Posted by huntress87 on August 11, 2007 at 2:46 a.m. (Suggest removal)

u think this is going to cause more problems.. YOU think.. The fact that part of the FF did not get a chance to hear the tapes is nothing. We are talking about a situation that is nothing but emotional.

Posted by underdog on August 11, 2007 at 8:03 a.m. (Suggest removal)

Thanks to the reporters covering this story, as it adds even more to this tragic/heroic event.

Regardless of what the FF union thinks, they can't stop the process of a FOIA request. I think the city did the responsible thing by holding a private screening for families. I hope the families were better off hearing about it there than from the press.

I know that every time I see a fire truck I think of this event and wish them well, and I hope the families still realize that most of the folks around here feel the same way.

Posted by FF2172 on August 11, 2007 at 8:07 a.m. (Suggest removal)

Whoever the webmaster is that setup the audio links need to be fired. I have only been successful getting one link to play. Quicktime is the worst player on the web.

Posted by poorboy on August 11, 2007 at 9:24 a.m. (Suggest removal)

Still amazing to me that 9 men lost their lives on that horrible day. I cannot understand one thing, why are roads not cut off when the fire fighters hose lines are ran? Why is it that people are allowed to drive by??? Or IS this personnel, trucks on the secene doing this? Any firemem that can offer an explanation? Northwoods Assembly burned to the ground and that was a complaint by fire fighters on the ground.

Posted by UberBlitzkrieg on August 11, 2007 at 9:39 a.m. (Suggest removal)

Wav files of the tapes are at www.sconfire.com

Much easier to listen to.

Posted by truthseeker on August 11, 2007 at 10:07 a.m. (Suggest removal)

The city and the newspaper did the right thing. The tapes are public and should be released -=even though it is emotional - we do live in an open society.

Posted by ageconjon on August 11, 2007 at 10:25 a.m. (Suggest removal)

The article on Saturday about the firefighters calls
being released was definitely a difficult article to
write and I am sure that much careful thought went
into it. However, it was clearly ruined by the
unbelievably distasteful full page advertisement that
appeared directly after the conclusion of the article.
I cannot believe that a SOFA SUPER STORE "Summer Sale"
ad was placed adjacent to such a sensitive piece. My
question is, WHAT WERE YOU THINKING?!

I feel for the firefighters, friends and family and
for the Sofa Super Store which has done it best to be
respectful of the situation. Someone should have to
answer some serious questions about Post and Courier's
choice of placement of this advertisement.

Posted by robeweise on August 11, 2007 at 10:31 a.m. (Suggest removal)

Hey poorboy, I was eating at Red Lobster when the fire started. I live down Savannah Highway by Farmfield. When we came home they had the highway blocked off in front of Dupont down past Wappoo. I'd say this was maby 20 minutes or so into the fire. I can't tell you exactly when they blocked off the street but I'm sure they didn't wait too long.

Posted by Harpo on August 11, 2007 at 10:34 a.m. (Suggest removal)

One thing evident from the start: the fire crews
need training on how to make more effective
communications on a radio. This sounded like a
bunch of bubba truckers on a CB instead of a
professional fire fighting company.

I also didn't hear any roll calls being
performed. Calls do not include the identity
of the caller or the intended destination and
are haphazardly made; the speech is too rapid
to be clearly heard and often is shouted into
the mike.

Training on radio communications is badly
needed for this organization.

Posted by vesta on August 11, 2007 at 10:58 a.m. (Suggest removal)

As I posted on the site yesterday, note the line: "Riley acknowledged the importance of the tapes to the public's understanding of the fires and efforts to PREVENT similar tragedies. PREVENT is the operative word meaning to study the situation and correct mistakes so that it won't happen in the future. Gosh, Mayor Riley, your initial statements after the fire, was that everything was handled correctly by a top notch ISO 1 fire department. Change your mind, did you??? Gee, I wonder why?????

Posted by paulleah on August 11, 2007 at 11:28 a.m. (Suggest removal)

The audio files on Charleston.net are all in MP3 format. Despite the note saying you need Quicktime, any computer that has MP3 capability will work fine.

If you are having problems listening to the audio, it may be because of the overwhelming demand for the files.

We regret any confusion that may have caused.

--Admin

Posted by bickleseagrave on August 11, 2007 at 11:53 a.m. (Suggest removal)

Although I believe lack of command and control was a major issue at this fire, those of you that are not firefighters listening to these recordings need to understand something.
Communications are always difficult at the best of times at a fire scene. The radios are being operated in a hostile environment, most of the time with the operator trying to talk through a breathing apparatus mask. You may also not understand some of the firefighters short forms, codes or jargon which are used. Just be aware the communications difficulties are the scourge of pretty well all of the fire service, not just Charleston!
As far as the content, that's something different!

Posted by Harpo on August 11, 2007 at 12:24 p.m. (Suggest removal)

The use of a preliminary identifier which
simply states the destination and origin of
the transmission is an effective element in
all radio comms. Example: "Command, Smith,
my water pressure is good, over" spoken
clearly, not shouted makes comms much more
effective.

Now is not the time to respond to suggestions
with "it's always been this way" because
clearly there is need for change. We just
heard it.

Posted by gmarshall on August 11, 2007 at 12:41 p.m. (Suggest removal)

re: soundfiles/quality

all SCONFIRE.COM have done are:

1) Linked back to the Charleston.net audio clips
2) Download each MP3 file from Charleston.net (they're in a generic MP3 format, not quicktime), converted it to WAV and put it on their own site.

therefore - the audio quality is exactly same, mainly due to the fact that it's the same file. if anything, the WAV's will take longer to stream/download because an MP3 is roughly the tenth of the size of a WAV.

Posted by nickolas on August 11, 2007 at 1:01 p.m. (Suggest removal)

I thought it was very poor judgement to have the Super Sofa Store Sale Ad in the newspaper on the next page after the story honoring these brave firefighters. When you open the paper to page 4A you also can't help but see the large full page Super Sofa Sale Ad on page 5A. These two pages should have never been displayed together. Sorry Post & Courier you sure messed this up. I believe you should print an apology for this poor judgement.

Posted by donnasharon26 on August 11, 2007 at 2:06 p.m. (Suggest removal)

Of course these firefighters went thru training on how to use proper etiquette and transmissions. However, when you are in a situation like that one, it all goes out of the window. At that moment all you are thinking about is your life. At this point let the family greive. And stop posting negative comments. Unfortunatley, a tragedy like this has to happen in order for someone the realize that changeed need to be made.

Posted by carolinabeachgirl on August 11, 2007 at 2:46 p.m. (Suggest removal)

I think that the Post & Courier lacked a great deal of class and consideration when they placed the full page Sofa Super Store ad next to this story.

Posted by seenit on August 11, 2007 at 4:36 p.m. (Suggest removal)

This is a classic newspaper gotcha. The news department is separate from the ad department. They don't necessary coordinate their activities. Thus the occasional off-putting juxtaposition.

Posted by east4 on August 11, 2007 at 4:38 p.m. (Suggest removal)

The only thing we are taught about the radios as firefighters is do not use them unless necessary. As you move up in rank the only training you have is watching what the officer you are working for does. There is no formal training on radio etiquette. And that is just the tip of the ice berg.

Posted by A911Chick on August 11, 2007 at 5:17 p.m. (Suggest removal)

Offering the families the chance to hear the tapes is one thing, but unfortunately the general publics need to be entertained is just ghoulish. How would you feel if your loved one was lost in a tragedy, their last words being debated the masses? Enough is enough. Maybe Paris or Nicole will get arrest for drunk driving again, that's always BIG news.

Posted by Harpo on August 11, 2007 at 5:19 p.m. (Suggest removal)

Agree and it's pretty evident. The radio
procedures are easy to teach and the training
isn't expensive. Practice will make the comms
much more effective. In the navy, we practiced
IC communications so that when there was a fire,
it was all automatic. I've been in a submarine
fire, so don't tell me what it's like. We
put the power panel fire out amid dark smoke
inside of ten minutes before ventilating the
ship at PD. Proper communications are a must
and you can't tell me this fire department
can't accomplish that.

It's the way it is now because the training
hasn't been done. Change it. No excuses.

Posted by BattChiefNCFD on August 11, 2007 at 7:27 p.m. (Suggest removal)

To: A911Chick
While I agree that some people who listen to the tapes will do so in order to feed a sick need within themselves. Many people who listen are fellow firefighters. We want to listen to the tapes to get an understanding of exactly what went on during the fire in order to establish a time line for actions taking place on-scene. So from that perspective, it is very important for the tapes to be heard. Unfortunately, many of the things on the tapes could potentially add additional fuel to the current debates ongoing. While I have refrained from posting any comments on this and many other sights, it is my feeling that no one but our brothers from CFD should be making comments about what went on, changes that need to be made, and the feelings both positive as well as negative towards the fire department administration and the city administration until after the official report has been published. While many of my brother firefighters (myself included) certainly have questions and comments concerning this fire, I feel they should be directed to CFD brothers privately, and not aired in an open format as the message boards being found on the net. I do agree that as a result of this terrible tragedy, many changes should be made, but not only within the CFD, but in all fire departments within the Tri-County Area, as well as across the US. For EVERY department within the US to not take this incident and learn from it would without a doubt do a disservice to the 9 brothers who perished, and in my opinion would make their sacrifice in vain.

Joseph A. Varella
Battalion Chief
North Charleston Fire Department

Posted by FF40212 on August 11, 2007 at 7:49 p.m. (Suggest removal)

I agree with you 100% Chief Varella.

Thank you.

Posted by Harpo on August 11, 2007 at 7:53 p.m. (Suggest removal)

Chief Varella,
your problem is with the Post & Courier which has
provided this page for public commentary. There
are constructive ideas to be had from every
sector in this affair, not just from firefighters.
We pay your salaries and our thoughts and comments
are being hosted here. Thanks for your input.

Posted by Radiowave on August 11, 2007 at 8:47 p.m. (Suggest removal)

I also agree with Chief Varella and praise him for clearly identifying himself. It's a bit self serving to say that the public has some inherent right to express their opinion to a professional civil servant because "we pay your salaries." The armchair fire chiefs need to sit down and be quiet. Let's wait until the experts release their findings and then we can come together as a community to move forward and best implement their recommendations.

I listened to the tapes to help me understand the sacrifice of these incredibly brave firefighters - I cried when I heard the mayday and then the call to Chief Thomas to "tell my wife I love her." This is an important part of healing our community, and yes, they deserve every penny we pay them.

John - James Island

Posted by Harpo on August 11, 2007 at 9:05 p.m. (Suggest removal)

This webpage is managed by the Post & Courier
for the general public to make comments
regarding the Sofa Super Store tragedy and is
not subject to censorship by you or anybody
else. If you have a problem with the comments,
contact the webmaster for Charleston.net and
complain to him.

We intend to continue to comment among ourselves
with due respect for the solemness of the
occasion. With respect and sympathy, your
requests for the public to be silent on this
matter here are inappropriate.

Posted by kab1976 on August 11, 2007 at 9:15 p.m. (Suggest removal)

While I feel that the public has a right to know things, we don't need to know EVERYTHING. Chief Varella is right in saying that the tapes should be used for investigational purposes and for the families' closure, and not for the public's and the media's constant analyzation.

And speaking of, I do realize and I do honor these 9 fallen firefighters as heroes, but I wonder and have to ask...why are they only heroes AFTER they have passed? Why are the firefighters, policemen and military not honored as heroes within the community and in the media spotlight EVERYDAY? Why does it take a tragedy like this to bring the special things they do to light? Why do we not share a fireman's story, or tell of day in the life of a policeman on the news everyday? Why not Post & Courier??

Posted by Harpo on August 11, 2007 at 9:28 p.m. (Suggest removal)

I believe also that airing the tapes is very
indelicate and would much prefer a transcript
of the radio transmissions to actually hearing
these clips. There's too much emotion connected
with them.

My comment about paying the salaries of
firefighters meant only to convey that we are
entitled, as the public, to participate in
these discussions and express our opinions
when invited to do so. We have, in fact, been
invited to do so on this site.

Posted by vesta on August 11, 2007 at 9:59 p.m. (Suggest removal)

kab1976: If you have read all of the comment sites after all of the articles have appeared about the SSS fire and all of the related material, you would know that almost all of us view all ffs (not just the brave nine who died) as heroes. That is why we are taking our time to ask specific questions about this fire; that is why many of us have written to the mayor and city council and asked for a review panel; that is why we have written to the mayor and city council asking for progressive changes in the CFD. Many who post on this site are ffs (retired or current) and they listened to these tapes and thought it sounded like total chaos. Those ffs who did NOT die in that fire are also heroes. But what is most important is that we want them to go on living long, productive lives. As posted before, ffs (or any one else) do not have to die to be heroes. Nine men died in that fire....that is not normal. I don't know about you, but I want LIVE heroes, not dead ones.

Posted by charleytowngirl on August 11, 2007 at 10:16 p.m. (Suggest removal)

With all due respect to you, Chief Varella and to others that agree with your opinion (I agree with some of your points as well and respect your opinion), this forum has been a much needed outlet for many members of the fire service from the CFD (and others across the country) that could not speak out for fear of retribution. Many citizens, such as myself are concerned about this tragedy and wondered how something like this could happen. Unfortunately, we don't really have to wait on the official reports now do we? Even the lay person can read the stories, watch the videos and listen to the news to see that something very bad is happening with the leadership and training in this department and we are concerned enough to want to be heard loud and clear so that another tragedy does not take place in this fire department while we are waiting on the "Official reports".

Posted by Radiowave on August 11, 2007 at 10:37 p.m. (Suggest removal)

To paraphrase the late Senator Patrick Moynihan - everyone is entitled to their own opinion, no one is entitled to their own facts. I am a former FF and seeing the the pictures, videos and now the radio tapes I have an opinion, but no substantial factual basis to support it. I never said for the public to be silent (as the post above claims), only not to confuse facts for speculation. I'll wait for the experts and science to guide how best to change.

The public bears some responsibility in this tragedy. If you listen carefully to the tapes you'll hear radio transmissions that cars were running over charged fire hoses and at least one distracting 911 caller. Perhaps we should look at ourselves first - the general public, to see how we can do better during emergencies (my opinion of course).

Posted by jeffyoung007 on August 11, 2007 at 10:44 p.m. (Suggest removal)

Tape 1 was very hard to listen to, opened up a closed wound. Could things have been done differently, possibly. Is there blame to place, no. We need to learn and grow from the lessons our fallen brothers taught us.

Posted by charleytowngirl on August 11, 2007 at 10:52 p.m. (Suggest removal)

Radiowave, as a former FF such as yourself, how can you not have a "substantial factual basis" to support your own opinion. If you received proper training and education as a FF, I would think you could look at alot of things that went wrong and know for a "fact" that many things were done improperly!

I do agree with you that the public could do better during emergencies...I see people that refuse to pull over out of the way of emergency vehicles nearly everyday! But again, didn't they have the road blocked off? Isn't that the responsibility of the police department to be sure that is done? Not trying to argue with you, just stating my opinion!

Posted by MJLowery on August 11, 2007 at 11:08 p.m. (Suggest removal)

I respect the view of Chief Varella, and sincerely thank you for what you and other fellow firefighters do to protect us. I knew Mulkey personally and found it very sad to hear Chief Thomas repeatedly call out for him.

However, I must agree with Harpo as well. Much insight can be gained from the thoughts and ideas of citizens outside the fire department. An "outside" perspective can be both helpful and welcome, so long as it is contributed tactfully and with respect to a fireman's expertise and experience.

Posted by donnasharon26 on August 11, 2007 at 11:32 p.m. (Suggest removal)

To:Harpo
Since you have some much expertise, why dont your VOLUNTEER your time to teach the fire fighters the way you said it should be done. Why dont you lay off of the critisim a little. You seem to be a cold hearted person who is so bored that all have to do is blog every newspaper article. Why dont you just lay off a little, sit back and put yourself in those guys shoes or even the family members. If I was a family member of one of the FF's, my heart would actually break into millions of pieces to see the way that the comments are being posted. Especially from you, who apparently doesnt have a life.

If family members of the Fallen Fire Fighters are reading these blogs, please excuse some of the Folks who are showing any sympathy from this tragedy. May the memories held deep within your heart help soothe your soul at your time of need.

Posted by NN on August 11, 2007 at 11:35 p.m. (Suggest removal)

No one is forcing anyone to "listen to the tapes". If you want to hear them, click on them. If you don't, then leave the website and STFU.

Posted by nickiegarbeil on August 11, 2007 at 11:47 p.m. (Suggest removal)

NN,

Shut up. For once in your pathetic site hopping life, SHUT UP when it is finally appropriate. No one on this board is interested in your Jerry Springer crap. Save it for some other page. NOT this one. Have some respect. What next? How about bashing another ex-wife of the fallen, or better yet, why not the girlfriend left behind....you are pathetic, pathetic dark soul.

Donna: you aren't a family member, and you don't see the amount of mail and the phone calls I have personally received to keep this in the forefront. I could call on the men left behind from inside the department to vouch for that, but I think they have earned their silence for the time being. If they didn't want this out, they wouldn't speak through us. It isn't going away-THEY don't want it to.

Opinions are to be respected, that means even those of us who fight to keep this in the public.

Posted by jimbo200 on August 12, 2007 at 12:34 a.m. (Suggest removal)

Just to let every one whos close to this know what there in for.

My dept had 2 members die in a training fire several years ago. I had to listen to tapes, watch a video every time there was questioning. Then they finally finished the investigation and put out several NIOSH reports about it.

Finally got some closure after alittle time but it seems any time I take a tactics, training, or any other live fire classes they bring up the incident. Had a freind go to FDIC and guess what they were giving a seminar on?? We decided on day to GOOGLE our crews names for craps and ha ha's and apparnetly mine brings up a report that Colorado Fire camp published! I live in FL!!!

Just wanted to let you know that these tapes are just the beginning. Its easy to be mad at every thing that comes out and you'll just want to have every one leave it be and let it go. the plus side is that they will investigate everything, they will report every thing which is hard but we will learn a wealth of information to try to prevent it from happening again. In the last 5 years my Dept has grown in leaps and bounds as far as safety and communications go. Our response guidlines and manpower has been increased, every one has recieved great hands on RIT operations.

Wish I had some thing smart and motivational to end with but that aint my style. Our prayers are with the fallen brothers and their families.

Posted by brendabelanger on August 12, 2007 at 12:46 a.m. (Suggest removal)

I am from Charleston, SC - a graduate of Middleton High School - though I have resided in Florida these past 10 years. This tragedy has touched former classmates, friends, and the community in general and it has reached at least as far as Lutz, FL as well.

The tapes, the issues, the hoses, the radios...please keep in mind we lost friends and family here. That is what we need to focus on. We lost friends and family. We lost our firefighters. And though I now reside 8 hours away, I mourn the loss of those firefighters - and I mourn for their families.

May these brave souls rest in peace. And may God be with their families now and always.

Posted by eparnell on August 12, 2007 at 12:51 a.m. (Suggest removal)

Won't someone please give Harpo the $0.25 he/she contributes to a firefighters' salary. Better yet Harpo, why don't you take a physical, pass the exams, gear up, pack out and come fight some fire. If you aren't in the fire service and in a position to effect change, then no, you have no right to express an opinion into what should and shouldn't be done. The only right you have is to express your opinion in the voter's booth during the next election, and the Fire Chief is appointed, so you'll have to go after the mayor.

Posted by Radiowave on August 12, 2007 at 1:17 a.m. (Suggest removal)

charleytowngirl – I do respect your opinion and everyone else here and other boards discussing this tragedy. I disagree with your comment “If you received proper training and education as a FF, I would think you could look at a lot of things that went wrong and know for a "fact" that many things were done improperly!” Let me give an example, when I viewed the video of the fire and saw the booster lines (red rubber hoses to fight small trash fires) in front of the store I though (based on my training) why on earth are they using that hose on this fire? The P&C ran a story on July 15 with this opening: “When photos and video footage of the June 18 Sofa Super Store fire beamed around the world, some firefighters and fire safety experts were troubled by what they saw: small red hoses snaking through the front door of the burning furniture store.” Yet when I listened to the radio tapes this afternoon, it is clear that Chief Gavin ordered an initial “inch and a half line” into the store then soon after a “two and a half line”. The audio tape contradicts the video/photo evidence. The district fire chief from Dayton felt compelled to give his opinion about the booster lines however, “he was shocked to see them at the scene of the fire.” I respect his right to express his opinion as well, but it’s not helpful at this point until we know how all the pieces of the puzzle fit together. Taking one isolated photo/video/audio clip of the fire out of context, without any sense of the sequence of events before/after, without knowing who made the decisions, when, how, etc. and then putting that under a microscope is counter productive.

Posted by jimbo200 on August 12, 2007 at 1:25 a.m. (Suggest removal)

The first thing serious posters on this site need to do is quit commenting back to HARPO.

He is obviously a not a fire fighter commenting on things that he does not know about. IF he served in the NAVY and could extinguish a electric panel box fire with great ease good for him!

Fire scenes are far different from operating on a boat. My dept has the most updated radios and we are all trained on how to properly use them. The problem comes when they are being used on a fire scene, our trucks are very loud when operating. You place several trucks together and you cant hear a thing, thats were the yelling comes from, not being untrained. We critique all of our calls and still have a hard time hearing request and commands. Our department policy states that when we are operating the engine for morning check out that we wear ear plugs due to the high decibel that they make.

Hopefully Harpo ives in the tax area for the dept that lost the men so when they try to raise fire taxes he can right them a check. Every one wants better service but no one wants to come off cash to fund it.

As far as the Harpo is concerned he seems to be a angry egotistical person that likes to here him self talk, by arguing back with him your just fluffing the EGO. He should be ashamed to even attempt to comment back to Chief Varella, that last thing that any one tied to the Dept needs is a non fire educated person mouthing off Im sure his plate is full.

Whether posting the audio tapes is right or wrong all the preschool arguing and bickering here is only drwing attention away from the tragedy.

Posted by nickiegarbeil on August 12, 2007 at 1:52 a.m. (Suggest removal)

Sounds like a plan eparnell.First the mayor,then? Sky is the limit.The point it, transparency is a useful tool in maintaining a truthful government, on any level. There is nothing pleasant about those tapes, but a wealth of information is to be learned, by the CFD,CPD,and the citizens.Lesson to citizens? Status quo is no longer OK.For people inside the fire service, etc. to want to keep these things from the public, you somehow seem to want to place yourselves at a level of un-accountability.I am certain this is not the image or impression you want to make, but it is the appearance nonetheless.There is no enjoyment in those tapes. I knew who some of those men were, and it is the most difficult thing I have ever listened to. The tape from 7-8, I cannot complete. I stayed up all night last night sobbing, angry, disturbed, angrier, horrified, and dismayed. Some of my initial view points were not necessarily accurate, others were dead on. What did I learn from them? That there is much room for improvement, but that it is well beyond JUST the CFD.Everyone is trying to make sense of this tragedy, from the most experienced firefighter to the citizens. Working together to make a difference in memory of these men is what needs to be done.Our politics will come in the booths.Mr. Parnell, we DO have the right, same as you.EVERYONE has that right under the FOIA.People,you are not listening. WE ARE BEING ASKED BY INSIDE FIREFIGHTERS to help bring about effective change. Some of us are receiving information that we are being asked to post FOR them, because they cannot speak for themselves. What does that tell you? That this local government isn't necessarily interested in the truth, that people from within the fire department don't want things to come out,and for us to close our eyes and ears and ignore the tragedy would potentially allow them to sweep it under the rug. The investigation will deal with THIS fire,but it won't deal with the lack of protection to the men inside when practice and procedures aren't followed.Once they release their reports,they go home.Who monitors whether or not those recommendations are implemented?I am hardly expert in this field. When I post technical information, SOME of it is my own common sense, MOST of it is passed to me from inside-nope,not armchair quarterbacking after all.I'm sorry if what I feel or say is offensive to some of you. I made a promise-to firefighters, to family members, and I don't intend to go away, nor should you ask any of us to. You cannot cry on one hand that you want support from citizens, and in the next breath tell us to go away. We vote for your budgets, guys,you need us as much as we need you.With all of that said...Even with members of my own family in the local departments, I have found an even greater respect for what you do, the issues you have to deal with, and a larger sense of pride knowing that I am related to, and friends with people in the greatest brotherhood ever.

Posted by WFD_OHIO on August 12, 2007 at 2:57 a.m. (Suggest removal)

I would like to say just one thing.....Those Nine brothers of mine died in the line of duty. They died doing the job that we all love, and a job most civilians admire and admit they would never do. Those Nine firefighters died as heros. Everyone can go on and on and on about communication problems on the radio. Thats fine. It's the reality of things. Communications is always a problem. But PLEASE, DO NOT post comments on this page mocking these men. If some people forget, they saved another life. One thing i have learned from firefighters committing the ultimate sacrifice is that you take what has been provided, use it as tools to train within your department, and get on the truck and put it to use. You do it for the men that lost their lives.

THE "CHARLESTON 9" WILL NEVER BE FORGOTTEN.

To Charleston fire WFD local 204 would like express our deepest sympathy. I can't imagine losing 9 of my guys nor can i imagine the sorrow that has come with the tragedy.

God Bless and Be safe

Posted by Harpo on August 12, 2007 at 3:10 a.m. (Suggest removal)

Personal attacks in a commentary forum are
inane and non-productive. We still have those
in here whose initial reaction upon reading
something they disagree with is to attack
the poster rather than refute the post with
good, solid counter-posts. It's childish.

We're getting some very good ideas here,
some good questions and answers, but it
still only accounts for about 20% of the
content .. the rest is petty bullshirt
from malcontents who seek desperately to
control the forum's direction. "OK, I
want you and you to shutup now; I don't
like you".

If you have a problem with any post, click
on the "(Suggest removal)" hyperlink above
the post and then you can whine to the
staff about it. If you can't make productive
posts or effectively counter those you
don't like then leave the adults who can
alone.

Posted by BillyTheKid32 on August 12, 2007 at 3:58 a.m. (Suggest removal)

Joe is who he is. Nothing can change that except your vote. He is the chairman of the CWP who put in the "impact fees" that keeps buildings like the Sofa Super Store from not only having to be required to have a sprinkler system in place, but giving them an out when there was not one there.
The P&C had a story about what happened to a store in Florida, that had a sprinkler system, and the total damage was $8,000.
Joe was busy looking at the big picture to get the maximum buck for his ballpark or his other bet projects.
He should feel some guilt for what had happen and if he was a true leader he would be going through the Low Country looking to solve the problem that is still out there in large buildings.
Do you need a map?

Posted by charleytowngirl on August 12, 2007 at 8:57 a.m. (Suggest removal)

Radiowave, thank you for your response to my comment. I now have a better understanding of your initial comment and why you say you did not have substantial facts to back up your opinion. Good example you used. This round goes to you :)

Lisa

Posted by nickiegarbeil on August 12, 2007 at 9:23 a.m. (Suggest removal)

WFD,

While in principle, you are correct-these men died doing a job they loved, but once again, the time line of events speak to the contrary of their purpose inside. I admire so much the determination of firefighters...they DO perform a job that some of us did not choose. Yes, they were heroes, but the question has been and will continue to be, did they have to die at all? I don't understand that mentality-not an insult...Why do you all think that just because you strap boots and helmets on, that you have resigned yourselves to certain death? Why can't you people see that we are angry FOR you...the conditions you are forced to work in, the lack of administrative support, inadequate leadership, a failed system of communications?

Help me to understand your views while reviewing the facts here: St. Andrews men were in the rear of the building(OUTSIDE) freeing the man trapped in the room. That is the only way in and out. He was the only trapped person in that building, and from other sources in the CFD, MOST of the people on scene knew it. So...again, WHY did they have to go in? Also, by the time line, the man trapped was freed some 12 to 15 minutes BEFORE the flashover and collapse...he was safe, their job inside could have been done...there were SIXTEEN men inside that building...by that time, some were already lost...no RIT in place to go get them while they still had a chance...By the A/C's own admission, those men were inside FOR INVESTIGATIVE PURPOSES, NOT to actively participate in the rescue...

PLEASE PLEASE someone explain this away for me...they were heroes BEFORE they died, but they became victims...WHY?

Posted by eparnell on August 12, 2007 at 10:22 a.m. (Suggest removal)

I'm sure that when the reports from NIOSH, and other expert groups are released, it will be obvious what was done incorrectly and what are some things that desperately need immediate change. These people are experts and have done some research into what happened instead of just what they read in the paper and see on TV. So for us/you to even express what you think you know, is a slap in the face for the 9 of my brothers that died that day. Yes there needs to be changes, but lets see which areas need it the most when the reports come out.

Posted by WFD_OHIO on August 12, 2007 at 1:38 p.m. (Suggest removal)

Nickie i respect your comment and your anger for us. But no one forces a firefighter to their job. When people enter the fire service you take an oath. It's an oath to protect the life and property of your fellow man. It's simple. Thats what we do.

I hope that the Charleston fire department gets a break from the outsiders perspectives. Everyone is entitled to their opinions but there is a point when the subject at hand is a sensitive one. This is one of those times that the critiques at this point should be left to the professionals. CFD does not need the comments from others to fix problems. I am pretty sure that CFD has had a critique of the incident and brought up all of the points you are. lay off them for a while.

Posted by NIMS800Chief on August 12, 2007 at 2:12 p.m. (Suggest removal)

WFD_Ohio I beg to differ with you and disagree with your comments. If this was left to mayor Riley and Chief Thomas, I fear the time honored traditions will continue. What critique? I am sure it is yet to begin the meat and potatoes of it and rightfully so in order to allow a mourning process and let nerves calm down in preparation of interviews by the investigation team.

You seem to miss one point. 9 heroes perished in the line of duty during the time when the United States Fire Administration, IAFF, IAFC and local departments across this nation are focussing in a campaign for more firefighter safety. I agree they knew that they may give up their lives since this is what we signed up for as that remote possibility. Those 9 valiant heroes and those who worked with them are not to be impugned for their bravery. I too heard their last transmissions and wept for those brave souls. I felt the anguish in Chief Thomas's voice.

I for one will not stay quiet since I have seen enough video and audio to form some form of common sense that CFD and perhaps more departments need to step up their A Game! It is incumbent that when a firefighter dies on the line of duty, it is investigated internal and external to find out what went wrong, what broke, what needs fixing, and how we evaluate it for improvement. We need the outside professionals to come in an audit every piece of information, interview all who were there, view all videos and listen to all audios on this fire. Even when a firefighter dies of a heart attack in the firehouse, such as were in my case back in 2003, we were investigated internal and external to see if we knew current or past health issues, annual fitness and health screening, what training or fire service duties were performed at or prior to his untimely death. I welcomed the outside investigations and we opened our records to them.

Oh CFD will get comments so it can get fixed. What...do you think we are amateurs? We as firefighters are known for critiques albeit internal and in case external also called "networking" so we all find ways to improve and move on. Sadly it will take outsiders to fix what has been broken for a long time. I go back to the comment that their command policies are "rich in tradition" so I should back off? ICS is always improved on. I believe CFD's Bravest deserve the best and will prove to be a better department that will stand up to the challenge and relish in the opprtunities.

Posted by BattChiefNCFD on August 12, 2007 at 3:39 p.m. (Suggest removal)

In reference to my earlier post; I probably did not state clearly what was going through my mind as I typed the comment. I do not in any way begrudge any person from posting on this or any other message board. My comment was mainly directed to firefighters within the Tri-County area. When I said,

"it is my feeling that no one but our brothers
from CFD should be making comments about what
went on, changes that need to be made, and the
feelings both positive as well as negative
towards the fire department administration
and the city administration until after the
official report has been published. While many
of my brother firefighters (myself included)
certainly have questions and comments concerning
this fire, I feel they should be directed to CFD
brothers privately, and not aired in an open
format as the message boards being found on the
net."

the comments were directed toward my fellow area firefighters. Once we begin to openly question and criticize the actions taken by our brothers at CFD, we leave ourselves open for this same criticism. While it has been mentioned previously years ago many of the area departments posted on a local message board and busted alot of B*LLS with the guys from the area departments. This was all well and good for banter and at times, it was down right ugly. But for the guys in the Tri-County area to comment one way or the other about the actions taken by CFD in my opinion is irresponsible. In my opinion, it's not our place to answer on the actions taken by CFD on scene that evening. Firefighters across the US and John Q. Public certainly have a lot of questions from videos, articles, and posts; their questions should be answered by the guys in CFD and only them. If guys from the Tri-County area have questions or comments, they should direct them to the brothers at CFD privately. This way, no one can be accused of having an axe to grind or be accused of bashing Charleston. Because no matter if we want to admit it or not; we all have our own problems. That's why it is imperative for us to learn from this incident, and insure it never happens again. I hope this brings a little clarification to my earlier post. I am available for question or comment any time.

Sincerely,
Joseph A. Varella

Posted by Fire_Inspector on August 12, 2007 at 5:09 p.m. (Suggest removal)

Don't they have ANYTHING preplanned?

1) No extra alarms, each call for reinforcements is for specific units. Give me the closest engine...

2) St Andrews seems to be the only FD unit there that wasn't screaming and panicked.

3) Cheif Rusty seems to spend all his time screaming.

4) 200 pounds on a SINGEL 2.5 inch supply line? What about laying a double lines? I know little podunk VFDs that lay multiple lines. Or LDH.

5) $6000 a year for training? What is that, Rusty making a junket to Baltimore?

6) There is NO reason for the personal warning devices to be tweeting endlessly for 30 plus minutes.

7) WTF is up with that dispactcher? Sweety, lover, etc? VEry unprofessional.

8) Lots of calls "Battallion 4 to Captain smith." WTF?

9)

Posted by fyrmnjim on August 12, 2007 at 5:27 p.m. (Suggest removal)

What I find equally atrocious is the way they handled the families of the fallen. Told them to go to Co 11 and then did not have a representative there for them with answers. Also not having any means to address all the media inquires that came in all night. No PIO????

I felt real sorry for disp #7. She did the best she could given the limited information given to her.

Posted by Yolie on August 12, 2007 at 5:32 p.m. (Suggest removal)

This tradgedy is unfortunate for everyone involved. It is so easy to sit back and point the finger at one another. The fact is we cannot bring thses heroes back.

If we all sit back and think about this whole situation we may not be so judgemental. We as a nation have suffered so many horrifc tradgedies. After every single one of them we sit back and point the finger at who is the blame. This is a natural reaction. However, those of you that have never worked as part of the police,fire, emergency,military or any organization that saves lives or put their lives on the line truly don't understand.

Any person that is in a leadership position carries the weight of the world on their shoulders. One of the most important characteristics of a leader is to be able to make a decision in a split second. Guess what people? The decision may not always be the correct one, but it has to be done. We can all sit back and speculate on what we would have done, but NOONE truly knows what they would do in that type of situation. These men worked for the fire department so I'm sure they all knew that they could lose their lives doing the job that they loved. If my house was on fire, I wouldn't be standing outside checking the credentials of emergency personnel......I served 11 yrs in the military and I know what it means to make a decision and stick by the choice I made. You all must remember that these heroes have had to make quick decisions themselves a at some point during a fire and it worked out. But I'll bet if any of them were here now they would probably tell you that they would have made the same choices the Chief had to make during the fatal fire.

Posted by fyrmnjim on August 12, 2007 at 6:12 p.m. (Suggest removal)

Yolie, Tell me your kidding!

Yes, we are always looking for some expplaination when a tragedy occurs. But, only an extreme narcossist would say he would do the same thing over again after having 9 men die under his watch.

Have you ever heard the saying : if you can't take the heat....? Well, how about this saying: If you can't cook, you have no buisness being the head chef...or chief!!!!

After all that I have read, heard, and seen I'm convinced that the CFD is stuck in the 1970's both mentally and technologically.

Posted by nickiegarbeil on August 12, 2007 at 8:05 p.m. (Suggest removal)

Mr. Parnell,

You have NO idea what is in my mind and what my motivations are. For you to claim I am slapping the face of the fallen, you can't be further from the truth.

In fact, I feel quite the opposite..men like you, who want those of us advocating for the truth and for change, are the one's slapping these poor men in the face. I think they would WANT the truth out, to fix it..to protect their brothers left behind EVERYWHERE.

You have no idea what research I have or have not completed (and I have done a lot-still a lot more to do). I clarify my views, verify them for accuracy, and yes, while I occasionally make a mistake-mostly terminology-I know what the hell I am saying.

I am not an idiot, Mr. Parnell. I am very well educated, have the capacity to read the same NIMS course that it seems CFD allows to be cheated on...Yes, Mr. Parnell, I am in the middle of taking NIMS myself...to better educate MYSELF to the causes, the issues you face, and to better give myself an idea of HOW to fix them through demands to city council and the mayors office.

What I am doing is demanding answers from the Chief, the Mayor, City Council...they owe these men's families , their brothers, and the community an explanation. If you find what we are doing offensive, then you aren't listening to what we are saying...

Posted by nickiegarbeil on August 12, 2007 at 8:52 p.m. (Suggest removal)

WFD,

You are correct...you know there are risks to the job...BUT, that doesn't mean you aren't owed as much protection as feasible...example...Do you wear a helmet? Coat? Gloves? Boots? SCBA? Why? I mean, let's use your viewpoint for a moment...you KNOW when you join the FD you are taking a risk...why bother protecting yourselves at all?

BECAUSE we can! Simply...

Let's look at it another way....If we use your attitude(viewpoint), we run out of men willing to volunteer their lives...bluntly, and no offense intended: dead firefighters can't save anyone anymore...the goal? Keep you alive so we have people to rescue those in need.

Did that make any sense?

You are still heroes, you don't NEED to die to prove it..if we analyze ALL LODD's you will see that MOST (after cardiovascular disease related deaths) firefighter deaths (active, on scene incidents) are caused by mistakes made at some level at the scene, in policy, procedure, etc...the true purpose of reviewing these and other LODD's is to honor the men the best way we can:preventing more of the same. You call it a slap in the face, I call it protecting the lives of firefighters.

Posted by nickiegarbeil on August 12, 2007 at 9:02 p.m. (Suggest removal)

NimsChief and BattChief;

Thank you...please understand...I have no sick need to fill...I NEED to help prevent this from ever happening again. For my own sister, my cousin, my friends, and the men and women remaining in the fire service everywhere.

Posted by nickiegarbeil on August 12, 2007 at 9:04 p.m. (Suggest removal)

Fire Inspector,

I have been given information from within the department and families that pre-plan on buildings are done(at least this one within the last year), and not reviewed with firefighters...cannot confirm this, if someone inside has this information, please post or email so I can pass it on.

Posted by charleytowngirl on August 12, 2007 at 9:29 p.m. (Suggest removal)

Yolie: Here are your words from a post above, "If we all sit back and think about this whole situation we may not be so judgemental."

Did you think about your own words before you posted your comments to the ex-wife of one of these 9 men on another message board? Did you consider what SHE may be going through before you offered up your view point and your thoughts on her personal situation?

Just wondering........

Posted by Yolie on August 12, 2007 at 10:59 p.m. (Suggest removal)

charleytowngirl- Yes I did think about what she was going through. I believe I made that clear in my submission. However, I felt as though she is an emotional state, and some of her feelings may have been overwhemingly biased.

I was not nasty and cruel towards her in no way, shape or form. I just wanted her to go back and read what she had said after she had some time to think about it.

By the way, She responded to me in a personal email and I got to see her viewpoint in a different light too. Thanks for your concern.......

Posted by s283r on August 12, 2007 at 11:10 p.m. (Suggest removal)

My opinion of the audio tapes being released doesn't matter, the families wishes are the only thing that matters here! As for the opinions of how the fire was handled, that fire was fought by a TOP SHELF CLASS 1 ISO FIRE DEPARTMENT! How do I know this,because I worked for the Charleston Fire Department. I don't think an opinion much less a negative opinion from somebody that has no clue should be posted. Harpo, do you have a clue? No not Navy experience! What does serving in the Navy have to do with structural firefighting? For your information Harpo when a brother is lost in a burning building things tend to get intense on the radio no matter how professional you are, and yes your voice will tend to raise a bit. Let's be for real, do you think the fact that you fought a fire ONCE on a submarine entitles you to your opinion of how this fire was fought? Dont forget everytime you make those negative comments of how the CFD handled this fire you are disrespecting those 9 brothers because they are and always will be part of the CFD, and most of all you are disrespecting their families. STICK WITH SUBMARINES!!

SCOTT ROLAND

Posted by nickiegarbeil on August 12, 2007 at 11:16 p.m. (Suggest removal)

Yolie,

I bet you they wouldn't agree with your point that they would make the same decision...

Not if they had the information they needed, and weren't given...

They wanted to fight fires...they got a rush from it...most FF do...but they didn't want to die, and given the events and the facts, they would have chosen life, their friends, and most of all their families. That much I can assure you.

Posted by s283r on August 12, 2007 at 11:22 p.m. (Suggest removal)

IF EVERYONE WITH THE NEGATIVE COMMENTS TRULY BELIEVES IN WHAT YOU ARE POSTING THEN SIGN YOUR FULL NAME!

SCOTT ROLAND

Posted by nickiegarbeil on August 12, 2007 at 11:47 p.m. (Suggest removal)

S283r,

OK, Genius...let's analyze...Navy experience with firefighting...what the hell happens when a ship or sub catches on fire? A HAZMAT nightmare, first off...a FIREFIGHTER'S nightmare second. The firepower held on both surface and Subs are enough to blow entire cities to kingdom come. I am ex Navy-active duty...I know...second, who supplies them with extra firefighting power when their fire is so bad? NO ONE...It's DO OR DIE. No extra hoses, no extra department hands...either put out the fire, or face sure death, either by fire, smoke, or water when you sink. Have you ever met men that survived a submarine fire? USS BONEFISH, 1988...I did. Their scars, their grief, etc. They lost two men that day and almost lost an entire crew...there is NO escaping a fire on board a ship or sub. Try fighting a structure fire standing on your knees in a space no bigger than your current closet...Don't pretend that civilian firefighters are the only one's who know anything. Military firefighters are the same brotherhood. Grow up, this isn't a competition between Military and Civilian firefighters.

For YOUR information, there are plenty of other departments out there that are subject to the freedom of information act, enabling their tapes to be heard by ANYONE. Shall we see what the tapes from Memphis and Hackensack sound like? Same situation, same bad outcome, AND THEY FOUND FAULT WITH DEPARTMENTAL PROCESSES...Let's listen...Jim, can you pull archives from Pat's LODD? Let's listen to Dayton Fire Department, shall we? How about Charlotte...anyone here from Charlotte? Wait...Better yet...Los Angeles...anyone? Bring it on guys...

It is the JOB of the senior officer on scene to have COMPLETE CONTROL of the scene. His radio, his dispatch, his responding trucks, his men on scene and off duty. If you cannot DO the job, don't TAKE the job. With that being said, things go wrong, no fire is by the book, but ACKNOWLEDGE the mistakes, and LEARN from them, NEVER repeat them. THIS department is refusing to do that unless WE force their hand.

Don't like it? TOUGH. You WERE CFD...you are not anymore. You made your choice, you left your brothers, so did your brother, Bruce, now WE are protecting them, Mr. Roland. We are much more intelligent than your average bear, Scott...You and your brother were Rusty Ranger's then, and apparently can't get past that. Save it. You didn't see the issues then, you won't see them now!

Posted by nickiegarbeil on August 12, 2007 at 11:49 p.m. (Suggest removal)

PS...I ALREADY SIGNED MY FULL NAME

I DONT WORK FOR RUSTY, SCOTT...I CANNOT BE INTIMIDATED.

Stop yelling you sound foolish

Posted by nickiegarbeil on August 13, 2007 at 1:41 a.m. (Suggest removal)

Everyone:

Just so my point is clear for those that do not understand. You will probably pay heck trying to find a tape of a department with that much chaos on it. Most departments, like Dayton, Charlotte, etc. that have better radio control, communications, and cross agency cooperation. My point was to show that we HAVE the right to listen to tapes everywhere and make COMMUNICATION comparisons.

Every department has "the big one" in their fire notches. There are departments, such as Dayton, that are comparable in size to Charleston, try Toledo, Oh...pick any city, any state. I am using Dayton, because I can readily verify the sources. We can try to find communication tapes from similar fires around the country, do they all sound as this one? Fair bet is no, they don't...

Now...communication is only PART of the problem here. You have good radios, good, what next? Agency cooperation..police, neighboring FD's, rules of engagement, training for LARGE fires and tragedies as this(hurricanes, fires, earthquakes, etc). Training for ALL emergency personnel, INCLUDING dispatch. Where is the PR person??? Why is dispatch answering media questions, chatting with reporters?

There are literally hundreds of cities to compare with..LEARNING TOOLS.. not competition. NOT armchair quarterbacking...COMMON SENSE.

Posted by nickiegarbeil on August 13, 2007 at 3:41 a.m. (Suggest removal)

BattChiefNCFD:

No offense taken. PLEASE read your email

Posted by mystery64 on August 13, 2007 at 8:20 a.m. (Suggest removal)

I know I am going to get bashed for this, but I am going to say what ALOT of people are wondering but just aren't saying - when are we going to raise money for our fallen soldiers? $6 MILLION raised for 9 fire fighters???

Posted by Yolie on August 13, 2007 at 9:10 a.m. (Suggest removal)

nickiegarbeil and fyrmnjim-
Of course I know they wouldn't have made the same decisions if lives were lost. We are looking at the decisions in hindsight. I am speaking about the commands given prior to any lives being lost. I really don't believe those guys were sent into the fire to be killed. If that was the case it would be considered "premeditated murder". Some of the comments made on this forum seem to suggest that very same thing. I believe many things contributed to this horrific tradgedy. I'm sure if anyone involved in this could go back and replay that day...they surely would. I'm sure the owner of the store wish that it was consrtucted more carefully, and I'm sure the fire departments wishes that they were more equip to deal with the fire that fatal day.

I truly believe that changes will come about after this tradgedy. We all need to believe that there is hope. ....I choose to be optimistic not pessimistic ....

Posted by vesta on August 13, 2007 at noon (Suggest removal)

Yolie: No, it was not "premeditated murder". There was, however, negligence. There was negligence in not being up to standards in a number of areas. In the face of the number of changes in building structures now as opposed to ten years ago, in materials used in fabrics now as opposed to ten years ago, in using hoses that are now used to fight trash and garden fires instead of hoses that fight big fires and then saying that he wouldn't change a thing is negligence. You have got to keep up with changes in ANY work force environment. To not do so at the least may result in losing business. In the fire department, unfortunately, it means loss of lives, either ffs or civilians.

Posted by nickiegarbeil on August 13, 2007 at 1:24 p.m. (Suggest removal)

Yolie,

I see you have a flare for the dramatics, a bit. NO ONE here has said Rusty is a murderer. Quit the contrary. I fully believe Rusty never wanted this to occur, for various reasons: he didn't want men to die, and he didn't want the black mark on his record of perfection. What we are believing is that he was negligent in this failure to maintain compliance within HIS department. You can't blown the horn without having to carry it through.

Where has anyone in the upper crust of the department or the city expressed that they would have done things differently? None that I have seen. In fact, Rusty made the comment that he would do the SAME things as he did that night. These men deserve for them to admit their fault and then truly fix it. From the top down. There IS hope, but it will take MUCH change, and in my own opinion, as well as others, the current leaders are not the men for the job. There is NO room for this much nepotism, it isn't safe, and it isn't efficient.

Posted by s283r on August 13, 2007 at 1:35 p.m. (Suggest removal)

Nickiegarbeil:
Once again you fought ONE fire on a submarine. Boy that's some serious credential's. Key word in your comment... ONCE!
So you say YOU are protecting the Charleston firefighters now huh? I hate to tell you but hideing behind a computer isn't keeping them safe submarine girl! Unless you are by their side while fighting fires or outside in command you are not protecting them. Besides you don't have what it takes. As for your comment about how difficult it would be to find audio tapes of a fire that sounded chaotic as this one you are right...only because there has only been a couple with that many firefighters missing in the past 35 years. Sure a routine fire sounds great on the radio, but this wasn't routine. Yes my brother and I moved on submarine girl but we were right by the City firefighters sides for all those funerals...where were you? You also said that the CFD isn't recognizing the need for improvement...WRONG! It's being worked on as we speak. So the next time you feel that having a relative as a firefighter entitles you to your negative comments think again. YOU ARE NOT HELPING ANYONE NAVY GIRL!

Posted by Dog_Vomit on August 13, 2007 at 1:56 p.m. (Suggest removal)

Audio clip "K" is the same clip as audio clip "J", and audio clips G & H are not functioning.

Posted by nickiegarbeil on August 13, 2007 at 2:22 p.m. (Suggest removal)

Scott,

I am far from hiding behind my computer, and I am MUCH closer to the situation than YOU are. You're a ranger, and your motivations are to protect your man. Now, since you are incapable of reading clearly, I was defending HARPO, as the submariner, I was never on a sub.

Second, the REASON the city is acting on ANYTHING is because of our efforts within the general public. City Council members are also helping us, as are many many more. I don't see an overwhelming push to shut us up...In fact, YOU and BASS are the main two...TWO my friend..TWO vs MANY.

For your information, I was also at the funerals. You might want to verify your information BEFORE you open your flap. I quite enjoy you running your mouths frankly, because with all the public attention we have produced, you all are playing right into what we have said all along. LOL YOU are our greatest asset Mr Rowland. A ranger with ZERO REAL input. Never underestimate the power of the public eye, my friend...LOL

This fire COULD have been routine, Scott...it was poor leadership and a lack of compliance that led it astray. And there have absolutely only been a couple of fires where this many men have died...why? BECAUSE MOST DEPARTMENT LEADERS ARE TRAINED BETTER THAN THAT, AND KNOW IT IS NOT PROTOCOL!!!

Now, put your big boy britches on and face the music.

NICKIE GARBEIL-this would be my REAL NAME...no hiding here, and I have MANY relatives in the fire service, not just one.

Posted by s283r on August 13, 2007 at 2:39 p.m. (Suggest removal)

Nicki:
My first comment was directed to Harpo not you, now because you have such a big mouth you replied to the comment I had for Harpo and created a bit of confusion. I stand by what I said to Harpo and I stand by what I said to you. CLUELESS AND NO CREDENTIALS!! You couldn't shine my shoes little girl!!! Now please stop talking about something you have no clue about

Posted by THISMUSTSTOP on August 13, 2007 at 2:54 p.m. (Suggest removal)

s283r,
You can't tell me that this is the only fire that you've heard at the CFD that sounded out of control. You can't. They all sound just like this. I was there and I can't understand most of what is being said that first hour. The yelling sounds sad and upset (once they actually realized it ((took way to long to realize too)) ) but it's still out of control. You don't get TOP SHELF ISO CLASS 1 status by sticking your head in the sand. I only know of one animal that does this and we all make fun of them at the zoo. We've known that this ISO CLASS 1 thing was a joke, and now the whole country knows! Thanks to the P & C we know that the department cheats, you think they cheated for the CLASS 1?

I'm over being mad. I'm just sad now and probably will be for some time. Two months is long enough for me, I'm going to get back to my family now. I'm sure they miss their Daddy.

I'm out!

P.S. I love all of you guys no matter how much I hate what happened and who is responsible. Hopefully there will be a new Chief with a brain in Charleston soon.

Posted by nickiegarbeil on August 13, 2007 at 3:57 p.m. (Suggest removal)

Scott, now only can I out think you, but I out AGE you son...so that makes the tables a bit turned...YOU couldn't shine MINE. You want me to shut up? Prove me wrong, Scott...you can't, because the inside is speaking out, through me, through others...and you are helpless to control them or me. I told you in my first post, I am not, nor will I be, intimidated.
You know, I TRULY believe that your anger is misplace anger that is REALLY guilt. You left your brothers, Scott, and you were complacent in the status quo. Yes, Scott, by saying nothing and kissing butt, you allowed the inept training and the lack of compliance within the department to lead to this tragedy. How many backs did you stab to get your Ranger badge?

Posted by oldcap on August 13, 2007 at 4:55 p.m. (Suggest removal)

Scott, I liked you boy. You were all right.

But brother, you are way out here. You want people to sign their names. You know the job Scott. Don't be ridiculous.

Plus, in another two or three months, you'll see all of us anyway. It'll be on the news. Talking about the old chief.

He's gone. Live with it.

Posted by oldcap on August 13, 2007 at 4:56 p.m. (Suggest removal)

By him I mean your idol, Rusty.

Posted by s283r on August 13, 2007 at 5:57 p.m. (Suggest removal)

I stand by what I said and feel that only two people have room to talk, Charleston firefighters and the loved ones left behind. Oldcap you are obviously a firefighter with the city and I respect your opinion, you earned it. Navy girl I will not reply to any of your meaningless comments anymore, you are not worth my time and you sure haven't fought a fire before...so leave this up to your family. And believe me I found out what you know about this subject...NOTHING! To everyone, mistakes are made at 90% of fires that a firefighter dies and their is always room for improvement, but all the negative comments won't change a thing. There is critisism and there is consrtuctive critisism...we all know what this is. Changes will be made for the better because that's what the fire service is about, so for all of you that put this evil energy to meaningless use save it for church and pray for the loved ones left behind and the Charleston firefighter's still with us

Posted by nickiegarbeil on August 13, 2007 at 6:10 p.m. (Suggest removal)

Well, by your post, you DON'T know who I am or anything about me...That's good, always better to have the upper hand.

I don't know what REAL firefighters know, but I DO know more about the lies and deceit than you are willing to admit. Most of what I know is old fashion common sense, the rest is TAUGHT to me by old firefighters, current firefighters, both in and away from CFD, and family members of FF...never claimed to be an expert, my JOB is to get the messages from inside out to the public...

Mistakes are acceptable IF you admit them. It wasn't done, and THAT is what angers me personally.

As for not responding, thank you...you had already reached the level of FLY to me, just like the last Ranger that wanted to fight, and I had already decided not to respond to you again as well...However, I HAVE to have the last word...it's a woman thing..

WE will make changes, just sit back and watch for the fireworks...you can apologize to all of the fine citizens later while you wipe the crow from your face. Don't bother with me, please, I don't need it.

As for the families, they know, from my posting history that what I do is for their loved ones,they KNOW I won't let their loved one's death go without some accountability.

Posted by BattChiefNCFD on August 13, 2007 at 9:41 p.m. (Suggest removal)

I don't know what information people are getting concerning Scott Roland, but if he was considered a Rusty Ranger for being a Hell-of-a-firefighter, then that makes me a Rusty Ranger too. Scott and Bruce both worked for me for almost 4 years, and there are not too many people that I can think of that I'd want beside me on the line when the Sh*t hits the fan. I understand Scott's anger, and he is entitled to his opinion whether it goes with or against the crowd. But for people to criticize his knowledge, skill, or ability to speak as a brother honestly don't know squat. Don't be drawn in by all the second hand hearsay. Yes, Scotty was well liked by Chief Rusty, but to call him a kiss ass, or a Ranger is way off the mark. Believe me, Scotty is his own man, and will kiss no one's ass for anything. For anyone who has never been on the job, you truly cannot comment on the ability of someone you don't know, or have never worked with, no matter what someone else says about the individual. Scotty has almost 20 years in the fire service and works for one of the busiest engine companies in FDNY; his credentials speak for themselves. I know of at least 3 occassions where Scotty, Bruce, and others caught a flight at the last minute to attend funerals of fellow brothers who passed, so to question whether he is not close to members of CFD because he now works for FDNY is off-base. I can assure you that Scotty is not the type to stab a brother in the back. I don't agree with all of his opinions, but I certainly do respect his point of view. These guys are my boys, and as I stated earlier, after 22 years on the job, there's not too many people I would rather have in a fox-hole with me when things go bad.

Joseph A. Varella

Posted by nickiegarbeil on August 13, 2007 at 10:34 p.m. (Suggest removal)

Chief,

With all do respect, SCOTT attacked ME first. My intelligence, my opinion and my drive to bring the truth and understanding to the people of this community. He was degrading, disrespectful and provided NO information to the contrary, other than to say Rusty is great. Having his opinion is one thing, to attack me, insinuating that I know nothing, and have no right to question is absurd. I wasn't fed information about them, I didn't need any.

I put myself out here for the cause of firefighters in state and throughout the entire US...pushing this cause into the forefront of people's views, so that no one has to die like this again. On one hand, Chief, you quietly in private, tell me that I am doing a good job, that you respect my efforts for the firemen, then turn on a dime when I slap your brothers mouth for being a disrespectful jacka$$.

I have valid ideas, and am willing to put myself out there for the good of the firefighters. I can walk away from this fight at any moment if that is TRULY what the men of CFD want me to do. Send me the emails, the regulars, whomever...I'll take a poll, you want to fight this fight on your own? So be it...Fend for yourselves, if you wish...I will cancel my meetings scheduled, throw away my notes from countless phone calls...after all, what is MY benefit? NOT ONE FRIGGIN THING. NOT ONE. Other than I wish to ensure that no family, and no firefighters ever have to go through this again.

When there is no one fighting for their cause gentlemen, they can come to YOU, the named men who wanted me to shut up..I am intimidated by no one, and disrespected by no one especially when what I am doing is to protect YOUR brothers.

I didn't say he didn't care, I said he left the department, the problems. I am angry and sick and tired of people saying one thing in private and in public covering their brothers tail end. What's it going to be gentlemen?

How noble they went to funerals, so did I...many of us did. But I and others, took on the fight to protect the rest of the men down here when the rest of you STAND IDLE.

Like me or not, I AM being heard, you want the policies and procedures to change? THEN LET ME DO MY JOB!!!

You don't like me? SO what. I am doing a hell of a lot more than most of you are willing to do, and I am NOT alone. I can say that while they watch you all attack me, they are having second thought of getting involved. No one wants to help out when they are getting shot at.

Your choice gentlemen...You going to pick up my slack when I walk away? I doubt it.

Posted by bjp99 on August 14, 2007 at 12:11 a.m. (Suggest removal)

I don't know if anyone noticed, but there are a lot of times missing on the tapes. Not only that, a lot of the tapes are repeated throughout the conversation.

I also want to say I thought the dispatcher did a great job with the information she was given.

Also, I thought the Fox News Reporter was quite rude in the early morning calls. She was more worried about getting the story vs. the feelings of the families. Ugh

Posted by charleytowngirl on August 14, 2007 at 12:28 a.m. (Suggest removal)

Like it or not, Nickie's got heart!

She offered herself up for CFD FF that can't speak out publicly for fear of retribution as a means for getting the word out to the public of what THEIR views are on the way the department is run.

She has written countless emails and letters to public officials. She has taken it upon herself to talk with people in the fire service to learn and try to understand the job. Alot of what we have all read, seen, listened to is a matter of common sense to the layperson, but she has gone beyond that. She doesn't do it for the fun of it, she does it because she believes that no other FF should die in the line of duty because this fire department refuses to change and to use current tried and true methods for fighting fires. We all know the problems that have been discussed about this fire dept. Even some of you career chiefs, firefighters, etc have weighed in on how the department is run.

Why can't you people see what is happening? Everyone screams, wait on the reports, wait on the reports. Those reports will take MONTHS! It's been nearly two months and nothing has changed in the department according to the things I have read, both in the paper, on this message board and on other FF websites. Changes, no matter how small, can't afford to wait!

I wish I had the guts myself to stand up the way she has. I'll feel terribly guilty in anyone else loses their life while I stand by and keep quiet.

Posted by oldcap on August 14, 2007 at 8:18 a.m. (Suggest removal)

Scott was a good boy on the job here. But he's off the mark by a good mile and a half. Sure, he has a right to be angry and to post but he wasn't there. Like the other kid he's a "used to" not a current firefighter. He's speaking emotionally, and that's fine, but Scott is off the mark.

Posted by Radiowave on August 14, 2007 at 8:58 a.m. (Suggest removal)

I appreciate and support nickiegarbeil and charleytowngirl passion and continued efforts. I am concerned that doing something, anything right now without an overall game plan how to sustain continuing progress in the months and years ahead will hurt, not help the situation. Can we as a community begin to reach consensus what needs to change – for example better training, new equipment, more effective radio communications, improved incident command, increasing cooperation with other departments, etc. Many of these will have substantial costs, others will require significant political lead