they will think everything is ok in their corner of the world.
Most of their email addresses are published on the city of Charleston website.
Write, write, write.....DO IT NOW, before it's too late!
The city council has to hear from us, otherwise they will sit by and let the reports come out. These issues don't required an investigation....it's just commen sense and safety standards!
Posted by meemz on August 29, 2007 at 6:53 p.m. (Suggest removal)
UberBlitzkrieg, I'm curious to know what your comment about the SF Chief is based upon.
Posted by oldcap on August 29, 2007 at 7 p.m. (Suggest removal)
Rusty is tied up with Trademark, right? What was his reason for the talk? Well....nevermind.
Posted by meemz on August 29, 2007 at 7:30 p.m. (Suggest removal)
>>they are Class ONE in every other aspect. They take pride in their equipment, their uniforms, training, they are respectful of other departments and personnel. A top notch department in all respects. Do they have problems? Yes. Do their problems involve safety of their personnel. Absolutely not.
WardLaFrance, What awesome things to say about a neighoring FD! I'm inclined to agree with you. Having been a citizen of the town for many years, I have always thought the SFD was a first class department but wanted to ask in light of everything that has come out since the horrible tragedy! I'm sure the pride you reference at SFD is shared by, and attributed to, ALL - including the Chief. BTW, SFD is an ISO class 3. Regarding Berkeley County rurals also having their own training ground, I am floored! Not because they have the facilities but because they do and the city of Charleston can't even provide safe uniforms for their men! CFD FFs, my praise for SFD is in no way meant to take away from you men or the quality of work you put forth; instead, it is a direct relection upon the absolute blatant,negligence the Chief and/or the Mayor have/has exhibited towards the department! I do not understand why, with what has been revealed (and you can bet it's just the tip of the iceburg), Rusty Thomas and Joe Riley aren't on administrative leave pending the investigation of the allegations! I asked this question a while back and don't know if anyone posted a reply: Wouldn't any recommendations Rusty Thomas ever made to the mayor, on behalf of the CFD, be on record somewhere along with the mayor's decisions?
Posted by WardLaFrance on August 29, 2007 at 7:49 p.m. (Suggest removal)
Unfortunately, this is what everyone has been saying since the fire- The CFD leadership is a disgrace. Unfortunately we're all getting tired of saying the same old thing again and again and having it fall upon deaf ears. Rusty is failing his department and the citizens of Charleston by not immediately making changes to ensure the safety of his personnel. The lack of training is an embarrassment. The antiquated firefighting tactics risk those FF. Mayor Riley is too concerned with re-election and not concerned enough about the people who work for the city.
If you want to see how it is done, look at the surrounding departments. Summerville, Mt. Pleasant, N. Charleston, James Island, Johns Island, Sullivan's Island, IOP- Then look at the volunteer departments. Never, ever, is safety compromised for the sake of a LaZy Boy Recliner. But no matter what we say here, we can't seem to make a dent in the hard heads of some of the council members, the mayor, and Rusty, who I refuse to dignify with the title of chief. I've made phone calls. I've written letters. I've posted here- the same as other folks here. I'm afraid, like Harpo said, we have to catch the eye of a national news program. I don't know what else to do.
Posted by charleytowngirl on August 29, 2007 at 8:02 p.m. (Suggest removal)
Then let's start an email campaign to 60 minutes, Dateline, 20/20...Start emailing the governor's office.
It's almost like Riley wants to keep this as some horrible family secret that should not get out in the public. Guess what, Mayor, we know alot of the dirty little secrets about things that went down at this fire and all of the problems with the leadership in the department. The P&C has done a great job of reporting on this story, as has the guy that runs FirefighterHourly.Com. You haven't been able to hide them from public view, but now we need NATIONAL attention to these issues. Then maybe you will be embarrassed enough to do something, Mayor.
I'd love to see the look on the Mayor's face when 60 minutes comes knocking!
Posted by exorcist_pencocky on August 29, 2007 at 8:17 p.m. (Suggest removal)
charleytowngirl ->
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/19617693/
Posted by exorcist_pencocky on August 29, 2007 at 8:20 p.m. (Suggest removal)
Oreilly@foxnews.com <Oreilly@foxnews.com>
Posted by exorcist_pencocky on August 29, 2007 at 8:21 p.m. (Suggest removal)
Hannity@foxnews.com <Hannity@foxnews.com>
Posted by FiddlerCrab7 on August 29, 2007 at 8:24 p.m. (Suggest removal)
I have tried contacting various national media, thinking they would at least write a follow-up story on the initial report. No response yet. They may need to hear from more voices and from different angles.
Posted by exorcist_pencocky on August 29, 2007 at 8:26 p.m. (Suggest removal)
Ontherecord@foxnews.com <Ontherecord@foxnews.com>
Posted by charleytowngirl on August 29, 2007 at 8:31 p.m. (Suggest removal)
Oh Wow! Thank you exorcist_pencocky. You made my life easier!
Posted by exorcist_pencocky on August 29, 2007 at 9:09 p.m. (Suggest removal)
Harpo - You looking over my shoulder? You described my process to a tee. Same email sent to more than a dozen news sites in America, this morning. Also a few in the rest of the world.
Try and book a vacation to the city of charleston through Thomas Cook agency and see what happens.
Posted by charleytowngirl on August 29, 2007 at 9:11 p.m. (Suggest removal)
Excellent tips, Harpo. Thank you very much!
Posted by ssm on August 29, 2007 at 9:14 p.m. (Suggest removal)
http://www.live5news.com/news/state/9455...
Posted by FiddlerCrab7 on August 29, 2007 at 9:22 p.m. (Suggest removal)
Don't forget to mention automatic response guidelines for hospitals, schools, and hotels. Also, some hotels are grandfathered without sprinklers.
Posted by WardLaFrance on August 29, 2007 at 9:35 p.m. (Suggest removal)
I'm in.
Posted by intheknow on August 29, 2007 at 9:38 p.m. (Suggest removal)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=F98jZCOtC...
For a politician to politize a tragedy is bad enough. For the Chief of the department to commercialize this is shameful.
Posted by meemz on August 29, 2007 at 9:52 p.m. (Suggest removal)
I hope this works. I did email Bill O'Reilly last week with links so "he could be the judge." ha! I'll continue to email to all that I can find, though, in hopes of drawing national attention. Surely, someone-somewhere will finally pick up the story and run with it!
Posted by meemz on August 29, 2007 at 9:54 p.m. (Suggest removal)
oldcap, are you able to elaborate on Trademark?
Posted by hawneena on August 29, 2007 at 10:29 p.m. (Suggest removal)
Get Matt Lauer to interview Rusty Thomas. He will go for the throat and not back down.
Posted by rjahopp on August 29, 2007 at 10:40 p.m. (Suggest removal)
PREDICTIONS: Joseph P. Riley will be re-elected. Chief Thomas will be exonerated. Asst. Chief Garvin to retire. CFD retains ISO 1 rating; Summerville, Mt. Pleasant, N. Charleston, James Island, Johns Island, Sullivan's Island, fire departments, etc. may continue to work to improve their ISO ratings.
The CFD uniforms will be changed. The rehab bumper sticker, if it exists, will disappear. AC will likely be on any new trucks. Any case brought against Charleston / CFD will likely fail as well as any against Goldstein, the fire door and furniture mfgs., etc. (do not see any apparent torts re the SSS tragedy).
All of these are local issues; death got national attention but mayoral elections, uniforms, AC trucks, bumper stickers, etc. have little or no national interest; 60 Minutes will not come knocking. R. Menchaca and G. Smith will neither be nominated for nor receive a Pulitzer Prize for journalism.
No descendants of Lincoln, Grant or any other Yankee subversive will be mayor of Charleston any time in the near future (the carpetbaggers need to acquire considerably more Low Country property first).
Posted by meemz on August 29, 2007 at 10:41 p.m. (Suggest removal)
Nevermind about Trademark - I read it on Firefighter Hourly.
Posted by meemz on August 29, 2007 at 10:52 p.m. (Suggest removal)
rjahopp, your predictions seem to heavily resemble riley's dictatorship! Do you have a direct line to the mayor or does the rj of rjahopp stand for riley,joe?
Posted by exorcist_pencocky on August 29, 2007 at 10:53 p.m. (Suggest removal)
bill.bortzfield@jacksonville.com (Florida times union - Jacksonville) News manager.
http://www.mondotimes.com/1/world/us/
This web site shows all media TV or print, worldwide.
Posted by exorcist_pencocky on August 29, 2007 at 11:16 p.m. (Suggest removal)
Very perceptive of you meemz. You may be right. He did seem like a wet squib.
Posted by fyrmnjim on August 29, 2007 at 11:17 p.m. (Suggest removal)
rjahopp, your still an idiot.
Posted by FiddlerCrab7 on August 30, 2007 at 2:40 a.m. (Suggest removal)
There are several angles that make this a universal tragedy:
-- The nation's infrastructure is showing signs of strain and potential neglect. Infrastructure issues may have contributed to recent national tragedies: the bridge collapse, the mine tragedies, and the SSS fire. Is our country investing its resources in the right ways to protect public safety? This could apply to any community.
-- It has been a horrible summer for fire professionals, ranging from this week's tragic fire in Roxbury, to the NYC Deutsche Bank deaths and injuries, to the Charleston SSS fire, among others. How can we mitigate the risk for fire fighters? Universally, should sprinkler laws be strengthened or impact fees be reduced? What about synthetic materials in our furniture -- who wants their couch to be a fire hazard? Should building inspections and safety be enforced more thoroughly, including standpipes and building codes? Have we applied what we learned from 9/11 and other LODDs? What about aggressive practices?
http://seattletimes.nwsource.com/html/sn...
-- Charleston ranks nationally in various aspects of tourism, i.e. hotels, restaurants, golf, etc and it is a popular international destination. Tourists should know what they're getting into when they stay in hotels, in terms of automatic response and no sprinklers in some cases (where grandfathered in). This question can be asked about staying in any tourist destination or city, whether its London, England, Montego Bay, Jamaica, or Greenville, SC.
http://www.nfsa.org/news/greenville_tria...
-- Charleston is a tale of two cities, with marble updates to City Hall and a tunnel under a highway for golf carts, and yet doesn't appear to support its fire safety infrastructure. Polyester uniforms, lower training budget than surrounding departments, and no AC in fire trucks are examples. The dual-edged sword of Haves and Have-Nots is slicing deeper into our country's roots these days -- not just in Charleston.
-- This is an incredibly tragic human story that people can empathize with universally. Nine ff would be a terrible loss to any community. If the mining collapse was covered nationally for so many days (and I'm not saying it didn't deserve the attention -- it was tragic), then follow-up on the SSS fire seems timely and appropriate, especially in lieu of the release of the tapes and prelim report.
- There are precedents for LODD settlements that are tied to improvements in city safety and infrastructure
http://www.marlerclark.com/news/terlicke...
http://www.marlerclark.com/news/terlicke...
Posted by nickiegarbeil on August 30, 2007 at 8:58 a.m. (Suggest removal)
You know...with National attention, potential tourists might think twice about whether or not it is safe to visit here...the potential loss of tourism could be a horrendous blow.
However, what I find more disgusting and troubling is that these men are so oppressed that they have no one they can safely vent to. No trust system. The fear is that this will continue to have lasting effects of this tragedy because they fear retribution over speaking about it.
Posted by nickiegarbeil on August 30, 2007 at 10:48 a.m. (Suggest removal)
The City would do well to think of the bad publicity it could bring and the potential ramifications....Just food for thought.
Posted by FiddlerCrab7 on August 30, 2007 at 11:41 a.m. (Suggest removal)
Another universal tie-in is the unfolding tragedy in Greece. The world should take time to honor the sacrifice of all ff brothers and sisters.
Posted by nickiegarbeil on August 30, 2007 at 12:45 p.m. (Suggest removal)
Everyday that the citizens ignore these stories and fail to come forward in letters, emails, and phone calls, is another day we are risking the lives of our Firefighters. What will it take people?
Does it only matter when it effects YOUR family directly?
Posted by nickiegarbeil on August 30, 2007 at 12:51 p.m. (Suggest removal)
I have received word that our Council members mailboxes(email, and physical mail) largely sit empty most of the time. Inaction is what created this tragedy. Failure of people to speak up and be heard will perpetuate more tragedies in the future. Instead of being afraid of the confrontation, you should be looking in the mirrors and be ASHAMED of what you see...
Shame on you Charlestonians for doing nothing..you should be mad as HE**, and tired of the lies and sidestepping. The next tragedy will have bigger ramifications and more blame to share...
Posted by WardLaFrance on August 30, 2007 at 3:11 p.m. (Suggest removal)
To the rest of the "Fire Brigade" Here's a good address! I've started my brief already:
Keeping Them Honest
It's what we're about at "360°." It includes challenging authority, whistleblowers, corruption. And we want your help. Please send us your tips with enough detail for us to investigate them. You can send your tips anonymously or provide a way for us to contact you.
• Send your "Keeping them honest" tip
http://www.cnn.com/CNN/Programs/anderson...
Posted by FiddlerCrab7 on August 30, 2007 at 7:19 p.m. (Suggest removal)
Great contacts and links. Thanks.
Posted by sctruckie on August 31, 2007 at 12:05 a.m. (Suggest removal)
Everyone here is preaching to the choir. I am not in Charleston, or know anyone there personally, but for God's sake, get up and DO something about it. When is the cutoff date to run for mayor? Don't complain about the choices...BE ONE. Half of your firefighters belong to one of the oldest and most successful labor organizations in the US, dare I say the world, and you can't get support for the candidate of your choosing? The great thing about this country is anyone can run for almost any office. Any decent well meaning human being has to be better than this guy!! I have no qualifications other than my brotherhood and my Clemson degree, if you can find someone to fund a campaign, heck[sic], if you can just get enough votes to make a go of it, I WILL DO IT! Please, people, step up to the plate and don't leave it for someone else. We don't wait for someone else to run into the fires...Why won't we step up when it's our house on fire?!
Posted by nickiegarbeil on August 31, 2007 at 12:35 p.m. (Suggest removal)
sctruckie,
It doesn't matter if you are in Charleston anymore...we can and will put you to work...If you are truly interested, pm me with contact information, or I will send you mine and you can contact me back...
We want National Attention...that means we enlist people Nationally..we have some already, we want more...
Posted by firecop967 on August 31, 2007 at 1:57 p.m. (Suggest removal)
Firefighters work for the little pay we get... I have never seen someone who does a job that gets him dirty wearing a 3 piece suit. A tee shirt and shirts are fine in the summer and a tee shirt and long cotton pants for winter. When you make your works feel good about the job they are doing they make the supervisor look good, then there is no need in playing the politics of it all.
Posted by norv on August 31, 2007 at 2:27 p.m. (Suggest removal)
Hi, I'm Joe Riley and I'm running for Mayor!
Do you like the way things are in Charleston? That's too Bad, because I've been Mayor for 32 years and I'll be Mayor until I die.
Besides, I've raised your Taxes, built me a baseball stadium and an aquarium, and believe me, there's much more on the way. I will acquire land to build new parks in strange places and I will annex James Island whether they like it or not (Edisto Island will be next).
There is a lot of things I still need to do around here and the first thing is to build a new Coliseum to outdo the one Mayor Summney built in North Charleston. Or, I could just turn North Charleston into part of Charleston and rename the Coliseum in my name. Yea, that might be cheaper. Did I say cheaper?... I better stick with the first plan.
If any money is left over, I promise to buy new hats for the Fire Department.
So, please vote (and vote often) for me so I can build more memorials to myself and remember, Only You Can Prevent Forest Fires.
Posted by FiddlerCrab7 on August 31, 2007 at 2:49 p.m. (Suggest removal)
Dear Norv, you are too humble about your mayoral accomplishments. City Hall has improved marble and decorative seals, while golfers have their own $2 million traffic tunnel on a municipal course.
http://www.charleston.net/photos/galleri...
Posted by east4 on August 31, 2007 at 2:52 p.m. (Suggest removal)
Well we are getting new uniforms all of the sudden. Rusty and the so called "mayor" have said that our uniforms are fine and do not need to be changed. Now all of the sudden the mayor not rusty comes out and says that they will be changed immediately. Now to what we have no idea. But you can bet we, as the people who will have to wear them, ride around in trucks with no A/C will have no say so in what we wear. I bet we will still be the best dressed FD in the nation. Hey how about t-shirts and plain blue pants for the summer and in the winter we could wear Duty shirts or even sweat shirts. There are other depts. in Sc that wear them. Why can't we? Hey Joe how about not re-inventing the wheel, look at what Columbia, Greenville, and Charlotte does and put into effect here. If it works there then I bet it will work here too.
Another thing to let you know how rusty is doing with the changes- He is going around to the stations and telling us that he will change a few things, like buy 3 inch hose but other than that he is not making anymore changes. People of Charleston unite- Call the mayors office and demand rusty be put on the street immediately. He is telling us that we still do not matter to him. And everything in rustys world is still good and he is still the KING!!
Again I say we need your help now. Please call joe and demand something be done with the IDIOT that is in charge!!
Posted by vesta on August 31, 2007 at 9:46 p.m. (Suggest removal)
From an article posted on SCONFIRE: "Riley said they are safe because firefighters wear protective gear at fire scenes anyway. He also said the uniforms were approved by the state Occupational Safety and Health Administration three years ago.
"Nevertheless, I believe it is important to allay any safety concerns with regard to these uniforms for our firefighters," he said.
Riley said the city, working with outside experts reviewing department procedures after the Sofa Super Store fire, will probably decide on a new uniform material next week.
"We haven't picked out the exact material," he said.
Firefighters at a fire scene wear protective clothing and with it "you could have on your pajamas if you answered a call at three in the morning," he said. "Be that as it may, I don't want any question about our firefighters' safety, period." "
OK, I don't want to be picky, but the gear is also antiquated. If, Mayor Riley, you truly "don't want any question about our firefighters' safety, period," you might also want to look into newer protective gear for the CFD
firefighters (the ones who actually go into the fire--not the ones who stand outside the building). Yes, that does mean more money. Yes the firefighters who are risking THEIR lives for YOUR city are worth it.
Posted by nickiegarbeil on August 31, 2007 at 10:46 p.m. (Suggest removal)
Vesta,
I agree...I mean Rusty has the top of the line bunker gear, from what the guys tell me...and he doesn't get close to the fire at all...hmmmmmmm...that doesn't make much sense does it?
Posted by fyrmnjim on August 31, 2007 at 11:21 p.m. (Suggest removal)
east4, New uniforms will be a nice plus for you guys. But, no changes that are made will mean a hill of beans if the CFD continues to have such gross incompetent leadership. If another SSS fire occurs tomorrow, those same morons will still have no clue as to what to do and you and your brothers will be put at risk again.
Posted by charlestonclemsonfan on September 1, 2007 at 1:04 a.m. (Suggest removal)
everyone needs to quit giving ROGER YOW all his props because he is an IDIOT and does NOT talk over all of his decisions with his supposed union before he employes his mouth bercause most of them dont know about it until they see or hear it in the NEWSLESS POST AND COURIER or the local news,besides ask YOW what formal schooling he has check his credentials i am sure they are not that great only has OJT from the Charleston Fire Department,before anyone can throw stones they need to check information sources because the ones the NEWSLESS COURIER uses cant even spell FIREFIGHTER much less be one
Posted by nickiegarbeil on September 1, 2007 at 1:29 a.m. (Suggest removal)
WOW....PUNCTUATION dude...what did you just say??? Nevermind, I am sure it isn't worth repeating...
Posted by Boosterhose on September 1, 2007 at 1:35 a.m. (Suggest removal)
If I was an idiot I would try to indentify with clemson so when I spouted stupidity half the rednecks wouldn't want to kick my but. Hey is that the short bus? You'd better hurry along.
Posted by Fire_Inspector on September 2, 2007 at 8:37 p.m. (Suggest removal)
"3 inch hose" WTF? 3" hose is 70s era tech. Go for 5" hose. Once you work with it at a few major fires you will absolutely be sold. Really. I can remember making the transition in the mid 80s and how grumpy we were at first. Sorta like we were when we took the booster hoses OFF the engines.
"the uniforms were approved by the state Occupational Safety and Health Administration three years ago." BULLS#it! OSHA approves nothing. They DO sometimes tell you that something isn't against the law as far as they can tell. And OSHA has exactly ZERO in their scope of duties to call Charleston and tell them something changed. Thats why you have a "Safety Manager" or equivalent on staff. Thsi should be someone with a Masters or PhD in safety. Not some good old boy...
Fire_Inspector <-- Is an "authorized OSHA instructor"
Posted by ssm on September 2, 2007 at 10:32 p.m. (Suggest removal)
Fire_Inspector: Here's the 2nd article link.
http://www.charleston.net/news/2007/sep/...
Posted by FiddlerCrab7 on September 2, 2007 at 11:18 p.m. (Suggest removal)
While general safety and strucural training seems a major priority, shouldn't the city also put some emphasis ICS/MIMS?
I understand it has negatives and positives, but isn't it an executive order, with potential penalties of losing federal grants? Or is NIMS being met, and the chief just made the statement that he was unaware of the national standards?
http://www.scemd.org/Library/NIMS/intro....
http://www.fema.gov/txt/nims/institution...
http://www.charleston.net/news/2007/jun/...
http://www.fema.gov/pdf/emergency/nims/n...
How is the apparatus situation? Are there some potential challenges/ access issues that could be addressed with quints/towers/tractor-drawn aerials/ short-wheel based trucks?
There are undoubtedly tight places and logistical challenges out there. You can see how hard it is just to get Engine #3 out of the firehouse.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tDgChIQdX...
Posted by Fire_Inspector on September 3, 2007 at 6:01 p.m. (Suggest removal)
1) State OSHA has no obligation to do Charlestons work for them. Charleston requires a FULL TIME PROFESSONAL safety manager.
2) this manager needs to report direct to the mayor.
3) You have to pay for what you are getting. $75000 a year AT LEAST for someone with little experience. REALLY, a CITY safety manager should be paid about what the Police and Fire Cheifs make. The FD safety officer should make about what a Battallion chief makes...
4) The point is that you HAVE to spend money to have someone working fulltime to make the FD and city safe. And tey willl require supporting expenditures. Like a copy of the FULL set of NFPA standards with the update service (EXPENSIVE).
5) I could go on.
Posted by OldChasFirefighter on September 4, 2007 at 8:14 a.m. (Suggest removal)
Fire_Inspector
I believe that several years ago I saw where the city was looking for either a safety person or someone in risk management. So they might actually have someone for the city.
Friday I called OSHA and talked to Dottie Ison,not realizing that she had been dealing with the mayor earlier that day. She did not seem to be in the best of moods, but I wanted to remind her of the General Duty Clause.
I think it should be addressed in their investigation. What do you think about the GDC?
Posted by Fire_Inspector on September 4, 2007 at 10:16 a.m. (Suggest removal)
The general duty clause would be great for this, if for no reason other than there is no special standard for municipal firefighters.
Section 5(a)(1) of the OSH Act, often referred to as the General Duty Clause, requires employers to "furnish to each of his employees employment and a place of employment which are free from recognized hazards that are causing or are likely to cause death or serious physical harm to his employees".
1910 is general industry
1926 is construction
there is one for longshoremen and so on.
For example:
http://www.osha.gov/pls/oshaweb/owadisp....
The problem is that OSHA is NOT mandatory for governmental employment. OSHA specifically exempts the government in most states. Fed OSHA ignores local governments entirely.
Posted by OldChasFirefighter on September 4, 2007 at 10:54 a.m. (Suggest removal)
I agree, but I believe this is all covered by the SC OSHA.
On down in the general duty clause training is also covered, along with the fact that Safe or best working practices were not followed, I will be disapointed if the report does not cover these things.
Posted by FiddlerCrab7 on September 4, 2007 at 3:46 p.m. (Suggest removal)
Would not wearing full PPE on or around an active fireground matter in either case?
F7
Posted by Fire_Inspector on September 5, 2007 at 9:58 a.m. (Suggest removal)
OldChasFirefighter
OSHA does NOT cover municipal, Federal or state employees, by statute.
Their standards CAN be used to determine what is resonable or oridnary. BUT, OSHA standards lag WAY behind the "state of the art." For example, the OSHA standards for chemical exposures are nowhere as complete or up to date as the ACGIH standards for BEI/PELs in the applicable handbook.
Keeping up to date with reference books and education is EXPENSIVE and time consuming.
Fiddler Crab. Charleson FF don't wear their full ppe anyway. Look at the fireground pictures. PEople in shorts running around. Chiefs with little or no PPE on. Firefighters climbing the tower ladder without full ppe. Basically they a ren't wearing the full envelope of protection so they weren't in compliance with the OSHA letter anyway. Wearing nylon or poly clothes while firefighting or doing any kind of hot work (like welding) is just stupid.
Posted by mrjim224 on September 25, 2007 at 11:50 p.m. (Suggest removal)
We wore polyester uniforms back in the 70's and 80's, finally going to 100% COTTON. GO WITH COTTON! All it takes is an iron, every fire house has a few cans of spray starch and the uniform looks great! Plus, with high outside temps, when the heat index went over 90 degrees, it was OK to respond with the official FD tee shirt. Once on location, you put on the full turn out gear (fires, car accidents and as needed). Assisting the medics on an ambulance call mostly wearing the tee shirts. But no a/c in the engines and the heat... when we finally got a/c, what a difference! Cooler, ready to go, not exhausted by the time you arrive on location, cooling off during a break, etc. Go with 100% COTTON! You can get twice the uniforms with cotton as you can with the "Nomex" type work uniforms. The "Nomex" type cloth is heavy, hot and way expensive. Don't let them talk you into the hotter, heavier cloth. Oh, and start a campaign to get rid of the Mayor. That is the first step to progress. You guys CAN do it!